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  1. #141
    If they destroy another city for faction war bullshit I'm completely done with the game.

    I swear to god Blizzard has a fetish for blowing up cities as a method of creating drama.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakhath View Post
    Honestly, the story would benefit from the Alliance doing something "bad" for a change. The whole Horde acts and Alliance reacts is tremendously worn out.
    At the point, the Horde story is so trashed, it wouldn't make much of a difference. Since the Horde is effectively disbanded at this point, I would let it just die a quiet death and, if you don't drop the two faction system altogether, replace it with something without all the baggage.

  3. #143
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    If they destroy another city for faction war bullshit I'm completely done with the game.

    I swear to god Blizzard has a fetish for blowing up cities as a method of creating drama.
    Not only that, but also they don't even care to clean up the mess they leave afterwards.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  4. #144
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Of course he didn't, he isn't as strong as Kil'jaeden, but they had the upper hand that Deceiver had to run.
    i think he only helped us in the darkness scenario, nothing more, Velen did more than him.

    I think that Illidan poses too much power for that. Did you read the book written by King? I mean Illidan, it was explained in it that when we(heroes) fought with him, he was on his death bed during that fight... and he still won. If it wasn't for Maiev and Akama, he could've killed us where we stand... and he was like at 1-2% of his power back then.
    Red gul'dan was tearing holes in the reality,opening a gate to the twisting nether sucking the power there, weakened illdn there could not do much imo.

    And I think that explains it really well how powerful Illidan is.
    or how much plot armor he have, i cannot see him being stronger than Arthas there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joebob42 View Post
    The Alliance have only screwed over each other (e.g. the Defias situation). I'm sorry, but the Horde are just evil. The Alliance aren't. The Alliance just want to live in peace on OUR planet.
    thats why they wend to the another continent to wipe out the orcs, thats why they have wiped out trolls and gnolls after invading and taking their lands?

    The Forsaken were created by AN ORC.
    created by an eredar aka draenei race
    The Trolls have pretty much been evil from their inception.
    it is the humans and elves who invaded their lands and tried to kill then

    The Tauren can have a pass because they were kind of caught in the middle of a bad situation. We can forgive them. The orcs have access to Draenor, so I say let them go back home. Let them pick between Outland and WoD, but get off my Azeroth.
    says the alien titan constructs, thinking they had any more power in this world than trolls and taurens, sure

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    Quote Originally Posted by joebob42 View Post
    No. Alien means something from another place. The Alliance races all ORIGINATED on Azeroth. Calling them aliens would be like calling humans (on Earth) aliens because they were created by God (assuming that is what happened).
    they are as much alliens than orcs, since orcs are also born and created in this planent

    The orcs did not originate on Azeroth, therefore they are an alien infection just like the old gods and Forsaken are. The Forsaken are a disease that spread from the orcish infection of the planet. They must also be purged.
    orcs are also an titan construction, more "pure" than titan constructs being infected by the curse of flesh, you are more of a infection than you think

    If the trolls can learn to behave,
    why the trolls didn't learn to let the humans invade their lands and kill then, what a barbaric race

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Tyrande could go villain and blow up Orgrimmar, Sylvanas could then destroy Stormwind and we all move to Thunder Bluff and Ironforge which get extensive remodels?
    I mean you probably could do something with Ironforge but you can't really grow another peaks for TB.
    S.H.

  6. #146
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joebob42 View Post
    No. Alien means something from another place. The Alliance races all ORIGINATED on Azeroth. Calling them aliens would be like calling humans (on Earth) aliens because they were created by God (assuming that is what happened).
    Well Draenei are also aliens. In fact they come from a planet farther from Azeroth, so they are more alien than orcs.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    It does appear when Lightforged use their racial. Have you ever used Thunder Totem in battle?
    you mean lights judgement? the HOLY (aka lightforged power) or forge of light ...a construct made out of light...both have to do with their sub/allied race status. Just like beserk, escape artist etc etc


    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Sounds like Thunder Bluff.
    You mean the city with bank, AH, trainers for profffesions etc. And with a lot of land for food, water etc around it? vs a rock in space without those. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    It is as big as Echo Isles.
    And that is why i did not include it in the first place ( both of them). Because they where to small. . But you wanted to add them.

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Well, in-game Suramar is still Legion controlled.
    And ingame gilneas is too. But as you pointed out in lore both are cities are lived in.

    So if you take my rules alliance has less cities.
    And if you take your rules alliance still has less cities.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by joebob42 View Post
    Dude, you're not making any kind of sense at all. Do you not understand the concept of borders and sovereignty? Azeroth is the native home of humans, elves, trolls, tauren, gnomes, dwarves, and dragons. It is NOT the native home of orcs.

    If humans had gone through the portal to Draenor when Medivh opened it, then humans would have been the invaders. Humans have no right to live on Draenor.

    But you sound like an insane person so...
    Orcs settled eventually in a uninhabited desert. Most orcs currently were born on Azeroth, or atleast a huge fraction. Never knowing dreanor.

    Titans are invaders, trolls are invaders, elfs are invaders, humans are invaders. All are groups of people that conquered territory they didn't own and colonised it.

    In the real world is fully of people migrating and conquering new land. Both the majority of english and Americans aren't descendants of the first people who owned that land.

    So no I dont subscribe to your definition of evil. Certainly not any orc younger then thrall.

    Several examples of how your logic can be used to show the Horde as good.

    -forsaken inhabit, or did atleast before the alliance took Undercity, their ancestral homelands.

    - Night Elfs living today aren't in living in the land they were born in, they come from central kamildor not north kamildor. They invaded it

    - the Old Horde were right for purging the space goats
    Last edited by Newname1234567890; 2019-10-01 at 10:08 PM.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by joebob42 View Post
    The Alliance have only screwed over each other (e.g. the Defias situation). I'm sorry, but the Horde are just evil. The Alliance aren't. The Alliance just want to live in peace on OUR planet.

    The Forsaken were created by AN ORC.

    The Trolls have pretty much been evil from their inception. The Tauren can have a pass because they were kind of caught in the middle of a bad situation. We can forgive them. The orcs have access to Draenor, so I say let them go back home. Let them pick between Outland and WoD, but get off my Azeroth.
    Weren't the Forsaken created by Illidan inadvertently when he used the Eye of Sargeras to crack the Frozen Throne and weaken the Lich King's control over the Scourge of Lordaeron? Or are you talking about the Scourge, which were largely created by a plague orchestrated and spread by the human necromancer Kel'thuzad?

    As far as the Alliance's innocence goes, they attempted to force the Amani out of Quel'thelas and they invaded Kalimdor based on the instruction of a human prophet. I won't say they've committed as many atrocities as the Horde (especially if accounting for the magnitude of those atrocities), but they have definitely screwed over non-Alliance to serve their own self-interest.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    O
    In the real world is fully of people migrating and conquering new land. Both the majority of english and Americans aren't descendants of the first people who owned that land.
    The only "first people" in North America that had a concept of land ownership in the Western sense was the Delaware. Their idea was only for a season for a family to hunt and was very very uncommon practice being the only case I could come up with a quick search.

    Also, many colonists were invited to stay by the first peoples and land given away via treaty. I know it may be hard to grasp but land in many parts of the world was so plentiful to the people that lived there that it was worthless. Hence when Manhatten was bought by $14 dollars the "first people's" got a fortune for something they viewed as worthless.

    Also were most "first people's" really there first? Or did they also displace other people that were there before them?

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    The only "first people" in North America that had a concept of land ownership in the Western sense was the Delaware. Their idea was only for a season for a family to hunt and was very very uncommon practice being the only case I could come up with a quick search.

    Also, many colonists were invited to stay by the first peoples and land given away via treaty. I know it may be hard to grasp but land in many parts of the world was so plentiful to the people that lived there that it was worthless. Hence when Manhatten was bought by $14 dollars the "first people's" got a fortune for something they viewed as worthless.

    Also were most "first people's" really there first? Or did they also displace other people that were there before them?
    I mean the last point is literally my main point that populations shift. But fine then not every American then. But England, Turkey, Russia, Spain, north Africa were all conquered with previous inhabitants wiped out, displayed or incorporated.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuliwyfZRage View Post
    She really reminds me with these eyes of the Älfar from The Dwarves and The Älfar, one hell of a book series.

    I am not entirely sure though, is it really confirmed that Tyrande is mad overall against the whole Horde or is her prime focus Sylvanas and Nathanos?
    I know she let Saurfang live because he did not finish off Malfurion, dunno if she hates Baine and Lorthemar just as much though for example.

    Its about damn time the Alliance dismantles the Horde just like Varian warned them if they fuck up again, thats something long overdue.
    This would be the expansion for that to happen.

    I promise you the next expansion will be another apocalyptic bad guy making the horde and alliance team up to stop. Again. And Tyrande becomes the Taran Zhu lore character never seen again.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    No I’m just tired of people like you getting threatened by the increased presence of female characters in the story when up until now WoW has been nothing but men.
    Firstly, no. It hasn't been. Maybe the majority of leaders have been male? But there has been a prevalent number of female characters in WoW. It isn't mysogeny-town. Stop acting like it is.

    Second, I don't think the vast majority of people talking about how overwhelming the number of female characters is bothering them have direct issues with female leaders. I think their biggest issue, and this is just an assumption on my part, is that it's something akin to forced diversity. Diversity is great. We need more of it. But when you are using it just for the sake of marking off some socially acceptable checkbox, it feels forced and pandering. A good example is the all female squad scene in Avengers Endgame. They shoe-horned a moment with ALL of these female characters coming in to save the day. And, it just felt... forced. It was an uncomfortable moment, because suddenly in the wake of the last two to three years of the "me too" society, we feel we have to over-emphasize females and give them props to make them feel validated. And it's mostly men writing these scenes and moments. And it's unfortunate.

    I take no issue with the the sudden presence of female leaders in WoW. I am happy they are acknowledging strong women in game. But I think to do a wide sweep that shoves a whole bunch of female characters to the front of the story, "just because" does them a disservice. We don't need girl-power moments in movies and games to show that female characters and leads can be badass.

    And I think that's the issue most are having. It feels like its forced. Which almost smacks of white knighting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    the Old Horde were right for purging the space goats
    Why? Why were they right for basically what became a wholesale slaughter of innocent and peaceful people? The only reason the orcs turned on the Draenei, and it's the ONLY reason, is because they were fed a light by way of Ner'zhul who had been fed a lie by Kil'jaeden.

    Draenei didn't land on Draenor and start killing orc and taking the land. They lived together in harmony, peacefully. And then the Legion came. Which, yes was unfortunate. And a direct result of the Draenei being there. But the orcs could have had them leave. And I believe the Draenei would have complied. Instead, nope... lets get all demonincally blood-lusty and just slay the shit out of them.

    And while we are on the topic, how EXACTLY where the Trolls invaders? Given they were pretty much the original humanoid species on Azeroth?

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Oakshana View Post
    Firstly, no. It hasn't been. Maybe the majority of leaders have been male? But there has been a prevalent number of female characters in WoW. It isn't mysogeny-town. Stop acting like it is.

    Second, I don't think the vast majority of people talking about how overwhelming the number of female characters is bothering them have direct issues with female leaders. I think their biggest issue, and this is just an assumption on my part, is that it's something akin to forced diversity. Diversity is great. We need more of it. But when you are using it just for the sake of marking off some socially acceptable checkbox, it feels forced and pandering. A good example is the all female squad scene in Avengers Endgame. They shoe-horned a moment with ALL of these female characters coming in to save the day. And, it just felt... forced. It was an uncomfortable moment, because suddenly in the wake of the last two to three years of the "me too" society, we feel we have to over-emphasize females and give them props to make them feel validated. And it's mostly men writing these scenes and moments. And it's unfortunate.

    I take no issue with the the sudden presence of female leaders in WoW. I am happy they are acknowledging strong women in game. But I think to do a wide sweep that shoves a whole bunch of female characters to the front of the story, "just because" does them a disservice. We don't need girl-power moments in movies and games to show that female characters and leads can be badass.

    And I think that's the issue most are having. It feels like its forced. Which almost smacks of white knighting.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Why? Why were they right for basically what became a wholesale slaughter of innocent and peaceful people? The only reason the orcs turned on the Draenei, and it's the ONLY reason, is because they were fed a light by way of Ner'zhul who had been fed a lie by Kil'jaeden.

    Draenei didn't land on Draenor and start killing orc and taking the land. They lived together in harmony, peacefully. And then the Legion came. Which, yes was unfortunate. And a direct result of the Draenei being there. But the orcs could have had them leave. And I believe the Draenei would have complied. Instead, nope... lets get all demonincally blood-lusty and just slay the shit out of them.

    And while we are on the topic, how EXACTLY where the Trolls invaders? Given they were pretty much the original humanoid species on Azeroth?
    Others dudes argument was aliens have not right to life on a foreign planet. I dont agree.

    Trolls invaded each other and probably other races as well since they owned basically the entire world at one point. They also sent the ice trolls to kill Aqir in the north. Or because Aqir possibly aren't humanoid do they not count?

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Oakshana View Post
    Second, I don't think the vast majority of people talking about how overwhelming the number of female characters is bothering them have direct issues with female leaders. I think their biggest issue, and this is just an assumption on my part, is that it's something akin to forced diversity. Diversity is great. We need more of it. But when you are using it just for the sake of marking off some socially acceptable checkbox, it feels forced and pandering...I take no issue with the the sudden presence of female leaders in WoW. I am happy they are acknowledging strong women in game. But I think to do a wide sweep that shoves a whole bunch of female characters to the front of the story, "just because" does them a disservice. We don't need girl-power moments in movies and games to show that female characters and leads can be badass.

    And I think that's the issue most are having. It feels like its forced. Which almost smacks of white knighting.
    I presume you're talking about the allied race leaders, since other race leaders are predominantly male and haven't changed much.
    • Void Elves - Alleria was shown to be the first elf to master the void. She shares the leadership with Magister Umbric after offering them her support. Doesn't feel very forced (particularly since it's a shared leadership).
    • Lightforged - Captain Fareeya was seen before the allied race was revealed, and the other likely candidates (Velen, Turalyon) aren't lightforged draenei, so it makes sense that she was chosen.
    • Dark Iron Dwarves - Moira was established as the leader of the dark iron since Classic. It would be really odd not to have her.
    • Kul'Tiran - Jaina is older than WoW and, particularly with how her story resolved with Kul'tiras, it would be really odd for it not to be her.
    • Highmountain Tauren - Mayla Highmountain is the leader of the Highmountain tribes, with an entire zone story establishing her position. Again, having a different leader would be really odd.
    • Nightborne - Thalyssra, like the other Legion-released allied races, was pre-established as an influential person for the nightborne. With their queen overthrown, it makes sense that she was the one to step into the leadership role.
    • Mag'har Orcs - It feels like the developers were going for a "mirror world" effect with Geya'rah, swapping the gender of the Warchief to be more of a parallel universe reflection on Thrall (even though Thrall existed and died as an infant in that timeline IIRC).
    • Zandalari - Talanji is the only living heir to the throne (at least that I'm aware of). It would be out-of-character for the Zandalari to bypass her due to some gender dispute.

    Of those, the choice of Lightforged leader, Geya'rah, and Talanji are the only ones that seem like they could've been swapped to a male character to me.

    Fareeya was one of the first lightforged draenei we encountered, but I never got the impression she led the forces on Argus (then again, Turalyon, Velen, Alleria, and Illidan stole most of the spotlight there); I could see a different lightforged having been selected, but I don't feel bad that she was the one selected.

    Talanji was never mentioned before BfA to my knowledge, so they could have used a male heir instead, but with Zul and Rastakahn already being prominent male Zandalari, I liked having a prominent female Zandalari in the mix.

    Geya'rah is entering an almost all female cast as allied race leaders, but she also comes from a world with an overwhelmingly male cast. We only saw a few notable female mag'har orcs from alternate Draenor (most notably Draka and Azuka), so it makes sense to include a new prominent female character for the allied race.

    So yes, when you look at eight races and all of them have a female leader, it looks forced. When you look at them individually, the decisions make sense, at least to me.

  16. #156
    Priestess mad y'all.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by joebob42 View Post
    No. The scourge plague was created by Ner'zhul. The Forsaken were part of the scourge. The fact that they broke free of the Lich King's control is irrelevant to the fact that they would never have become the Forsaken if not for the actions of an orc.
    Ner'zhul may have been an orc, but the power to create the plague was given by the eredar. The spread of the plague was from a human. The freeing of the undead from the Lich King's control was from a night elf. I don't think you'd have the Forsaken if Kil'jaeden, Kel'thuzad, or Illidan weren't part of the equation. Particularly given Ner'zhul did what he did under duress with the Nathrezim jailers watching over him, I really wouldn't hold the Forsaken's creation against orcs (there's plenty that I would hold against them, but this isn't one of them).

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Astalnar View Post
    Does that mean we can rebuild Orgrimmar into something that doesn't look like a favela on the verge of colapsing?
    This right here, Orgrimmar looks like a strip mine that somebody dumped a bunch of leftovers from a real city into, to build huts with.

  19. #159
    Part of me is like "yessssss please" but the other part is saying "but this is post-Sylvanas, she'd be framed as a villain for doing so." which would drive me up the wall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  20. #160
    Second pic makes her look like she's taking a dump. Or she looks like Trump. Or she looks like Trump taking a dump. Or maybe that's just how they both always look.

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