Is gallywix only horde leader left that feels like member of his race?

[cparle87]

Yeah i dunno why gazlowe isnt the leader of the goblins

Because the goblins who are in the Horde are members of the Bilgewater Cartel while Gazlowe is a high ranking member (but not leader, that's Baron Revilgaz) of the Blacksail Raiders who also control and run Booty Bay who are neutral.

[Rhlor]

Oh yeah, nothing feels more goblin that lawful good.

A true genius engineer, a person who has true abilities as a leader and who in turn knows how to earn money without risking the lives of his people! someone who founded orgrimmar!

[AcidicSyn]

Forsaken I can agree with. I don't think Calia fits at all with their motifs of heavy metal, cruelty, and self loathing. In other incidents the lack of leader figure at all kind of devalues the argument.

Nothing wrong with Lor'themar. What are you wanting exactly, more fel draining? They fixed the magic addiction issue in BC.

Would be interesting to see where they're getting those blood golems though.

Do the BE's Blood Golems still need Anima to be made? Or are the Blood Golems still just the same arsenal the Blood Knights acquired from the Throne of Thunder?
I've heard Alliance side incursions show Blood Mages harvesting life essence from Torgas body; maybe that's how they get more Anima to create more golems?

[Arrashi]

A true genius engineer, a person who has true abilities as a leader and who in turn knows how to earn money without risking the lives of his people! someone who founded orgrimmar!

Wheres fun in that?

[Rhlor]

This right here. Gazlowe definitely embodies the goblin race more than Gallywix does. However, Gally might embody the Bildgewater Goblins more than Gazlowe does. Gazlowe is far from lawful good, hilarious to see him described that way lol. He's just a shrewd business goblin and plays the long game when it comes to profit, rather than the short game. They both reflect two sides of the Goblin coin; Gally is all about short term gain consequences be damned, Gazlowe pays more attention to the larger picture and prefers to secure his profits well into the future.

imo of course.

The big difference is that Gazlowe is a true genius Ingeniro! Super intelligence and the ability to create machines is something important for goblins!

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Wheres fun in that?

that if someone is going to be a racial leader they have to worry about their race

[Varitok]

Gallywix is the worst traits of the goblin race taken to the extreme - he's like Baine, essentially. Gazlowe or Boss Mida should rule the goblins instead

See, You see character consistency as flanderization. Baine always seeks peace, he doesn't want war for his people, That is called consistency in writing and even at great cost to himself does he hold up his ideals. This board is full of a lot of people who hate consistent characters like Anduin and Baine. They want some morally grey murderers leading every faction like it's fucking GoT or some shit.

[buffolone]

I think Thalyrssra is a great representative of her race. Inquisitive and somewhat prideful as the Nightborne should be.

[Nathanyel]

But goblins don't have good traits. Gallywix is basically the gobliniest goblin to over goblin.

Are you confusing Warcraft with Warhammer or another universe? While Warcraft's Goblins definitely are based on the "ruthless trader" trope, too, the universe has also (since WC3, possibly WC2) tried to portray protagonist races as not nust good or bad, most notably with the Orcs, but also the Goblins.
Compared to other races, they're definitely more focused on capitalism, opportunism and reckless engineering, but while there certainly are those characters that would fit right into these other universes with Goblins as well, the race as a whole has been portrayed more moderately.

Galliwyx, who basically enslaved the player character, a CEO of a subcompany in the Bilgewater Cartel and a candidate for racial leader themselves, and everyone else trying to escape Kezan, always was a jarring protagonist leader in the context of the Warcraft universe, especially when previously known neutral Goblin leaders such as Gazlowe and Noggenfogger came across as way more likeable, the "Goblin" aspect of their personality more showing in quirks than defining the entire character.

[Arrashi]

Are you confusing Warcraft with Warhammer or another universe? While Warcraft's Goblins definitely are based on the "ruthless trader" trope, too, the universe has also (since WC3, possibly WC2) tried to portray protagonist races as not nust good or bad, most notably with the Orcs, but also the Goblins.
Compared to other races, they're definitely more focused on capitalism, opportunism and reckless engineering, but while there certainly are those characters that would fit right into these other universes with Goblins as well, the race as a whole has been portrayed more moderately.

Galliwyx, who basically enslaved the player character, a CEO of a subcompany in the Bilgewater Cartel and a candidate for racial leader themselves, and everyone else trying to escape Kezan, always was a jarring protagonist leader in the context of the Warcraft universe, especially when previously known neutral Goblin leaders such as Gazlowe and Noggenfogger came across as way more likeable, the "Goblin" aspect of their personality more showing in quirks than defining the entire character.

I dunno, there is that goblin chick that sends you to kill her brother who has bounty on his head, and when you do it she and her family cheers because "he is finally worth something".

[cparle87]

Gallywix is the Tradeprince of the Bilgewater Cartel only for the fact he has most of the Cartel's money after Kezan erupted and he made every goblin that wanted to escape pay him basically everything they own. It was going to be your PC goblin up until that happened.

He was their Prince before all the goblin players gave him their money. All the other goblins npcs were HOPING you would eventually, some time in the near future hopefully, overthrow him because he was such a dick.

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I dunno, there is that goblin chick that sends you to kill her brother who has bounty on his head, and when you do it she and her family cheers because "he is finally worth something".

Yeah, not to mention she was, you know, working for the Scourge in providing raw materials to make something that could've easily made them a global, as opposed to a regional, threat.

[Terongor]

He's also the former chief engineer of the Horde and the leader of the greasemonkies, a Horde affiliated combat expedition team (island expos).

He may not "hate" the alliance, but that's where it ends, he still maintains loose affiliation with the Horde.

He likes Gold far more than faction loyalties at the end of the day though; which imo, is what makes Gazlowe the more accurate embodiment of Goblins.

Gallywixes decision to side with the Horde, and therefore cutting himself off from half the worlds profit, actually makes him less stereotypically Goblin to me, and I say that as a huge fan of the Gallywix character.

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Bolded bit is spot on, made me choke on my coffee. Points for you sir.

Yeah former and now he is part of neutral faction and their greatest engineer most likely and steamwheedle cartel would unlike just let one of their faction leaders and greatest sources of income go and most likely they were hired.

Also Gazlowe main aim is still inventions and profit and being neutral is far more benefitial as such he isn't a horde member its like saying rastakhan was a member of the horde. Also Gazlowe siding with horde rebels and alliance isn't goblin like as being side which is more likely to lose according to their numbers isn't goblin like(alliance and horde rebels had troops for ONE attack on orgrimmar remaining and they even said if it fails sylvanas is going to win and the leaders aknowledged that sylvanas has only great enough force on azeroth to battle n'zoth anymore so how its goblin like to choose the losing side and work with gnomes?

Gallywix was pretty much forced thou and Gallywix has pretty much monopoly on everything in horde and can decide the price and horde recources will always nearly freely help him like see his project with sargerases sword.

Also Gazlowe isn't horde character as he isn't a member of the horde.

[Powerogue]

Do the BE's Blood Golems still need Anima to be made? Or are the Blood Golems still just the same arsenal the Blood Knights acquired from the Throne of Thunder?
I've heard Alliance side incursions show Blood Mages harvesting life essence from Torgas body; maybe that's how they get more Anima to create more golems?

I had the headcanon that they re-enslaved the titan keeper where the original ones came from and are storing him in Muru's old room but that would also be cool to explore.

[TheImperios]

See, You see character consistency as flanderization. Baine always seeks peace, he doesn't want war for his people, That is called consistency in writing and even at great cost to himself does he hold up his ideals. This board is full of a lot of people who hate consistent characters like Anduin and Baine. They want some morally grey murderers leading every faction like it's fucking GoT or some shit.

You seem to confuse consistency with lack of character growth. With Anduin this is particularly jarring: you'd expect him to at least try (and fail) to project strength when he becomes High King, and become more willing to fight, but no, same old pacifist.

Ideally? There should be more Alliance murderers and less Horde murderers than now. Baine is fine, because he is the only pacifist leader in the Horde, Anduin... not so much

[qwerty123456]

Baine is exactly like his race. To think a race that is so connected to nature would be a warmonger that is totally fine with blighting anyone they didn't agree with and causing large amounts of land to be uninhabitable is silly. If he was a power hungry Grimtotem you could maybe say he he out of character but even then its a stretch.

You seem to confuse consistency with lack of character growth. With Anduin this is particularly jarring: you'd expect him to at least try (and fail) to project strength when he becomes High King, and become more willing to fight, but no, same old pacifist.

Ideally? There should be more Alliance murderers and less Horde murderers than now. Baine is fine, because he is the only pacifist leader in the Horde, Anduin... not so much

The dude raided Undercity and went to raid Org. How many cities does he need to attack to no longer be called a Pacifist?

Some people like logic and realism in their stories over having x number of alliance murders.

[Aresk]

I feel like Gallywix isn't true to any of the goblins I generally see. Gallywix doesn't want to do anything; he just wants things and wants others to get those things for him. Most goblins I've seen have ambition and curiosity and reckless inventiveness: Gallywix feels like he just has greed. Despite only being horde about 80% of the time, I feel like Gazlowe is more appropriate.

Darkspear*: Rokhan feels fine for me. He's literally the first named darkspear troll that is playable in WC3 and the standard to which I held Vol'jin to.
Undead*: I personally like Voss. Determination and focus with a willingness to sacrifice whatever is necessary to accomplish her goals.
Tauren: Baine seems spot on to me. Cairne allied with Thrall because Thrall saved his people from the centaur. Baine forged his friendship with Anduin because Anduin saved his people from the Grimtotem. I don't see that much of a difference between the two.
Orc*: Despite only being half-orc, I feel Rexxar is the best fit for ferocity and connection to the earth that Blizzard tried selling the WC3 Horde on. I don't feel we have any good analogs for the orc veterans from Blackhand/Doomhammer/Hellscream's hordes (maybe Nazgrim, if he's still considered Horde).
Blood Elf: I feel like Lor'themar has the sophistication and refinement that the blood elves are supposed to have. He's a little more disciplined than a lot of the NPCs we saw back in TBC, but otherwise I feel he fits.
Pandaren: Ji doesn't really have enough personality for me to evaluate. Aside from the starting zone and that one part of Siege of Orgrimmar, has he done anything?

I haven't done the Mag'har recruitment chain, so I'm not sure about that one, but the other allied race leaders seem to be the ideal of their people.

Edit: I went with my thoughts for who the next leader should be for the * since they don't really have one at present.

[Zuben]

Nah, Gallywix is a sociopath. Your typical goblin might be more inclined to seek monetary profit than other races, but they don't utterly lack empathy.

[cparle87]

Orc*: Despite only being half-orc, I feel Rexxar is the best fit for ferocity and connection to the earth that Blizzard tried selling the WC3 Horde on. I don't feel we have any good analogs for the orc veterans from Blackhand/Doomhammer/Hellscream's hordes (maybe Nazgrim, if he's still considered Horde).

How about we shake the dust off Nazgrel? Did quite a bit in WC3 and the Cycle of Hatred novel. But since then not much. He was a questgiver in Razor Hill for like 5 quests tops, then did quite a bit in BC as the commander of Thrallmar in Hellfire Penninsula. Then nothing. Literally his very next mention is just standing there with the other Horde leaders when you got Prestige 2 in Legion and got a skin. No lines, nothing. And nothing from him since.

Wowpedia even had this to say. "It is unknown whether or not Nazgrel gave full support to Warchief Garrosh Hellscream's hyper-aggressive moves against the Alliance as Nazgrel has not been mentioned since the Burning Crusade." He is literally the orc Blizzard forgot. At least Rokhan had some quests in Wrath before he re-emerged in BFA.

[Faerillis]

This thread: Remember when the Horde was generic bad guys no one could empathize with? I 'member.

Now do I wish they would actually make the leader's more grey? HELL YES. Bring back the Silvermoon Police State where Lor'themar was either trying hard to keep control OR unaware that Rommath was abusing the power of the Guards because he doesn't actually get politics. Let Orcs have a different sense of Honour than the western world — I mean a huge chunk of the appeal of playing the Horde is not playing a super western faction — that does have some value to violence (in all fairness the Mag'har seem to do this). Zekhan seems very unlikely as the Troll racial leader, yes a named and important character, but you don't put a rookie in charge, and the Trolls are hardly shown as some clean overly nice faction.

[Jshadowhunter]

Nah, Gallywix is a sociopath. Your typical goblin might be more inclined to seek monetary profit than other races, but they don't utterly lack empathy.

That's what happens when you're a child and s bunch of ashats steal your cookie.

[Rafoel]

It feels like Blizzard uses facton leaders as an engine for their moral lectures. Just look:

Anduin, humans - Goodness incarnate, puts all his efforts at removing the prejudice ingrained in Alliance, end all war, and achieve eternal peace with alien invaders that destroyed his grandfather's kingdom. He exists mainly to show others the errors of their ways.

Tyrande, night elves - Her hordephobia and prejudice make her unable to understand the grandeour of Anduin, and instead wage "pointless" war that will ultimately, somehow, doom her. This will make all night elves repent and join Anduin in his paradise.

Genn, worgen - Accompanying Anduin already showed him the errors of his ways, specifically his approach to Forsaken. While still having a long way to go, he will eventually learn to let go of hatred and prejudice and serve as stellar example for all his people. From biggest warmonger to biggest supporter of peace, what a "glorious" character development will it be!

Sorry guys run out of time for other leaders. But you get the point.