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  1. #321
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Let's try this a different way. Are you ok with doxxing someone who's statements are found to be offensive?
    Define "doxxing" for me, first.

    Because a lot of people have tried to argue that someone who publicly states personal information on the same social media they're posting the racist bullshit on are being "doxxed" because people can read their other social media posts, which is obviously ridiculous.

    I'll also note you're moving goalposts, here. Any potential issue I'm gonna have is gonna be based on the lines this "someone" had to cross to gain access to the information they "doxxed". Which means you're introducing new issues, which is moving goalposts.


  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Malaky View Post
    Maybe he shouldn't have started throwing rocks when living in a house of glass himself.
    But you're regarding the guy getting "cancelled" as justice, ie you are agreeing with the principle of "cancel culture".

    I mean, that's fine, just don't try to pretend you hate "cancel culture" in the future, because you absolutely love it when it suits your purposes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ooid View Post
    Jessica Price: Shit talked the people who messaged her politely and made a general ass of herself on twitter.
    Kathy Griffin: Held up an effigy of the president's severed head.
    Allison Rapp: Holy fuck that's a messy situation I can't make heads or tails of. Officially Nintendo claims it's because she had a second job "in conflict with company culture". I think she was doing modeling or was working as an escort if I remember right.
    Zoe Quinn: You're going to have to tell me how she got canceled because as far as I can tell she's doing just fine. Aside from you know, driving a guy to kill himself.
    Trayvon Martin: I don't see how getting into a fight with someone and then getting shot is cancel culture.
    Anita Sarkeesian: There has never been any proof that the threats she claimed to have gotten were legitimate. The FBI investigated some of them and they found nothing.
    Jeremiah Wright: First one I see as legitimately wrong. The crazy shit he said in his sermons was used to attack President Obama. I doubt many really cared about the content of the sermons they just found a new way to attack Obama as un-American. I don't like the excerpts I found but he's free to say it since it was his church.
    Janeane Garofolo: I never heard of this one. It looks like she asked people to ease off Louis CK when everyone found out about the weird shit he pressured women into doing with him? People were out for blood so I'm not surprised they set their sights on her when she dared to defend him.
    Jade Raymond: Wait she got canceled? When? I can't find anything on it.
    The Dixie Chicks: I think the reaction was dumb but come on, bashing the US a few years after 9/11? There was going to be blow back from that given how crazy everyone was at the time.
    Sinead O'Connor: Haha oh wow that quote on Wikipedia
    So in short, "I love cancel culture provided it applies to people that I've decided are in the wrong".

    Sure, you go ahead and believe that. Just don't fool yourself into thinking you aren't in favour of cancel culture. You are.
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  3. #323
    Herald of the Titans Vorkreist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It's your claim that you have yet to back up. Calling other people liars, because you cannot defend your own claims seems rather foolish.
    Sure. The antifa threads are right there. I understand they can't take the time from organizing twitter gangs to actually search.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Of course it is. This isn't an argument.

    Here's the thing, let's say I tweet out "Man, fuck pencils. Stupid lead always breaking. Pencils can fuck off and die." Someone finds that, and publicizes it. Am I gonna lose my job? Is there gonna be a Twitter mob attacking me? Or is it just a silly comment that isn't really all that offensive?

    Now, imagine I wasn't talking about "Pencils", but "Muslims". With some racistly-appropriate middle sentence. Probably gonna get some consequences if THAT kind of racism comes to light, right?

    The reason there's a difference is because offense is relative. This is already part of the process. It's accounted for, inherently. Because if people just don't find something offensive, there won't be an outcry against it.

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    You've yet to provide even one example of anyone making the claim.

    A lot of folks have said "Antifa isn't an organization, it's a movement". Or "there's no membership roster or conduct guidelines for Antifa, beyond resisting fascist encroachment".

    I haven't seen anyone claim they don't exist.

    Thats what I meant. That attempt to paint that violent group as something everyone is a part of just for being against fascism.
    You can't criticize it because if you do you must be a fascist.
    The same tactic of saying cancel culture doesn't exist. Its just that all the "normal" people that do that ganging up to ruin other peoples lives and not sj warlords with no occupation.

  4. #324
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Interesting how I'm the only one ever required to provide facts and citation. I don't mind it. I just want you to tell me why.
    I just did. You're just choosing to ignore it.

    And if you wanna go down this road, to undermine people's argument by asserting that they only care when it's "rich white men", despite the fact that, you know, the target of the story of this thread is not one, you're gonna have to provide some better examples then Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkesian, interestingly enough, rich white women, or at least white women try to make bank based on their victimhood scam. After all, wasn't Quinn the on that got some sort of gofundme or Patreon going to fund her indie project, got the money and years later there was no sign of any game?

  5. #325
    The Revolution devours its children.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  6. #326
    Bloodsail Admiral Misuteri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    Don't be racist. IDGAF if you were 30, 16, or 3 years old when you said your racist bullshit. Actions have consequences, end of story.
    And people wonder why large swaths of the population laugh at wokesters and take nothing they say seriously anymore.

    Funny part, he has no idea why he’s a walking joke.

    The Internet; proving the depth of human stupidity has no bottom.
    Last edited by Misuteri; 2019-10-02 at 11:34 AM.
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  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    Sure. The antifa threads are right there. I understand they can't take the time from organizing twitter gangs to actually search.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Thats what I meant. That attempt to paint that violent group as something everyone is a part of just for being against fascism.
    You can't criticize it because if you do you must be a fascist.
    The same tactic of saying cancel culture doesn't exist. Its just that all the "normal" people that do that ganging up to ruin other peoples lives and not sj warlords with no occupation.
    So, you are telling me to look up the evidence to back up your claim?

    Very well, I took a gander, and it says you are wrong.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    But you're regarding the guy getting "cancelled" as justice, ie you are agreeing with the principle of "cancel culture".
    Only if you can't see the difference between victim and perpetrator, attacker and attacked.

    For example I don't agree with the principle of murder, but if a wannabe murderer were to royally fuck up and kill himself instead of its intended victim I'd be more than happy to cheer for that event.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Yes, I think a company should be legally allowed to refuse to serve black people.
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    Right now the left is fact based

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Malaky View Post
    Only if you can't see the difference between victim and perpetrator, attacker and attacked.

    For example I don't agree with the principle of murder, but if a wannabe murderer were to royally fuck up and kill himself instead of its intended victim I'd be more than happy to cheer for that event.
    This only makes sense if you don’t see racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, islamophobia, anti-semitism, and the like as attacks on people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    I just did. You're just choosing to ignore it.
    No. You just demanded a bunch of stuff from me because you don’t like me for reasons you refuse to elaborate on.

    And if you wanna go down this road, to undermine people's argument by asserting that they only care when it's "rich white men", despite the fact that, you know, the target of the story of this thread is not one, you're gonna have to provide some better examples then Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkesian, interestingly enough, rich white women, or at least white women try to make bank based on their victimhood scam. After all, wasn't Quinn the on that got some sort of gofundme or Patreon going to fund her indie project, got the money and years later there was no sign of any game?
    My my my. This sounds like a judgement. The greatest sin of them all.
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  10. #330
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    So, you are telling me to look up the evidence to back up your claim?

    Very well, I took a gander, and it says you are wrong.
    Just report him for lying and move on. No point when he clearly doesn't even want to try.
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  11. #331
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    It's essentially boycotting or refusing to support/keep contact with people or commercial entities that behave in a manner offensive to a group. As much as people want to spin it as a gen-X, millenial, liberal thing--it isn't.

    When your dad says to never mention a sports player again, because he didn't say the pledge? That's cancel culture. A buzzword people make up for something humanity has done since civilization. Cutting association due to something perceived offensive, for whatever reason. In this case, "cancel culture" is being used to describe the common practice of muckraking.
    Well said. The buzz term, "cancel culture" is just a bratty way of explaining something that literally everyone does whether they acknowledge it or not.
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  12. #332
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    No. You just demanded a bunch of stuff from me because you don’t like me for reasons you refuse to elaborate on.



    My my my. This sounds like a judgement. The greatest sin of them all.
    Interesting. Has my memory become foggy already? How did my previous remarks gain the connotation of a personal attack towards you?

    Yes, don't you just love it? It's nice to wallow in the filth of one's own hypocrisy.

  13. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    No. We won't. You're stating things that are flatly incorrect.

    You can refuse to change your tune when confronted with the facts, and insist on continuing to be wrong, but that's not "agreeing to disagree". We're not having a difference of opinion, here. You're objectively wrong. Your hypothetical Person B did nothing but engage in protected free speech.
    So you are ok with stuff like this, right?

    Planned Parenthood has been building a secret abortion "mega-clinic" in Illinois

    Quote Originally Posted by CBS News
    After over a year of secret construction, Planned Parenthood announced its newest abortion facility on Wednesday: an 18,000-square-foot mega-clinic in southern Illinois. The new location is just 13 miles away from Missouri's last remaining abortion clinic, a facility in St. Louis fighting to keep its license.

    Since August 2018, Planned Parenthood has used a shell company to construct the facility, leaving no public trace that the former medical office would become one of the largest abortion clinics in the country. CBS News first visited the site in August, while it was still being built.

    Colleen McNicholas, the chief medical officer of Planned Parenthood of the St. Louis Region and Southwest Missouri, said the facility was built in secret to avoid protestors and delays. Other Planned Parenthood projects had run into problems once the public realized the construction was for an abortion provider. In one instance, a communications company had refused to install telephone and data lines; in another, a cabinet maker never delivered an order, McNicholas said. In Birmingham, Alabama, protestors targeted Planned Parenthood's suppliers, flooding their social media accounts with fake negative reviews.
    Since their detractors are doing nothing but engaging in protected free speech after all...

  14. #334
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    So you are ok with stuff like this, right?
    How on earth is this relevant to cancel culture?

    And no, if you can't see the difference between not employing a racist and actually making it more difficult for people to access healthcare that's on you, bub.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  15. #335
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    So you are ok with stuff like this, right?

    Planned Parenthood has been building a secret abortion "mega-clinic" in Illinois

    Since their detractors are doing nothing but engaging in protected free speech after all...
    With what, exactly?

    That people can protest things like the building of an abortion clinic? Yep, perfectly okay with that.

    With the almost-universally misogynistic content of those particular protests? Not even a little, but that's an issue that can be "fixed" by more speech and awareness.

    That they're doing things like posting fake negative reviews? That's likely illegal, given that it's fraudulent activity intended to harm their business. So track those posting such reviews and charge them, where appropriate.


  16. #336
    Titan I Push Buttons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    How on earth is this relevant to cancel culture?
    Did you even read the article excerpt?

    Planned Parenthood has to build facilities in secret because when people find out abortions will be performed at the facilities all hell breaks loose... Most notably, suppliers back out because 'protesters' start spamming review sites with negative reviews to try and destroy their businesses.

    And its not defamation because they aren't lying about anything in particular; just posting reviews like "0/10 This evil company supports Planned Parenthood!"...

  17. #337
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    Did you even read the article excerpt?

    Planned Parenthood has to build facilities in secret because when people find out abortions will be performed at the facilities all hell breaks loose... Most notably, suppliers back out because 'protesters' start spamming review sites with negative reviews to try and destroy their businesses.

    And its not defamation because they aren't lying about anything in particular; just posting reviews like "0/10 This evil company supports Planned Parenthood!"...
    Again; if you can't see the difference between being unwilling to employ a bigot and a concerted effort to make it more difficult for women to access healthcare, that's an indictment of you, not "cancel culture".

    You seem to be of the opinion that someone's platform is a function of how loud they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  18. #338
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Morally they're different, but the "freedom" issue remains the same.

    It's just that we tend to view one as acceptable and the other as not, so we kinda fudge our views on the "freedom" aspect for what we see as the greater good.
    Yeah, no.

    The core difference is that the judgement is based on the context and character of the speech. It always has been. So well-intended "hey, did you guys realize your staff member was being publicly racist?" type comments is a really far cry from "OMG THIS CENTER KILLED MY BABY THEY KILL BABIES NUKE THE ABORTION DOCTORS DIE DIE DIE" anti-abortion bullshit.

    They may both be "protected speech", but it's like the difference between getting a tattoo in memory of your dead mom, and getting a swastika tattoo because "WHITE POWER MAN". If you're gonna tell me you can't see a difference, I'm going to straight-up assume you're lying, because that shit's obvious.


  19. #339
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Yeah, the fake review part is flatly wrong and shouldn't be tolerated.

    But approaching said suppliers and protesting them in the hopes that they pull support is the same "cancel culture" strategy. I personally think it's a shitty thing to do here, but if we're ok with one on the grounds of their freedom, I don't see how we can oppose the other.
    I think social consequence is all we need, in both cases.

    In the case of the racists getting fired for being racist, society is saying "fuck you, you're racist, stop that."

    In the case of anti-abortion protesting, society is generally saying "fuck you, you're misogynist religious extremists, stop that", and targeting the protestors. Planned Parenthood's facility is still getting built. Nothing's stopping it. They're just trying to mitigate the possibility of interference during construction.

    This shit works itself out, for the most part.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    The point seems to have eluded you, which is strange because I spelled out the difference pretty clearly. I suspect you just said, "Potential disagreement?! Attack!!!" before you really thought it through.

    In fact, you even agreed with what I was saying in your previous post where you stated you're fine with the protesting. Which is literally all I said - that if we're ok with protests and whatnot for one thing in the name of freedom, we can't very well NOT be ok with protests for other reasons, even if we don't like those reasons.

    So yeah, take a step back there, champ.
    Again, you're trying to make the case that "if you're for protests for A, you must be for protests for B". This is based on a false premise, that our support for A's protests is on "that they are protests".

    They're based on the principles for which A is protesting. Which aren't the same for B, which explains why we can support one cause and not the other.

    It's entirely separate from "yeah, technically, they have freedom of speech". Someone's legally allowed to be racist on social media. And everyone else is free to say "yeah, that's pretty racist" and respond accordingly, including firing the person. Conversely, someone has the same "freedom" to say "I love puppies", but they're probably not getting fired for that.

    Because the whole issue is about the message, not the medium. Pointing out that the medium is just as legally protected in both cases misses the point.


  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    So, freedom of speech is working exactly as intended... great.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You don't think people should be able to be fired for what they say... until they are fired for what they say?

    You really aren't being very consistent.

    And yes, that makes your last sentence quite ironic.
    No, the reporter shouldn't have been fired for tweets he made 8 years ago. He should have been fired for making a hit piece on a guy for tweets that he made 8 years ago, when he was an edgy kid. The fact that this guy has raised so much money to help kids completely erases any "evil" he did as a teenager.

    But the fact that this reporter got fired for doing basically the exact same thing as the guy he made the hit piece on is poetic justice, even if it isn't right.

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