Please stop with the Classic+ already

[Maudib]

OP... relax. Blizzard is never, and I mean NEVER going to develop new content for Classic.

They will release Classic TBC, then Classic WotLK... then perhaps continue on but I doubt it.

This gives Blizzard roughly 6-7 years to work on a WoW 2. Something that hopefully will combine the things that are succesfull about both modern and Classic WoW and bring us all new characters, lore, content, while tying well to the previous game's history.

It is either this, or WoW's eventual shutdown. You can't have a 14 year old game overshadowing your flagship MMO. It just says volumes about ho bad it's become.

[wargone]

Give us TBC. that is the Classic + i want!.
but no it is kind of stupid, i talked with a guy, and he legidemently hoped for " yea, and then they can add expations and content and new raids and such to Vanila"
to which i countered" you mean like TBC?" And he said " no, something new, Like emerald dream or dragon island and such"

God bless the foolish, yea it would be cool, but if they added that, it would not be classic, and classic + sounds stupid, also that would legidemently require and entire double wow Team. if they are also makeing content for Retail, Now they would need a full on devolpment team for classic +...

[Rolopolo]

Would be fantastic if they added unfinished areas like Hyjal and Grim batol.

[Trbn]

That's funny, I don't remember being able to fly in BC and WotLK (barring the run-speed loaner mount necessary for Storm Peaks questing) until level cap, which had a not-insignificant gold cost associated for flying training, epic flying, and cold weather flying (otherwise, enjoy your 60% flight speed until later patches buffed normal flight to 180%). By level cap, you've seen all the sights there are to see. Naxxramas looming menacingly in the skies above eastern Dragonblight isn't as intimidating the fiftieth time you ride below it, any more than the gates of Stormwind remain impressive the fiftieth time you ride through the Valley of Heroes. So you're demonstrably wrong here up until, again, the devs started getting lazy in Cataclysm.

This had nothing to do with Blizzard's decisions to both get lazy with world design in the 80-85 Cataclysm zones while simultaneously allowing players to fly from level 80 in Cataclysm zones (something that could have been addressed with dismounting turrets/NPC guards like zones you weren't 'supposed' to fly in in BC), that was the developers taking the easy way out which they've reliably continued to do ever since. Excuse me while I remain unconvinced that we should reward their laziness.

the main exploration starts when person has no goal in game like level cap. with flying there were no point in exploring. mind you I found out there were quests with eartherns in storm peaks only in 2014 or 2015 when I was bored in wod.
i'm talking about rewarding laziness i'm saying that nobody needs the world when you can skip it.

funny that all exploration now is just datamining

[Thage]

the main exploration starts when person has no goal in game like level cap. with flying there were no point in exploring. mind you I found out there were quests with eartherns in storm peaks only in 2014 or 2015 when I was bored in wod.
i'm talking about rewarding laziness i'm saying that nobody needs the world when you can skip it.

funny that all exploration now is just datamining

If you didn't go exploring because there was "no point," that's on you, my dude. I had as much of the map of Outland and Northrend uncovered as was possible before I hit level cap. Ditto in Pandaria. With flying, I finished up and looked for things I couldn't reach on the ground (like Starcraft: Ghost's memorial in Hellfire Peninsula, a more thorough exploration of the Engine of the Makers in Storm Peaks once I could fly at epic flight speed, finding out-of-the-way things like the Up house in Pandaria, etc.).

And again, you keep talking about skipping the world, but that's only been possible at level cap other than in Cataclysm (and that only happened because the devs got lazy with world design and just let you use the level 60 flying license in Cataclysm zones without any sort of anti-air control to manage the situation like they did in BC and WotLK). By the time you hit level cap, unless you also took the easy way out and just spammed dungeons (in which case, you have no room to complain about not needing the world as you made a conscious decision to skip it anyway, and all the forced ground travel in the world can't fix that catch-22), you've seen pretty much everything there is to see except a handful of areas you can't reach on foot. Most of those areas have world bosses, or raid entrances, to make going there worthwhile.

BFA lacks in exploration because the world design is lazy. It was lazy long before Pathfinder Part 2 was implemented, when everyone was confined to ground travel. It's going to be lazy ten years from now. Flying is completely irrelevant to Blizzard's lazy world design. That's why I called it useful-idiot propaganda when they started blaming it all on flying rather than their own lack of passion for world design.

[justandulas]

You allready have classic+ and ++ and +++ and so forth, its called TBC, Wotlk and so forth. You wanted Classic, now you have it, stick with it, you all knew that it would end at Naxx same as Vanilla.

I disagree entirely. I’m happy with classic as is and if it never has a classic+ I’m happy with that, but classic+ is a chance to correct the wrongs of yesteryear. To build an alternate reality wow based off of classic and that style of wow

The possibilities are endless. I understand that retail players would push hard against it, but a classic+ could be the best thing wow ever did

[Will]

FLYING RUINED so much of the game and not just World PvP.

I'm going to repost what I wrote since you apparently didn't see it:

World PvP was ironically hit the hardest in vanilla when battlegrounds came out. I played - PvPed hard - throughout TBC and there was plenty of world PvP. Actually, flying mounts facilitated world PvP by allowing us to reach areas that were under attack / support our friends on shorter notice. Without flying, if someone on far side of the zone is attacked you might not be bothered to run all that way to help.

Sure, some cowards will just fly high above you. But as to those who actively WANT to fight, flying meant less travel time, which translated into joining the battle sooner.

Most shocking of all is the people who say that if we get TBC servers there should be no flying because it ruined world PvP. Stupid suggestion. I have a better idea. There's a net gun that dismounts people in mid air in BfA with like what, 500 yd range? Just put that in the game. Boom. You can shoot people down. Problem solved? Small change, doesn't break the game, makes cheesing to escape world PvP less viable.

Anecdotally I had loads and loads of world pvp fun in TBC, sometimes just seeing people flagged up as I quest, killing them which leads to them calling for help, us calling for help etc until you have a mini war going on. Sometimes we were brought together by the world objectives like Halaa or the Hellfire Fortifications.

People often look back at SSvTM as the epitome of world PvP, but they fail to realise SSvTM existed because there were no battlegrounds at the time, but there was an honor system, so people just went there to farm honor instead. When battlegrounds came out later in Vanilla, SSvTM lost a whole lot of its power. Some folk still did it for a time, but it eventually petered away. Yet funnily people blame flying mounts for world PvP's death? I can guarantee you even if we'd not had flying in TBC, world PvP would have still been far less than it was during those SSvTM days.

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Yeah i agree if they want retail its waiting for you!

Oh god reading comments like yours makes me facepalm so hard. We're talking about people who want TBC, not retail. For christ sake stop trying to compare TBC to retail, they're still leagues apart in design philosophy and gameplay.

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Could it be.. let's try think here.. just for a single moment.. Could it be, that if the player was allowed to mount up, he would have to navigate around the terrain, avoid mobs and paths where there would be a higher chance to run into hostile players? ALL those 3 things you take out when you fly. And those 3 things are VERY present in classic. But hey.. what the hell, it's all bullshit I am saying and not true, right? It doesn't affect how we players intervene with the world.

It's swings and roundabouts. You trade meeting people on the road for the flexibility of being able to respond to local or world defense more rapidly. What this effectively means is people who want to avoid conflict and just go about their business will have an easier time of it, but people who seek conflict will actually have an easier time.

Case and point, you want to start a war? Just go to an enemy quest hub and start attacking NPCs. It won't be long until a member of the opposite faction comes along and a fight ensues. It literally won't be long -- since they can fly. Lol. And not just that; if you're a ganker, being able to fly massively increases the speed at which you can scan the ground for people going about their business to attack. I have fond memories of a little war I started in the arse end of Terokkar. If not for flying I doubt half the people who flew across the zone to get a slice of the action would have been remotely bothered to make the journey.

That's my point, people try to over-simplify flying as the sole nail in the coffin when in actuality it has pros and cons. World PvP has suffered far far harder from battlegrounds and arena than it has from flying, yet those features don't get half as much flak. Flying might let people cheese their way out of combat, but it also does the opposite and can facilitate speedy response and speedy scans for potential targets to attack. It's a double-edged sword, but you "flying killed world pvp" types only ever see it from the perspective of people trying to avoid conflict. At some point those very people have to land do to what the fuck they set out to do in the first place, and that's when you can strike.

[Orby]

I don't think people want Classic plus. They want a WoW2.

People ask for Classic plus like its going to be the same game classic is. You do realise who is developing WoW now right? All those guys that created the game back in 2004 are gone. You will not like Classic+, it's an interesting concept for sure, like a 'Mario the lost Levels' type of game.

I like the prospect of going back to a game when we were explorers and adventures and not heroes.

But it's the execution I am worried about. What you want and what you are going to get is going to be very different if you ask for it.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

snip

SSvTM existed even after BGs ... especially since battles over happened near the instance portals to AV which was nearby.

Anyone who says flying didn't hurt Wpvp either wasn't there, or they just don't want to admit they care more about the convenience of flying to admit that it did hurt wpvp.

[Mirishka]

Everyone has their opinion. No version of WoW was perfect to most, even revered expansions had their flaws so people will dream up of their perfect state of WoW in terms of content, balance, and QoL. It's just an opinion others will have and their own fault if they demand that opinion adamantly only to be disappointed by reality.

If Classic+ does happen, it will most likely be long after Naxx content is exhausted and Blizz wants to keep it alive.

There are people who played on illegal vanilla servers for over a decade. Thousands of them. Blizz doesn't need to come up with a bunch of phoned-in 'new' content (aka Classic+) to keep players around.

And besides that - adding content that we never saw in Classic, instead of going to BC/Wrath, would essentially be an alternate timeline like Warlords. Who the hell honestly wants a Warlords of Draenor part 2?

[Granyala]

This had nothing to do with Blizzard's decisions to both get lazy with world design in the 80-85 Cataclysm zones while simultaneously allowing players to fly from level 80 in Cataclysm zones (something that could have been addressed with dismounting turrets/NPC guards like zones you weren't 'supposed' to fly in in BC), that was the developers taking the easy way out which they've reliably continued to do ever since. Excuse me while I remain unconvinced that we should reward their laziness.

Well Cata was the odd one out primarily because the zones were split up. It kinda makes sense, since they wanted to show off the redone world.
Looking back, I think it would have been better to get flying at 85 instead of 80. One is always wiser after the fact though, this was Blizzards test for leveling with flight, most people (me, as a pro flyer included) thought it was not good and so they returned to the old model.
In MoP Blizzard returned to the "flight" at max level as usual and it was good.

Flight became a hot button topic only after GC and other DEVs ranted on about how they disliked it and wanted it removed (some time during MoP).
That's when people started parroting and suddenly it was a big deal, when in the 6+ years before that, no one gave a rats ass. Everyone was in arms about it because OMG world PvP!!11, conveniently forgetting that a huge part of the player base plays on PvE realms where this issue of ganking (which was basically the ONLY issue with flight) didn't exist.

BTW: classic+ makes no sense at all because you would create a new version of the game that never existed in the first place. I can understand the want for a TBC or even a Wrath server. Absolutely. But taking vanilla and arbitrarily changing it... nope. Not going to happen.

[Will]

I disagree entirely. I’m happy with classic as is and if it never has a classic+ I’m happy with that, but classic+ is a chance to correct the wrongs of yesteryear. To build an alternate reality wow based off of classic and that style of wow

The possibilities are endless. I understand that retail players would push hard against it, but a classic+ could be the best thing wow ever did

Well they can start correcting those wrongs by actually making more specs viable, removing the debuff limit, removing leeway, removing/"setting to modern levels" the spell batching, making rotations more engaging, designing bosses to be less consumable-intensive, adding more raid size options so more people can play,

Oh wait. We're basically at TBC without flying or arena by this stage. Imagine that...

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SSvTM existed even after BGs ... especially since battles over happened near the instance portals to AV which was nearby.

Anyone who says flying didn't hurt Wpvp either wasn't there, or they just don't want to admit they care more about the convenience of flying to admit that it did hurt wpvp.

And yet I'm someone who quite clearly stated that I was there and that it had a mixed impact on world PvP. It greatly reduced the 'risk factor' of world PvP -- that feel of walking along the zones and worrying you'll get ambushed -- but on the flip side it boosted the 'emergency response factor' of World PvP -- Honor Hold is under attack, let's get there and defend it kinda thing. It changed the dynamics of world PvP. For better or worse. Worse according to you. For me, better. I had plenty of fear of being ganked on the road on my journey from 1-68 or whatever level it is you learn to fly.

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I don't think people want Classic plus. They want a WoW2.

People ask for Classic plus like its going to be the same game classic is. You do realise who is developing WoW now right? All those guys that created the game back in 2004 are gone. You will not like Classic+, it's an interesting concept for sure, like a 'Mario the lost Levels' type of game.

I like the prospect of going back to a game when we were explorers and adventures and not heroes.

But it's the execution I am worried about. What you want and what you are going to get is going to be very different if you ask for it.

Relax, it's currently far far far far far more likely they just do TBC next.

[justandulas]

Well they can start correcting those wrongs by actually making more specs viable, removing the debuff limit, removing leeway, removing/"setting to modern levels" the spell batching, making rotations more engaging, designing bosses to be less consumable-intensive, adding more raid size options so more people can play,

Oh wait. We're basically at TBC without flying or arena by this stage. Imagine that...

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And yet I'm someone who quite clearly stated that I was there and that it had a mixed impact on world PvP. It greatly reduced the 'risk factor' of world PvP -- that feel of walking along the zones and worrying you'll get ambushed -- but on the flip side it boosted the 'emergency response factor' of World PvP -- Honor Hold is under attack, let's get there and defend it kinda thing. It changed the dynamics of world PvP. For better or worse. Worse according to you. For me, better. I had plenty of fear of being ganked on the road on my journey from 1-68 or whatever level it is you learn to fly.

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Relax, it's currently far far far far far more likely they just do TBC next.

Don’t have such a small imagination that you are forced into thinking tbc

They could take the pros of tbc without the cons, keep the content forever at level 60, and develop new skills that you need to beat 40 man bosses to get the tome to learn

That fits with the theme of classic and any classic+ content has to fit in with classic

Use it at an alternate reality wow; expand at 60 forever rather than expand vertically. Vertical growth is shallow and makes the previous content invalid. Keep it 60 forever and make new raids, new skills, and hell new classes like necromancer that can’t exist in retail due to inferior dk class

[Cliss1234]

I don't see how they would have any resources to put on something like classic+ when they have a sunken ship with retail. One would think they need all hands on deck for that. ALSO they already said bringing TBC out wouldnt take much efforts as most of the prep for it is basically done... so.... bring TBC out(which i would think is what ~95%+ of people want and/or would be happy with) + save some money by not having to hire more devs to make ''new'' classic content. Easy 500iq Activision Blizzard play.


i heard the folks who really want a classic+ LOVED the crappy tacked on cgi in re-releases of the original SW trilogy. =)

[Aggrophobic]

What is so wrong with just sitting back and enjoying the game we have now. There have been dozens of threads all talking about Classic+ this, TBC that. Isn't vanilla enough?

I can understand 1 thread where everyone talks about the after Classic dilemma but the game has only been out for a month and that's all I see anymore. Anything beyond what we have in Classic will happen at some point, and we will be given the opportunity to give feedback at a later date. There is so much to do right now as is that there shouldn't be any focus on the beyond Classic topic. Its getting hard scrolling though all the Classic+ threads to get something worth reading and replying.

Becuase people didn't know or forgot how broken and lacking in content vanilla really was and now they more or less want the same changes Blizzard made with TBC and, well... every other expansion. We got to where retail is becuase thats what the players wanted.

[justandulas]

Becuase people didn't know or forgot how broken and lacking in content vanilla really was and now they more or less want the same changes Blizzard made with TBC and, well... every other expansion. We got to where retail is becuase thats what the players wanted.

You are completely missing the point of wow classic+ talk

Most of us are happy with classic as is and want more NEW classic content in the theme of classic post naxx, but the content has to fit in with the rest. Expand horizontally rather than vertically.

We already have time travel and alternate realities in WoW; why are so many retail players so adamantly against classic+?

[Sastank]

People wanting content in Classic want something else not part of Vanilla. So they just really want a live service WoW with less QOL. Shrug

[dayne87]

I don't think the Classic+ threads should stop, though maybe a mega-thread could be started.

On topic, I think as long as they leave Classic as it is after phase 6 and THEN create Classic+ realms, it would satisfy the no-change and change people. The no-changers could stay on their legalized private servers known as Classic and then those who liked the style of Classic could move on to Classic+ where maybe it's an alternate timeline and we never leave Azeroth and maybe the level cap stays at 60.

The biggest complaint I hear from streamers and other players is class balance. Many, many specs in Classic were SHIT. Yes, if you overgeared the content you could do it regardless, but still, it feels bad to play a shit class. Ret paladins are a joke, along with boomkins and shamans, etc. Hybrid tax is fine, but at least balance them up to TBC levels where finally at the very end of TBC they fixed ret paladin mana problems. I remember playing my ret paladin at the end of TBC and feeling like a brand new character after X patch where they made it so Y ability (I don't remember off-hand) gave paladins mana. That, along with other balance changes, could easily be brought to Classic to help enhance the Classic experience without bringing in "retail" concepts such as LFR or dungeon finder, achievements, transmogs, etc.

[Halyon]

Ahh yes, so better to sit in the Mud then.

Nnno. I'm saying people move the goalpost constantly when what they wanted initially is given.

[salate]

If only Blizzard didn't mention it in their very first poll before making classic. They did mention it, they even added 1 question about it.
Then mentioned it on some forums if im not mistaken...

But w/e, im not against it.