Non Forsaken Who Still Side With Sylvanas: Why?

[Arrashi]

Tyrande and Jaina aren't edgy...aren't "cool"

I dunno, tyrande with that "shitty 2015 creepypasta thumbnail" look she rocks is pretty up there.

[Dagoth Ur]

leave toxic masculinity to the feminist debates. they have their own forum for that. this is world of warcraft. get that sort of lingo out of here.

That lingo's been brought up by the writers themselves when describing certain characters. I'd usually agree with you but cat's already out of the bag.

[Kithelle]

I find the appearance argument to be pretty bunk. If that was all people were interested in you’d see a character like Tyrande also have a massive fanbase like Sylvanas or Jaina. But she doesn’t because just looking good isn’t enough.

Also people don't make excuses very often for Jaina or Tyrande...they're often both called bitches and are hated for their actions. While Sylvanas has done many worse things and barely gets a fraction of the hate...that kind of devotion stems from more than "Oh Sylvanas is kinda cool"

Attraction makes people say and do very foolish things, do I need to remind you of all the girls pining over the Boston Marathon Bomber saying he was to cute to be guilty? Sounds familiar huh? Just like the people claiming that Sylvanas is a decent person...saying she did things for the greater good when they were just evil. Saying that she did things for her people when they were all for herself, even after she murdered her own people because she was afraid it would affect her power base.

Infracted.

[Arrashi]

Also people don't make excuses very often for Jaina or Tyrande...they're often both called bitches and are hated for their actions. While Sylvanas has done many worse things and barely gets a fraction of the hate...that kind of devotion stems from more than "Oh Sylvanas is kinda cool"

Yes, this definately doesn't apply to sylvanas. Never saw even single instance of that.

[naeblis495]

Basically, I want to hear your reasons. Its one thing to be loyal to Sylvanas when she was the Warchief, we can't afford divisions in the Horde. Its another to continue following her even when she plainly said "I don't care about any of you".

my characther hate the alliance and will side with anyone that want to kill them all . As long as sylvanas have the will and power to act on that goal , he will follow her .

[Wylyth1992]

Even forsaken, ESPECIALLY forsaken.

"I don't care about the living, but I pitied the forsaken."

PITIED. What a hag. Even my forsaken frost DK with <the gullible> as a title, reading that. Ugh. I hope we don't get the option to continue siding with her anymore because I just cannot justify it at this stage.

She is an enemy of the Horde, self-admitted, and an enemy of the forsaken, more than anyone.

Yeah, but in game there are forsaken who still support her, for whatever reason.

And yeah, the people of Lordaeron have been betrayed by their royalty twice, by a prince, and now by a queen.

[Seradi]

Also people don't make excuses very often for Jaina or Tyrande...they're often both called bitches and are hated for their actions. While Sylvanas has done many worse things and barely gets a fraction of the hate...that kind of devotion stems from more than "Oh Sylvanas is kinda cool"

Attraction makes people say and do very foolish things, do I need to remind you of all the girls pining over the Boston Marathon Bomber saying he was to cute to be guilty? Sounds familiar huh? Just like the people claiming that Sylvanas is a decent person...saying she did things for the greater good when they were just evil. Saying that she did things for her people when they were all for herself, even after she murdered her own people because she was afraid it would affect her power base.

Sylvanas is hated just as much as she is loved. I don’t think there’s a more polarizing character in the franchise.

[Dudenoso]

I agree.
As someone else already mentioned it: if it wasn't a character with boobs, lipstick and long hair, the acceptance would be zero.

I would accept it rather well even if she were an eldritch tentacley abomination.

There is far too little representations in videogames on being able to side with the twirly mustache villain.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Also people don't make excuses very often for Jaina or Tyrande...they're often both called bitches and are hated for their actions. While Sylvanas has done many worse things and barely gets a fraction of the hate...that kind of devotion stems from more than "Oh Sylvanas is kinda cool"

Attraction makes people say and do very foolish things, do I need to remind you of all the girls pining over the Boston Marathon Bomber saying he was to cute to be guilty? Sounds familiar huh? Just like the people claiming that Sylvanas is a decent person...saying she did things for the greater good when they were just evil. Saying that she did things for her people when they were all for herself, even after she murdered her own people because she was afraid it would affect her power base.

The fact that you so desperatly cling to this hysterical argument while at the same time pretending as if this doesn't happen to Jaina and Tyrande is pure forum comedy.

What's better? The fact that you constantly try to drag real life into this, or the fact that you must truly think people are dense to take your deliberately misleading argument as anything close to an informed answer?

You don't have to like Sylvanas, but the fact that this is the hill you die on constantly shows you simply cannot handle others not liking Sylvanas either, you feel a desperate need to "Strengthen" your opinion, no matter how jumbled your reasoning becomes.

[Jastall]

I would accept it rather well even if she were an eldritch tentacley abomination.

There is far too little representations in videogames on being able to side with the twirly mustache villain.

The issue is more that WoW has only two "sides" to choose from, Alliance and Horde. If there were 3 or 4 factions, I doubt one of them being lolevil would cause much grief. But people that signed up with the modern Horde to not be bad guys despite its races being traditional fantasy bad guys just feel shafted when they're later on forced to serve a bad guy/girl. Sylvanas wouldn't be half as controversial as she is if the Forsaken were a separate faction. Few people playing as the Empire in SWTOR lamented that they were the bad guys, because you are very clearly both told and shown that the Empire are worse than the Republic. And even then, that game gave you far more moral agency than WoW does as well.

Same reason why I have no issue playing as Malekith or Mannfred in Total War Warhammer despite both these people being absolute fucking douchebags that make Sylvanas look like an angel. You know what you get into from the onset when you choose to play as the Dark Elves or the Vampire Counts in that game, they're Evil with a big E and that's the end of that. The Horde, however, is a giant mish-mash of races, moralities, priorities and creeds that really have no business being with each other, so anytime you impose a mindset on its entire playerbase there's bound to be a segment that is annoyed. Sylvanas is but a symptom of this, I think.

[Thetruth1400]

Everything is better than generic light novel protagonist (Western version)

Yeah, mustache twirling cartoon villain is so much better.

[Arrashi]

Yeah, mustache twirling cartoon villain is so much better.

Honestly yes they are. If i want a dose of boy next door im gonna watch some gachi.

[acinos]

Why am I siding with Sylvanas? easy. I'm a death knight.

[Kithelle]

Sylvanas is hated just as much as she is loved. I don’t think there’s a more polarizing character in the franchise.

Just because people hate her doesn't mean there aren't people who really love her. I don't think I've seen the kind of fanaticism for any other character like I've seen for her. I've seen people who like or love Garrosh, but they typically don't make excuses for him...they like him for what her did, they don't try and make excuses generally to excuse what he did or try to flip it and make it seem like what he did was for the greater good.

He just wanted to see Orcs dominate, and he was accepted for that. She just wants to see herself dominate and have true immortality...they try and twist it to make it seem like she is some kind of sweet and kind guardian that only wants the immortality to protect everyone.

[Irian]

When it comes to b...people were fooling themslves if they thought she was going to be some kind of anti-hero. The writing was on the wall from the start, she is and was evil...she has done nothing but evil since Gilneas.

In part, it's Blizzard's own fault. They hinted heavily that Sylvanas would be a deeper character in this expansion than we thought, there were so many hints that Sylvanas was a mastermind or had some grand scheme (hence the 34D chess jokes) and people were theorizing for ages what her true intention could be, good or bad.

We still don't really know, but I think a lot of people thought she was going down a much different route. The Vol'jin death cinematic and several quotes from her early on made many think, rightfully so, that there was going to be a bait-and-switch and she was going to be seen as a hero by the end of the expansion. I can't blame anyone for thinking that because a halfway decent story probably would've done that.

[Yuugumo]

Everything is better than generic light novel protagonist (Western version)

Edgy dark novel anti-hero?

[Boricha]

Just for fun. They can't actually punish the player character, so why not.

[Jshadowhunter]

Why do you assume they are better?

I don't, that's why I thought it weird that a light novel protagonist of any kind would be good.

[Mehrunes]

What's better? The fact that you constantly try to drag real life into this, or the fact that you must truly think people are dense to take your deliberately misleading argument as anything close to an informed answer?

You forgot the third contender: the conflation of correcting wrong arguments about her (like the idea about Sylvanas failing to inform the Alliance about retreat at Broken Shore as if her horn was silent) with claiming Sylvanas is a paragon of justice.

The issue is more that WoW has only two "sides" to choose from, Alliance and Horde. If there were 3 or 4 factions, I doubt one of them being lolevil would cause much grief. But people that signed up with the modern Horde to not be bad guys despite its races being traditional fantasy bad guys just feel shafted when they're later on forced to serve a bad guy/girl. Sylvanas wouldn't be half as controversial as she is if the Forsaken were a separate faction. Few people playing as the Empire in SWTOR lamented that they were the bad guys, because you are very clearly both told and shown that the Empire are worse than the Republic. And even then, that game gave you far more moral agency than WoW does as well.

Same reason why I have no issue playing as Malekith or Mannfred in Total War Warhammer despite both these people being absolute fucking douchebags that make Sylvanas look like an angel. You know what you get into from the onset when you choose to play as the Dark Elves or the Vampire Counts in that game, they're Evil with a big E and that's the end of that. The Horde, however, is a giant mish-mash of races, moralities, priorities and creeds that really have no business being with each other, so anytime you impose a mindset on its entire playerbase there's bound to be a segment that is annoyed. Sylvanas is but a symptom of this, I think.

But the ones that have been annoyed the most and the longest about Sylvanas are Alliance players. And nothing is imposed on them when Sylvanas takes the Horde in a darker direction.

[FlubberPuddy]

He just wanted to see Orcs dominate, and he was accepted for that. She just wants to see herself dominate and have true immortality...they try and twist it to make it seem like she is some kind of sweet and kind guardian that only wants the immortality to protect everyone.

Probably because in the former, at least there was a group he was trying to help. In the latter, it's all for her own self.

Like I bet it ~hurt~ some of those individuals when Sylvanas went, "YOU ARE ALL NOTHING". All one had to do was check the threads about it on that day.

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Edgy dark novel anti-hero?

Some players sound like they'd rather play the "villain" and no hero type at all.