Please stop with the Classic+ already

[Triceron]

Interesting thought, because we could endlessly debate what the spirit of Classic was.

Here is some "bait". Why didn't we have flying? Because they needed to slap together a HUGE world and it saved time / cost and whatever to NOT see the world ever from above. What spirit is that?

To this day I think flying is an awesome addition - and apparently it was a loved feature, much requested to fly in Azeroth that it lead to Cataclysms World revamp.

Now..ofc we can start the whole debate of "People don't know what is goo for them" vs "Devs are not giving players what they want"...etc. It is just futile.

And for every argument of how flying took it too far, I could make a case of "Well...why doesn't already riding takes it too far?". If you want to go slow...let people walk everywhere.

The other points..well..there are funnily already topics on this even in the Classic forum. You bemoan homogenisation...somebody makes a thread how Classic Paladins should have a taunt (and now you may come back how those things that I mentioned don't compare)

And then all the back and forth about LFG.

But fortunately you added "4. everybody has a different set of things they'd want and would never want in a classic+ "

Well wouldn't the proper answer to this is to use what is already in place as a guideline for what comes in the future?

If you're talking about the Spirit of Classic, then it's the contents and mechanics of 1.12. Not 1.07, not 1.13, but 1.12.

Some people are talking about new abilities or balance tweaks for this and that. That could definitely be in a conversation, but one that Blizzard should be considering internally before presenting to us. The same kind of testing they would have done to reach the conclusion that 1.12 is the most stable and agreeable patch to play and start on, despite Vanilla WoW having none of that same experience when it was first released.

If we're going to go down the rabbit hole of flight or no flight; using 1.12 as a guideline easily answers those bigger questions. When you get into details of whether X class should have new itemization to allow them to tank or heal or DPS more efficiently; that will have to be decided upon depending on what they evaluate as 'within the Classic experience'. And that's really all there is to it. It's gonna be complicated, it's gonna have answers that people will hate, but that's the nature of Classic in general. Not everyone loves Classic as it is right now, and that's not a bad thing.

We don't have to go down a slippery slope just to have new content. Blizzard is the arbitrator, not us.

And TBH, I see no harm in people talking about what they want (or don't want) to see. Even if it's not ever going to come to fruition, it's nice to see that some people have an opinion about it rather than everyone just assuming that this community is unanimous about #nochanges or #nonewcontent.

[Echocho]

People will want to know that their time spent is worth something in the end. Classic ending with naxx would mean for a lot of people that they wasted their time, MMORPGs are not supposed to have a finish line.

[tangers58]

To be fair, when there's absolutely no chance that any of it will happen so there's no need for ideas to be restricted by something stupid like reality, the possibilities literally are endless.

What a time to be alive.

To be fair, that is exactly what people were saying about vanilla servers two years ago

[Will]

the point is to have those changes be in the "spirit of classic"

IE: no flying, no LFR/LFG, no homogenized classes, no multi difficulties, etc etc etc.

I Just think, while it's a nice thought, there are multiple reasons why it's not feasible.

1. it'd be too costly
2. the new development team hasnt got the slightest clue what "the spirit of classic would actually be" as they have nothing to do with the creation of classic
3. powercreep from new raid tiers
4. everybody has a different set of things they'd want and would never want in a classic+

Haha okay, the "spirit of classic". Gotcha.

Sure, the dev team doesn't likely know what this so called 'spirit' is.
Apparently nether can the actual classic playerbase agree on what it is, either.

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People will want to know that their time spent is worth something in the end. Classic ending with naxx would mean for a lot of people that they wasted their time, MMORPGs are not supposed to have a finish line.

1. No, they won't have 'wasted' their time. The journey matters just as much, if not more, than the destination. Or are you implying the journey is simply a boring means to an end?
2. For a retail MMO, sure, there's never a finish line until the game dies. But classic is a fan service, a museum piece. I can get this support for some + content or TBC next, but this whole idea of them sprouting classic into a whole new series of expansions that some people are tossing around is beyond ridiculous.

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It's always funny when people who quite clearly did not play TBC say that flying ruined PvP, or, most astonishingly, that tier power levels didn't exist in vanilla and only arrived in TBC.
There was plenty of PvP in TBC, multiple classes had knockbacks to get people off flying mounts and the outside of raids was always full of people fighting.

Flying didn't ruin world PvP at all. Battlegrounds and Arenas ruined world PvP. The only time flying truly began to affect PvP is in Cataclysm when many of the knockback dismount effects were removed.

Today we have nets to dismount people, they could go further imo with more dismounting abilities, but saying that flying Full Stop is the thing that destroyed WPVP is just laughable.

You're exactly right. World PvP was ironically hit the hardest in vanilla when battlegrounds came out. I played - PvPed hard - throughout TBC and there was plenty of world PvP. Actually, flying mounts facilitated world PvP by allowing us to reach areas that were under attack / support our friends on shorter notice. Without flying, if someone on far side of the zone is attacked you might not be bothered to run all that way to help.

Sure, some cowards will just fly high above you. The only people upset by that are gankers.

Most shocking of all is the people who say that if we get TBC servers there should be no flying because it ruined world PvP. Stupid suggestion. I have a better idea. There's a net gun that dismounts people in mid air in BfA with like what, 500 yd range? Just put that in the game. Boom. You can shoot people down. Problem solved? Small change, doesn't break the game, makes cheesing to escape world PvP less viable.

[Super Kami Dende]

The irony is the People who spammed threads constantly about what Blizzard should do to change Retail back to how they want it from Vanilla are now the People crying about People making threads to change Vanilla to how they want it now.

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When given an inch, a yard will be taken.

Ahh yes, so better to sit in the Mud then.

[Elkfingers]

To be fair, that is exactly what people were saying about vanilla servers two years ago

True, but just like the OSRS comparisons, it's not analagous.

Two years ago I wouldn't have been one of those people, because Vanilla servers are at least plausible. What's much more likely is that if Classic remains popular, they'll just incorporate elements that were well-received by a modern playerbase into future expansions.

[shaunika123]

Well..I guess in this case you can report it and see what happens?

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Interesting thought, because we could endlessly debate what the spirit of Classic was.

Here is some "bait". Why didn't we have flying? Because they needed to slap together a HUGE world and it saved time / cost and whatever to NOT see the world ever from above. What spirit is that?

To this day I think flying is an awesome addition - and apparently it was a loved feature, much requested to fly in Azeroth that it lead to Cataclysms World revamp.

Now..ofc we can start the whole debate of "People don't know what is goo for them" vs "Devs are not giving players what they want"...etc. It is just futile.

And for every argument of how flying took it too far, I could make a case of "Well...why doesn't already riding takes it too far?". If you want to go slow...let people walk everywhere.

The other points..well..there are funnily already topics on this even in the Classic forum. You bemoan homogenisation...somebody makes a thread how Classic Paladins should have a taunt (and now you may come back how those things that I mentioned don't compare)

And then all the back and forth about LFG.

But fortunately you added "4. everybody has a different set of things they'd want and would never want in a classic+ "

flying killed world pvp

riding has not.

that's a big point.

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Haha okay, the "spirit of classic". Gotcha.

Sure, the dev team doesn't likely know what this so called 'spirit' is.
Apparently nether can the actual classic playerbase agree on what it is, either.

I mean, I'M just saying what it's supposed to be, but hey laugh all you want.

[facefist]

Imagine if people had this attitude few years ago when we endlessly spammed for classic? Would we have classic now if people were like you? "Stop spam for classic retail should be enough"... You are just like retail people back then: ignorant.

[Mosotti]

Classic+ is called TBC and it will come in 2 years.

[Balir]

Blizz will not throw any resources in terms of zone/dungeon/raid design for a "Classic +". I'd actually be surprised if their modern world design graphic tools would even allow them to build shit with out dated, scratchy, low res graphics.

Move on to TBC after a couple of years. I'm levelling at a super casual rate in Classic. I only want to get to 60 in case classic servers get patched to TBC. Then I will be right into it big time.

[Xofa]

It's always funny when people who quite clearly did not play TBC say that flying ruined PvP, or, most astonishingly, that tier power levels didn't exist in vanilla and only arrived in TBC.
There was plenty of PvP in TBC, multiple classes had knockbacks to get people off flying mounts and the outside of raids was always full of people fighting.

Flying didn't ruin world PvP at all. Battlegrounds and Arenas ruined world PvP. The only time flying truly began to affect PvP is in Cataclysm when many of the knockback dismount effects were removed.

Today we have nets to dismount people, they could go further imo with more dismounting abilities, but saying that flying Full Stop is the thing that destroyed WPVP is just laughable.

10 years and still you have absolute no clue what you're 'talking' about.. Jesus christ!

Let me share wisdom..!

Flying did INDEED ruin PvP - World pvp for that matter! Why? I tell you why!

You can simply FLY away! You are not connected to the world and even environment around you anymore. No danger lurks in the shadows or around the corner when you simply can fly away, hell even stand a few meters above around and laugh at melees. People who deny this fact, and YES! It is a fact are simply retarded AF and should simply have their comment rights removed. Harsh words coming from me? Perhaps, but truth hurts.

One of the sole reasons why people love vanilla is because it doesn't have flying. IF you were around when flying got introduced you would also be aware that it's the same thing people are telling over and over again: FLYING RUINED so much of the game and not just World PvP.

You're no longer connected to the world when you can be 200 kms above ground level.
If you cannot accept facts nor the truth, we're done here then.

[Kaleredar]

10 years and still you have absolute no clue what you're 'talking' about.. Jesus christ!

Let me share wisdom..!

Flying did INDEED ruin PvP - World pvp for that matter! Why? I tell you why!

You can simply FLY away! You are not connected to the world and even environment around you anymore. No danger lurks in the shadows or around the corner when you simply can fly away, hell even stand a few meters above around and laugh at melees. People who deny this fact, and YES! It is a fact are simply retarded AF and should simply have their comment rights removed. Harsh words coming from me? Perhaps, but truth hurts.

One of the sole reasons why people love vanilla is because it doesn't have flying. IF you were around when flying got introduced you would also be aware that it's the same thing people are telling over and over again: FLYING RUINED so much of the game and not just World PvP.

You're no longer connected to the world when you can be 200 kms above ground level.
If you cannot accept facts nor the truth, we're done here then.

No one gives a damn.

No one gave a damn in BC, no one gave a damn in WotLK, no one gave a damn in Cata, no one gave a damn until the very, very end of MoP, when complaining about flying became a hot button issue.

But beyond the very small, vocal group that you apparently belong to, no one... really cares. So what if you're detached from the world. The world is not challenging, and it's not made challenging or more interesting by having to run everywhere. It just makes the same rote tasks take longer. World PvP disintegrated after the introduction of Battlegrounds in Vanilla because there was zero incentive to do PvP anywhere but in BGs. Flying had nothing to do with that.

[Balbuto]

nothing wrong with people dreaming up what could be with classic+.

endless possibilities

You allready have classic+ and ++ and +++ and so forth, its called TBC, Wotlk and so forth. You wanted Classic, now you have it, stick with it, you all knew that it would end at Naxx same as Vanilla.

[Xofa]

No one gives a damn.

No one gave a damn in BC, no one gave a damn in WotLK, no one gave a damn in Cata, no one gave a damn until the very, very end of MoP, when complaining about flying became a hot button issue.

But beyond the very small, vocal group that you apparently belong to, no one... really cares. So what if you're detached from the world. The world is not challenging, and it's not made challenging or more interesting by having to run everywhere. It just makes the same rote tasks take longer. World PvP disintegrated after the introduction of Battlegrounds in Vanilla because there was zero incentive to do PvP anywhere but in BGs. Flying had nothing to do with that.

Amazing how you simply ignored every points I had on why flying was bad. Please re-read my post again.

And fyi-- it has absolute NOTHING to do with the world not being "challenging" .. wtf is even up with that lol? Challenging .. hah!

[Granyala]

Flying did INDEED ruin PvP - World pvp for that matter! Why? I tell you why!

You can simply FLY away!

Then you are a crappy PvPer and I would have escaped on a ground mount as well.

The moment you allow your enemy to mount up, you've lost him.

As for the "no danger lurks" argument: well mobs aren't dangerous. They only waste my time and when I get flying in late stage of the game, it is okay for willy the trashmob no longer being able to waste it. Getting epic flight took a long time back then, comparable to the Pathfinder achievements now.

As for PvP: I don't give a f***. I transitioned to playing on PvE servers at the end of Wrath because of people like you that constantly attack in scenarios when victory is a safe bet b/c the other party was compromised and never lifted a finger otherwise. In 4 years of playing on RP-PvP I can count the # of honorable encounters on one hand.

Good riddance I say.

BTW: PvP in classic is exactly the same. Everyone that attacked me so far was either in a group of 3+ or was 5-7 levels above me.. Wooo so honorable, so hardcore....

PS: In terms of getting ganked, flight didn't change one thing. You want to know why? Because in order to DO anything out in the world I have to dismount and fight mobs. And that is the point when PvPers strike.

Flight has about at much a consequence for PvPing as the APGs (Auto Pilot Gryphon) people use now. Both remove you from the world for long distance travel.

[Bigbamboozal]

but its fun to watch the wow community eat itself and die from a thousand cuts, whilst i eat my lunch.

and any way, this is only a small fan forum not the official forums, people should be free to discuss what they want if its on topic.

umm... I sorta think that's a strange adaption of what's going on here.
People are like "man I'd love if *this* happened next"/"I'd love to carry on this road" and you see that as the community eats itself; where as I see it as people expressing interest in further reboots.
Sorta seems weird to see people wanting a whole 'nother loop of the game as wow is dying.
How very trendy and fresh of you

OT: dear OP,
no.
signed someone who loved tbc, and wrath as much as vanilla (and really loved it too)

[wholol]

What is so wrong with just sitting back and enjoying the game we have now. There have been dozens of threads all talking about Classic+ this, TBC that. Isn't vanilla enough?

I can understand 1 thread where everyone talks about the after Classic dilemma but the game has only been out for a month and that's all I see anymore. Anything beyond what we have in Classic will happen at some point, and we will be given the opportunity to give feedback at a later date. There is so much to do right now as is that there shouldn't be any focus on the beyond Classic topic. Its getting hard scrolling though all the Classic+ threads to get something worth reading and replying.

People who speak of classic+ yearn for something else, it's not that they want classic specifically but more like the underlying rpg system that classic is based on merged with the diversity that retail endgame provides without inflating the indulgence of QoL, in other words, a perfect and immersive fantasy RPG world, at least for that small portion of the playerbase.

[Anastacy]

4. everybody has a different set of things they'd want and would never want in a classic+

Cool. I don't want any changes to "Classic", so...no Classic+.

[Monster Hunter]

umm... I sorta think that's a strange adaption of what's going on here.
People are like "man I'd love if *this* happened next"/"I'd love to carry on this road" and you see that as the community eats itself; where as I see it as people expressing interest in further reboots.
Sorta seems weird to see people wanting a whole 'nother loop of the game as wow is dying.
How very trendy and fresh of you

OT: dear OP,
no.
signed someone who loved tbc, and wrath as much as vanilla (and really loved it too)

MMOs are games that love and die on community, if you add in enohgb toxic conflict or divide that community down into seperate segments to much the whole thing dies.

This is the start of the end for wow as a franchise.

[wholol]

Sorry to break it to you

Sorry to break it to you, but I'm not the one who's asking for that kind of version.