Is Blizzard trying to destroy mythic raiding guilds?

[MidnyteTV]

I don't think they're doing it on purpose. But they certainly are making organized raiding guilds obsolete with their stupid decisions as of late.

The whole M+ thing really grinds my gears because the best gear should come from raiding.

And let's not get started about personal loot. That decision alone make me quit being a GM/RL and I haven't raided in a serious raiding guild since.

So to answer your question, I don't think they're doing anything "intentionally" to kill mythic guilds, but I think they think they'll just survive (most wont).

[Exkrementor]

Let me ask you... are you looking for a discussion, or are you looking for an echo chamber... because watching you slap back at anyone and everyone that disagress with you makes me think that the latter is exactly what you are after.

I mean that is basically the definition of discussion. People disagreeing with each other.

You didn't go back to ulduar for JUST the healer legendary. You didn't need that throughput. Raw stat differences made old set bonuses irrelevant. A single item for a single person did not make the whole raid go back a tier or two to farm it. People made their raiders farm the mop cloak on their own in lfr. Unless your group is stacking like 6 mages and warlocks you did not go back to firelands for just the staff you got it when it was current.

Again, One item for one person doesn't make raid groups go back a tier to farm it.

Yes you did.

You farmed the firelands staff for every caster in your roster because it was BIS. You did farm the Elisande trinket for your warriors because it was BIS. And you also farmed old set bonuses for some classes, feral 2pc Tier 4 is a good example because it was better than anything you could get in BC. Ibet some dudes were still faming Thunderfury in BC because it was duch an op item for tanking and with threat still mattering in BC it would have been worthwhile. You may have not done this in your official raid time but that was never the point.

How is this any different from any other tier?

Come on, read the thread man. The difference is that in older tiers you could farm gear for the next tier. This is completely negated because the ilvl increase in the next tier is so massive that everything you do now is pointless.

[TwoMana]

Come on, read the thread man. The difference is that in older tiers you could farm gear for the next tier. This is completely negated because the ilvl increase in the next tier is so massive that everything you do now is pointless.

But it's not?
People with Mythic farmed gear are much more prepared to next tier than people with Heroic farmed gear.

[Exkrementor]

But it's not?
People with Mythic farmed gear are much more prepared to next tier than people with Heroic farmed gear.

Yeah if they are doing nothing in the next season. If both people are grinding +10 keys in the next season then they are on the same gear level. You cant even argue that mythic raiders have better trinkets or something because you can get max forges on heroic or normal.

[huth]

You cant even argue that mythic raiders have better trinkets or something because you can get max forges on heroic or normal.

Yes, you can, because the chances of actually getting those are too low to matter.

[Relapses]

The problem is that raiding being the only reason for playing wow is stupid.

That's why so many people quit, that's why many more prefer classic because it's not about raiding. Blizzards focus on raiding has gotten worse and worse, every expansion is a race to raid to kill the next boss, then when that wasn't enough they added a gazillion levels of raid difficulty and it still sucks.

Blizzard needs to get off the raiding crutch and focus on the RPG aspect of "World" of warcraft.

There's a reason WoW has a focus on raiding. It's the one thing that WoW does which sets it apart from every other MMO out there. I can see your pitch going over really well in an investor meeting, "Okay guys, what if we stopped doing things that make us unique and instead become just like every other MMO on the market?!"

[TwoMana]

If both people are grinding +10 keys in the next season then they are on the same gear level.

Yeah, if both run the same content for the entire season, then both end up with with similar gear. How is that controversial?

[Exkrementor]

Yes, you can, because the chances of actually getting those are too low to matter.

Too low? Have you been raiding since Legion, dude? It happens all the time.

Yeah, if both run the same content for the entire season, then both end up with with similar gear. How is that controversial?

You are intentionally misunderstanding what I am saying. I said your gear will be virtually the same if you run a few +10 keys in the first week of the new season no matter if you are a mythic or a heroic/normal raider. Its a complete gear reset where in older expansions you could farm mythic gear and be already geared up for the new raid. But now the ilvl jumps are so high that your old mythic gear is worse than gear from a new +6 key.

[CrawlFromThePit]

So for raiding guilds which have already cleared the raid there is no point in raiding anymore.
The gear you get in EP is useless with the next raid because the next season of m+ gear will have an ilvl of 460+, azshara drops no mount and the raid and classes are not that fun to justify raiding every week for the next 3-4 months.

The question is: Are raiding guilds forced to either suffer through the next months or to risk a guild disbandment? Because we all know that there are some players who will never come back online if they stay offline for too long.

Half serious question that is.

Also you may think things like: "nobody is forcing you to play" or "Lol, my ret pally is super fun to me."
If this is the case I kindly ask you to go to the next thread. This is about mythic raiding and if you dont understand the basic rules of it then what are you doing here?

No they are not. It's a video game, you beat it and then you move on. It's not a life style, you're not supposed to do it constantly every single day. Just like any other game it's perfectly normal and actually EXPECTED to stop playing it.

You sound like a kid who just devoured 5 gallons of ice cream, it's enough now, digest it, go play outside, you'll get more another day.

[Exkrementor]

No they are not. It's a video game, you beat it and then you move on. It's not a life style, you're not supposed to do it constantly every single day. Just like any other game it's perfectly normal and actually EXPECTED to stop playing it.

You sound like a kid who just devoured 5 gallons of ice cream, it's enough now, digest it, go play outside, you'll get more another day.

So you have never had a guild or raided in any organized form. OK, thats fine.
I am not shaming you or something but just read the last part of that post you quoted from me.

[toffmcsoft]

So, if raiding is the only reason you're playing wow - then yes welcome to raid logging and free loot.
That's what's great about Classic wow, there's so much more to do then just Raid Log - especially with raids having 1 tier and being easy content. The game isn't focused on end game raiding.

[CrawlFromThePit]

So you have never had a guild or raided in any organized form. OK, thats fine.

Prove it instead of assuming it.

I am not shaming you or something but just read the last part of that post you quoted from me.

I read it, now explain why I should care about your demand? I demanded many times that people stop crying on the forums, yet here we are, swimming in your tears. Go blog that crap on your facebook wall where your friends and family can offer thoughts and payers while they probably care even less than we do.

[Kauko]

You do realize that it is very hard to design a game for the 1% of player base? You do know that if they design the game for that 1%, the 99% of players will just give up or ddos the forums with whining? So be happy that there is still so much to do in this game as it is. BECAUSE its more than enough!

[Exkrementor]

Prove it instead of assuming it.

I dont need to. You already did. Thinking that you can drop out of your raid and come back whenever you want? Sure that is how organized guilds work mate.

I read it, now explain why I should care about your demand? I demanded many times that people stop crying on the forums, yet here we are, swimming in your tears. Go blog that crap on your facebook wall where your friends and family can offer thoughts and payers while they probably care even less than we do.

So you dont like people making threads in this forum? Why are you reading it then? Why would you do something that you dont like? Is that some kind of masochism thing? And to be fair, mmo-champion is the best way to write a bunch of crap that nobody cares about. As you can see in this thread a lot of people are just trying to start some shit with stupid insults. I mean who am I telling that, right?

[Torvald]

You know, with all the talk about Wrath, I've always felt like Wrath was the hardest expansion to judge how things were actually landing in the gameplay department. I know, I know.... a lot of people think of lore and laugh at the idea it makes a big impact, but for Wrath, I feel like it really did. Not because Wrath of the Lich King was particularly great in its own right at telling a story, but because it was coasting on everything the RTS had set up as a climactic conclusion.

All gameplay considerations aside, I think the expansion dealing with Arthas carried an emotional investment from lots of gamers that Deathwing in Cataclysm just was not remotely a match for. Legion was the next time I think they matched that level of lore investment, and they only did it by using everything they had left in the lore department. Not that gameplay changes weren't the biggest factor, but there are a lot of people who come back into the game, and a lot of people who leave, that make their decision about a WoW expansion based on nothing more than how much the theme of it grabs them.

It's also hard when talking about mythic raiding to draw analogies to raiding pre-WoD without acknowledging the elephant in the room of the change in logistics needed by guilds. Up until MoP ended, the hardest difficulty, with the top rewards, was accessible by a group of 10 players working together. Now you need 20 people. That's had some really big effects, not least of which is how it creates a really different experience of mythic raiding on different servers. The medium and low population servers struggle more and more to field mythic raids, some actually die out entirely, and the population of players still into mythic raiding slowly congeals more and more onto a handful of high population servers.

In terms of destroying mythic guilds, probably the biggest chunk of destruction arises from medium and low pop servers, and the main culprit has less to do with any recent gameplay changes, and more to do with Blizzard's administrative neglect of their "Connected Realm" tech to connect up those servers to match the healthiest mythic raiding servers.

[Marrilaife]

Now you noticed, OP? The push for pugging tools and removal of master loot a few years ago weren't a dead giveaway for you already? Tuning mythic raids for top 100 guild and burning out mythic raiders with AP / augment runes / legion legendaries and now essences and benthic just so they can hope to have a shot at an endboss? Putting more spotlight on content like m+? Since end of WOD I've been in 5 guilds and by now, they're all disbanded / stopped raiding.

I've happily "raid logged" since wotlk until WOD and so did majority of people I raided with, but Blizzard went on a crusade to destroy that playstyle because apparently paying a monthly sub to spend 9-16h per week raiding wasn't good enough for them, they were desperate to drag players into grinding their stupid world quests, islands and whatever other braindead content that imo should only give cosmetics, gold and rewards irrelevant for raiding.

Basically they looked at the raiders who were happy paying subs and playing the game and said "let's make them hate the game instead".

People wonder why classic is such a success, but guess what, there's no AP grinds, no world quests, no "I dropped this green from grinding bear's asses and it wtforged to be better than raid gear", people say it's about the journey not the destination, but if you care about the destination, it's clear - the end game lies in either raiding or grinding to High Warlord / Grand Marshal. You might never reach there and never even care, but the path is paved there in front of you.

Meanwhile retail raiding is stripped of everything that made it "the ultimate goal" in the past, it's also not fun because usually the way to "solve" mythic raiding is not through more skill or more gear but more class stacking. Take example: queen Azshara's warcraft logs statistics for healers:
disc priests - 312
holy paladins - 288
other 4 healer specs combined - 234
tanks even worse:
brm monks - 356
ALL other 5 tanks combined - 195
And just to say it, it's usually the same specs providing unfair advantage and the same classes being shafted (tell me last time feral druid or enha shaman was fotm for mythic raiding).

Basically to kill end bosses with non-fotm classes you often have to wait 4+ months for heavy nerfs and most guilds that are capable of killing it earlier will just pressure their members to reroll to whatever is fotm. The idea of "play what you like and what you're best at" is dead and buried.

Participation rates in top levels of raiding also went down since the removal of 10 man, majority of servers and often even whole faction cannot sustain a raiding pool in a region. So often on top of rerolling fotm you also need to transfer / faction change into one of the 5 or so "chosen" servers that are supporting mythic raiding structure.

Top level of raiding already had barriers to entry (major one being time investment and requirement of regular time frame, so no shift work schedules etc.), but Blizzard seems to add more barriers and most of them having nothing to do with player skill.

[CrawlFromThePit]

I dont need to. You already did. Thinking that you can drop out of your raid and come back whenever you want? Sure that is how organized guilds work mate.



So you dont like people making threads in this forum? Why are you reading it then? Why would you do something that you dont like? Is that some kind of masochism thing? And to be fair, mmo-champion is the best way to write a bunch of crap that nobody cares about. As you can see in this thread a lot of people are just trying to start some shit with stupid insults. I mean who am I telling that, right?

Never said you can drop out of a raid and come back whenever you want. You're saying there's no reason to said mythic after some point, then that should gold true for everyone. That means your entire raid should take a break, not just you, that way you don't lost your spot, right? If other continue raiding then it means your claim that there's no reason to run mythic raids after some point is proved wrong, it means some people still have fun doing even without rewards, or it means your only motivation is reward, not gameplay, in both cases it becomes a YOU problem and has nothing to do with Blizzard or suggesting they are trying to kill mythic raiding.

Your thread asks the question if Blizzard is trying to kill mythic raiding, so I read it to see if you had valuable evidence or something other than opinions. Turns out you don't, you're the problem in your little situation so I'm correcting your perspective by teaching you the reality you don't see. You got the information, it's up to you to accept it or refuse it. My work here is done.

[Seranthor]

Come on, read the thread man. The difference is that in older tiers you could farm gear for the next tier. This is completely negated because the ilvl increase in the next tier is so massive that everything you do now is pointless.

If its 'pointless', what are your plans now that you are too brokenhearted to raid?

[Multitorix Davlen]

You farmed the firelands staff for every caster in your roster because it was BIS. You did farm the Elisande trinket for your warriors because it was BIS. And you also farmed old set bonuses for some classes, feral 2pc Tier 4 is a good example because it was better than anything you could get in BC. Ibet some dudes were still faming Thunderfury in BC because it was duch an op item for tanking and with threat still mattering in BC it would have been worthwhile.

For thunderfury, no. If you were farming for that, it was with pugs on your off time. You could absolutely do the entirety of BC without it and it not hamper either you or your group. People farmed elisand because of how easy it was to access her in comparison to other bosses. She had a skip after scorp. If Elisande did not have a skip i'd imagine the amount of people farming for her trinket would be significantly less than what it was, because it was a fucking HASSLE to go about doing it.

You may have not done this in your official raid time but that was never the point.

Thats ALL I've been talking about and that's all I'd assume you were talking about. Now that the goal post has been moved, i STILL don't agree with you. Very few people were ACTUALLY going back to old raids for gear to progress on new content. Why would they? New stuff was dropping elsewhere why go to old content?

This is about mythic raiding and if you dont understand the basic rules of it then what are you doing here?

Your post to another person leads me to believe this is for official raid so it WAS the point.

[Kyphael]

No, you're a grain of sand at the beach to them.