Thrall's powers

[darkoms]

Is he still shaman? If yes, why he dont duel Sylvanas instead Saurfang

[Aucald]

Is he still shaman? If yes, why he dont duel Sylvanas instead Saurfang

He is still a Shaman, yes. And he doesn't duel Sylvanas because it was not his fight, and he felt Saurfang needed to do what he did to make the statement that he made. In this instance, Saurfang could do what even Thrall could not, because he was uniquely positioned to do so and more intimately connected to what was going on within the Horde at this time.

[darkoms]

He is still a Shaman, yes. And he doesn't duel Sylvanas because it was not his fight, and he felt Saurfang needed to do what he did to make the statement that he made. In this instance, Saurfang could do what even Thrall could not, because he was uniquely positioned to do so and more intimately connected to what was going on within the Horde at this time.

So you have proof that Thrall again has the powers of a shaman? Did he show it somewhere?

[DragonsBeard]

So you have proof that Thrall again has the powers of a shaman? Did he show it somewhere?

Just because he lost the powers doesn't make him not a Shaman. He's just an extremely weak Shaman. But his class is still vary much Shaman.

[Aucald]

So you have proof that Thrall again has the powers of a shaman? Did he show it somewhere?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Until the story positively confirms that Thrall no longer has his Shamanic abilities, it's a given that he's still a Shaman. Even in Legion, after losing the Doomhammer, he could still use Shamanic abilities (which he does during the quest in Deepholm). He also uses Shamanic power during the Battle of the Broken Shore.

[darkoms]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Until the story positively confirms that Thrall no longer has his Shamanic abilities, it's a given that he's still a Shaman. Even in Legion, after losing the Doomhammer, he could still use Shamanic abilities (which he does during the quest in Deepholm). He also uses Shamanic power during the Battle of the Broken Shore.

I know this very well, but since then he did not prove himself to be a shaman, in the Legion he transferred his place to the hero and did not help against the demons, in Bfa he never used the Elements.

[Aucald]

I know this very well, but since then he did not prove himself to be a shaman, in the Legion he transferred his place to the hero and did not help against the demons, in Bfa he never used the Elements.

He doesn't have to "prove himself a Shaman," he's done that many, many times over now. All he did in Legion is relinquish the Doomhammer and his role as leader of the Earthen Ring to the Champion - that doesn't make him no longer a Shaman, though; no more than giving up the role of Warchief removed his Shamanhood. Following the death of Garrosh and the events of WoD he decided to retire, and as he states in 8.2 he did so because he felt he had done everything wrong - not because he lost his powers as a Shaman. He may very well not feel as though he's entitled to make use of the Elements, currently; but that's a decision on his part and not any kind of demonstrated limitation. Thrall is laboring under some serious depression currently, and that has been shown to interfere with a Shaman's powers as well - but that can also be overcome, and Thrall has done so before (in Cata and in "Twilight of the Aspects").

[Itori]

I think tirion said in the book with him and that orc, cant remember his name, but you cant take the light away from someone who is devout, and i assume that applies to the elements, although the elements can be fickle if need be he can still use his powers but he wont go down the dark shaman path and force them to do his bidding, thrall was never a warrior, but he will always be a shaman.

[derpkitteh]

being a shaman isn't about displaying power, or even being able to actually command the elements(though that tends to be a major part).

it's knowing the art of speaking to the elements, the ritual and practice of shamanistic teachings. if a shaman has lost favor with the elements and can no longer wield them, that doesn't remove their knowledge of how to speak with them and other things shaman do.

[darkoms]

He doesn't have to "prove himself a Shaman," he's done that many, many times over now. All he did in Legion is relinquish the Doomhammer and his role as leader of the Earthen Ring to the Champion - that doesn't make him no longer a Shaman, though; no more than giving up the role of Warchief removed his Shamanhood. Following the death of Garrosh and the events of WoD he decided to retire, and as he states in 8.2 he did so because he felt he had done everything wrong - not because he lost his powers as a Shaman. He may very well not feel as though he's entitled to make use of the Elements, currently; but that's a decision on his part and not any kind of demonstrated limitation. Thrall is laboring under some serious depression currently, and that has been shown to interfere with a Shaman's powers as well - but that can also be overcome, and Thrall has done so before (in Cata and in "Twilight of the Aspects").

Thrall says: Doomhammer... it was like a dead weight in my hands. The elements were silent. It has been this way since I used it to slay Garrosh.
The elements were silent.
elements were silent
I don't know how he use stone bridge on Broken Shore, but Thrall dont use shaman abilities from Legion

[Rafoel]

Is he still shaman? If yes, why he dont duel Sylvanas instead Saurfang

She wouldn't accept challenge from Thrall. She only accepted challenge from Saurfang because, per his own words, she wanted to make him suffer. She holds no grudge against Thrall though. She also knew she would win easily. She wouldn't accept a duel which she could lose.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

So you have proof that Thrall again has the powers of a shaman? Did he show it somewhere?

I know this very well, but since then he did not prove himself to be a shaman, in the Legion he transferred his place to the hero and did not help against the demons, in Bfa he never used the Elements.

Thrall says: Doomhammer... it was like a dead weight in my hands. The elements were silent. It has been this way since I used it to slay Garrosh.
The elements were silent.
elements were silent
I don't know how he use stone bridge on Broken Shore, but Thrall dont use shaman abilities from Legion

How about you ask Blizzard? Jesus, you don't seem very interested in actually discussing it, you keep saying no to everything you hear. Your mind seems made up.

[Silent One]

The elements abandoned him, he abandoned us, who gives a crap what he calls himself.

[Darknessvamp]

Actually on the point of Thrall losing his powers in WoD, was it ever confirmed that it was just the Elements on Draenor that he fell out of favour with or was it mentioned that it was the same with Azeroth's elements as well? Although I don't see why it would happen if the latter was true.

[Syegfryed]

He is a powerless shaman, i only remember him using weak powers in Legion, before losing the hammer.

2 explanations, one, he lost the hammer and also cannot use the shaman power anymore, or two, he can still only do weak magic like in Legion

Both options would not help him in the fight, like people said, it was Saurfang fight

[Aurabolt]

How about you ask Blizzard? Jesus, you don't seem very interested in actually discussing it, you keep saying no to everything you hear. Your mind seems made up.

...This. It's why I refrained from commenting personally.
@Aucald I'm sure you figured that out on your own as well. S/He clearly has no interest in having an actual discussion.

[bufferunderrun]

Imho it's pretty useless to discuss that, Blizzard has the habit to nerf/boost characters without any background (or with a very shallow excuse) so what the point? They boosted him to an aspect level and then nerfed it with an equally retarded bs excuse, same goes for nearly every hero/villain.

[Odintdk]

Imho it's pretty useless to discuss that, Blizzard has the habit to nerf/boost characters without any background (or with a very shallow excuse) so what the point? They boosted him to an aspect level and then nerfed it with an equally retarded bs excuse, same goes for nearly every hero/villain.

He got the spotlight during Cataclysm, then every Alliance player spammed the Blizzard forums moaning about "Green Jesus". Soon enough Blizzard caved in and he got taken out of the picture almost entirely.

[Aucald]

Thrall says: Doomhammer... it was like a dead weight in my hands. The elements were silent. It has been this way since I used it to slay Garrosh.
The elements were silent.
elements were silent
I don't know how he use stone bridge on Broken Shore, but Thrall dont use shaman abilities from Legion

Thrall is only briefly in Legion, and after the acquisition quest for the Doomhammer basically disappears from the action (not unlike Jaina herself, or the rest of the Horde and Alliance leadership). He also doesn't need actively need the Elements to use Shamanism - he has powers intrinsic to him gathered from his connection to the world itself, and the Elements still obviously answer his Calls (as they do at the Broken Shore) even if they aren't exactly speaking to him. Much of the supposed "silence" of the Elements is likely Thrall's own emotional state interfering with hearing them - he had a similar problem back in Cata, which was all part and parcel of the "Twilight of the Aspects" novel. He had to learn to quiet his own emotional turmoil over the death of Cairne and the plight of the Horde in order to reconnect with the Elements on a spiritual level. Killing Garrosh on Draenor, as well as his involvement (and implicit guilt) as concerns what Garrosh had done and the loss of life it involved, weigh heavy on Thrall's conscience as depicted by the 8.2 cut-scene at Thunder Bluff with Baine and Saurfang.

- - - Updated - - -

...This. It's why I refrained from commenting personally. Aucald I'm sure you figured that out on your own as well. S/He clearly has no interest in having an actual discussion.

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt where I can, but if one's mind is concluded on a specific matter there's not much that can really be done to change their minds on it, I suppose. Thrall may well be barring himself from Shamanism, or on the Elements' collective shit-list in some way (though I think it's more likely the problem is in his own head), but even if either of those things were true he'd still be a Shaman.

[Feanoro]

How about you ask Blizzard? Jesus, you don't seem very interested in actually discussing it, you keep saying no to everything you hear. Your mind seems made up.

Sounds like a perfect candidate for the "Sylvanas did nothing wrong" club.