The Experience Which Every Expansion Has Lost.

[Rainyhealz]

Here's the thing. Your entire argument is based on two things. Twitch numbers, which INCLUDE retail (something you ignore) and statements like "IF" they got 1m subs - a completely made up number you just think sounds good.

You also failed to provide any data at all on the costings and investments blizzard have made, including the extensive marketing and advertising.

Tl:dr you are basing your opinion on made up numbers and misunderstood statistics.

Lol @ retail twitch numbers. Those 10 streams with 100 views were a big part of it

[arkanon]

Lol @ retail twitch numbers. Those 10 streams with 100 views were a big part of it

Yeah, that's it, ignore that the arena champs were on at the time mentioned. Typical. Ignore the rest of the post. Good work.

Ignoring the fact this was in response to someone claiming classic was, without a doubt, a financial success.

I don't see anyone denying it was popular at first. But everyone who used things like mmoc forum numbers as a measure are strangely absent right now. Might it be because even though the classic forum leaked slightly above retail on week one, it is now less than half of the retail general forum.

[Noxina]

Here's the thing. Your entire argument is based on two things. Twitch numbers, which INCLUDE retail (something you ignore) and statements like "IF" they got 1m subs - a completely made up number you just think sounds good.

You also failed to provide any data at all on the costings and investments blizzard have made, including the extensive marketing and advertising.

Tl:dr you are basing your opinion on made up numbers and misunderstood statistics.

Haha retail, good one.

Yeah, we don't have accurate numbers because Blizzard isn't releasing them. But there is no doubt Classic was a huge success, both moneywise and publicity.

Keep living in denial, but it won't magically make Classic dissapear for you.

[Cyrusx]

What's up with the Classic haters here? What's the point in your posts?

A lot of retail players seem genuinely triggered that classic has taken many players away. Many of the guys in my classic guild were playing retail previously, so I imagine there are a lot of guilds out there annoyed by the player loss. It's bad enough that BFA is basically dead, now they have to contend with classic too. I think it will take a new expansion to get all these millions of players back to retail.

Of course they will deny this passive-aggressively but I don't see why else they would trawl through the classic section so negatively.

[TheRevenantHero]

A lot of retail players seem genuinely triggered that classic has taken many players away. Many of the guys in my classic guild were playing retail previously, so I imagine there are a lot of guilds out there annoyed by the player loss. It's bad enough that BFA is basically dead, now they have to contend with classic too. I think it will take a new expansion to get all these millions of players back to retail.

Of course they will deny this passive-aggressively but I don't see why else they would trawl through the classic section so negatively.

If you think that Classic has taken enough players from Modern for it to be an issue, you're absolutely out of your mind. I'm on two roleplay servers and the major cities are still bustling at all hours of the day. Classic hasn't taken "millions of players". You're delusional if you really think that.

[Garymorilix]

Sooo, what is there to see in this video? They did a 40man w-pvp raid? So what?
Daily thing in Nazjatar/Mechagon/any on-going assault.

I don't see why this is Classic exclusive. You wouldn't know it isn't if you played the fckin game you're bashing.

[arkanon]

Haha retail, good one.

Yeah, we don't have accurate numbers because Blizzard isn't releasing them. But there is no doubt Classic was a huge success, both moneywise and publicity.

Keep living in denial, but it won't magically make Classic dissapear for you.

There is a huge amount of doubt that Classic has been a "huge success" financially. There seems to be a huge disconnect here - you keep saying there is no doubt, but provide absolutely no logic or data to back up such a claim. There are people in this very forum talking about how "retail players are angry because classic stole all its players". Well, if that was the case, Classic would have barely moved the needle for Blizzards earning - as apparently, many of the players were already subbed.

Publicity isnt free - Blizzard have invested quite substantially in marketing for classic, although maybe not to the extent of a new IP or expansion. One thing you keep ignoring is that the interest level on some of the units of measure used by the classic community have plummeted - more than halved, in less than 8 weeks. No one is surprised there was a large burst of activity with a "new" blizzard product launch, but the dropoff in that activity has been phenomenal as well, and has surprised even me.

You also massively underplay the lack of data by saying "we dont have ACCURATE numbers" - we dont have ANY numbers at all, so any talk of profit or financial success is just silly fanboi conjecture.

[Noxina]

There is a huge amount of doubt that Classic has been a "huge success" financially. There seems to be a huge disconnect here - you keep saying there is no doubt, but provide absolutely no logic or data to back up such a claim. There are people in this very forum talking about how "retail players are angry because classic stole all its players". Well, if that was the case, Classic would have barely moved the needle for Blizzards earning - as apparently, many of the players were already subbed.

Publicity isnt free - Blizzard have invested quite substantially in marketing for classic, although maybe not to the extent of a new IP or expansion. One thing you keep ignoring is that the interest level on some of the units of measure used by the classic community have plummeted - more than halved, in less than 8 weeks. No one is surprised there was a large burst of activity with a "new" blizzard product launch, but the dropoff in that activity has been phenomenal as well, and has surprised even me.

You also massively underplay the lack of data by saying "we dont have ACCURATE numbers" - we dont have ANY numbers at all, so any talk of profit or financial success is just silly fanboi conjecture.

Well, we do know they had an 223% increase in subs in August compared to July. (https://www.wowhead.com/news=295273/...enue-in-august)

WoW Classic drives a huge jump in subscribers. World of Warcraft subscription revenue grew an estimated 223% in August compared to July. Despite this, total revenue was still lower than the Battle for Azeroth expansion last August.

So that's saying something.

And by using your logic, you have no proof it wasn't a huge success. For all we know they are swimming in Classic cash right now, laughing at people like you. Or they are sitting under a bridge somewhere, trying to beg enough for their next score.

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If you think that Classic has taken enough players from Modern for it to be an issue, you're absolutely out of your mind. I'm on two roleplay servers and the major cities are still bustling at all hours of the day. Classic hasn't taken "millions of players". You're delusional if you really think that.

Killed my retail guild for sure, and I know about more guilds on my server that took a severe hit because people stuck around on Classic after the hype.

[TheRevenantHero]

Well, we do know they had an 223% increase in subs in August compared to July. (https://www.wowhead.com/news=295273/...enue-in-august)

So that's saying something.

And by using your logic, you have no proof it wasn't a huge success. For all we know they are swimming in Classic cash right now, laughing at people like you. Or they are sitting under a bridge somewhere, trying to beg enough for their next score.

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Killed my retail guild for sure, and I know about more guilds on my server that took a severe hit because people stuck around on Classic after the hype.

I've not seen a single guild killed by Classic. Every guild I've seen has had people still log on for raid and such while maybe playing Classic in their downtime. If Classic killed your guild then the guild was on the verge of disbanding in general and Classic was a convenient excuse.

[Noxina]

I've not seen a single guild killed by Classic. Every guild I've seen has had people still log on for raid and such while maybe playing Classic in their downtime. If Classic killed your guild then the guild was on the verge of disbanding in general and Classic was a convenient excuse.

Well, different strokes for different blokes I guess. My guild died because people want to focus on Classic, and it wasn't close to dying before Classic released. Half the rooster just decided Classic was more fun to play than BfA.
And there are more guilds on Kazzak EU with the same issue.

*edit*
well, most likely due to Classic and the fact a lot of people just seem to find BfA boring, though to me it is pretty much Legion v2.

[TheRevenantHero]

Well, different strokes for different blokes I guess. My guild died because people want to focus on Classic, and it wasn't close to dying before Classic released. Half the rooster just decided Classic was more fun to play than BfA.
And there are more guilds on Kazzak EU with the same issue.

*edit*
well, most likely due to Classic and the fact a lot of people just seem to find BfA boring, though to me it is pretty much Legion v2.

The only guilds I've seen fall apart with Classic were guilds that were already on the verge and they used it as an excuse. If they left to focus on Classic then they weren't very dedicated members, imo.

[arkanon]

Well, we do know they had an 223% increase in subs in August compared to July. (https://www.wowhead.com/news=295273/...enue-in-august)

So that's saying something.

And by using your logic, you have no proof it wasn't a huge success. For all we know they are swimming in Classic cash right now, laughing at people like you. Or they are sitting under a bridge somewhere, trying to beg enough for their next score.

Oh buddy......you were doing ok, not great, but holding your own - right until you went and said "prove it wasnt a huge success". Forgetting the fact you are using a youtuber as your source of wow subs, you really just need to admit that you have ZERO proof that blizzard made a single cent with WoW classic. Seriously, you were doing fine, why did you have to go and say something so silly?

That is NOT my logic at all - you have made a claim - the claim being that WoW classic has been a financial success for Blizzard. As is to be expected with a baseless claim like this, someone asked for proof of the profit - and your response is "Prove it DIDNT make money!!!"

Let me throw this at you then, since you seem unable to prove it made any profit at all.....I put it to you that Blizzard is yet to make back even 40% of the money they have invested into the development and launch of WoW classic, and, although i have zero proof of this, you cannot deny its true, unless you PROVE that i am wrong.

[Florena]

People are much more socially apathetic in current retail. Of course it's technically possible to organize coordinated battles, etc but you will have much easier time finding like minded people in Classic than in BFA, without a doubt. The last time I experienced something similar to what's shown here was back in Wrath on Emerald Dream (RPPVP). The player base has changed quite a bit since.

Ah, I remember those days on Emerald Dream. I kind of got burned out on large scale WPVP but it was fun for a while.

[Eapoe]

Well, we do know they had an 223% increase in subs in August compared to July. (https://www.wowhead.com/news=295273/...enue-in-august)

So that's saying something.

And by using your logic, you have no proof it wasn't a huge success. For all we know they are swimming in Classic cash right now, laughing at people like you. Or they are sitting under a bridge somewhere, trying to beg enough for their next score.

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Killed my retail guild for sure, and I know about more guilds on my server that took a severe hit because people stuck around on Classic after the hype.

I’ve read the beginning of that link 3 times now and I just now saw the caveat that SuperData got their information from Bellular, not Blizzard. They seriously put information of WoW sub numbers and revenue increase from a YouTube personality and not the company itself.
I’ve also pointed out numerous times that Blizzard does not publish sub numbers anymore and only provide profits/losses and MAUs. Now, someone with access to Blizzard’s revenue could potentially see how much of an increase there has been, but that wouldn’t show Classic vs Retail. There’s also the fact that some, albeit not all or even most, that some of the subs are from people resubscribing for the .5 patch, the end of the war campaign content, and the new RAF.