Blizzards loot system in WoW is no different from the unethical RNG lootboxes.

[Lazuli]

The loot system in retail is now no different than predatory loot box gambling.

Want to aim for a piece of gear?
Okay, let's say I want a weapon with crit/haste and let's say I want a socket on that as well.

First, I find boss that drops that weapon. Then I kill said boss, let's say it drops. Its a normal version with mast/vers and no socket. K? How many times would I have to kill this boss in order to get my desired weapon? Let's even take the socket out of the equation, how many random rolls on avg would it take to get desired stats? No one really fucking knows because this shit is lootbox cancer.

DON'T FORGET, THIS WEAPON WOULD HAVE TO DROP IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Even accepting the lootbox aids design, ever wondered why Bli$$ard won't add reforging back so we can control bad stat rolls? Because they want to remain predatory towards weak minded gambler personalities and hope they remain subbed chasing that impossible perfect rolled item.

[Kyanion]

Don't like it? Don't play it.

[kokuten]

do you need an adult? is everything ok?

[Lazuli]

^Just pointing out facts, everything is ok.

[Bladesyphon]

I guess that must mean games like Diablo 2 and 3 are truly the Devil's game, what with all the RNG factors that go into a single piece of loot that drops.

[Justpassing]

You totally should sue them.

[Phookah]

Wrong, but you do you boo.

[Sevarin]

its a good thing im not buying loot in wow and would remain subbed regardless.

[Khaza-R]

And this is different from having BiS item with a extremely low drop rate how?

[araine]

The loot system in retail is now no different than predatory loot box gambling.

Want to aim for a piece of gear?
Okay, let's say I want a weapon with crit/haste and let's say I want a socket on that as well.

First, I find boss that drops that weapon. Then I kill said boss, let's say it drops. Its a normal version with mast/vers and no socket. K? How many times would I have to kill this boss in order to get my desired weapon? Let's even take the socket out of the equation, how many random rolls on avg would it take to get desired stats? No one really fucking knows because this shit is lootbox cancer.

DON'T FORGET, THIS WEAPON WOULD HAVE TO DROP IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Even accepting the lootbox aids design, ever wondered why Bli$$ard won't add reforging back so we can control bad stat rolls? Because they want to remain predatory towards weak minded gambler personalities and hope they remain subbed chasing that impossible perfect rolled item.

secondary stats are predetermined on the item unless you go back to all kara bosses in the basement that dropped gear of the eagle and of the owl shit meaning they hwere just trash and useless since that agi // spirit cloth was so great you know

[Irian]

It's an attempt to replicate that kind of design, yeah. It's simply true that this whole "anything can happen, tiny odds to strike it rich" gambling scheme is attempting to replicate gambling addiction.

That's why I think Blizzard missed the mark bad with the system. People don't play MMOs to roll the dice and strike it big, if we aren't meaningfully growing more powerful by our own actions then it feels like we've wasted our time. And frankly, it just doesn't feel the same to roll a 430 item out of nowhere off a WQ as it would if I farmed points for weeks for it.

[Lazuli]

secondary stats are predetermined on the item unless you go back to all kara bosses in the basement that dropped gear of the eagle and of the owl shit meaning they hwere just trash and useless since that agi // spirit cloth was so great you know

lol u wat m9 that is not true at all

It's an attempt to replicate that kind of design, yeah. It's simply true that this whole "anything can happen, tiny odds to strike it rich" gambling scheme is attempting to replicate gambling.

That's why I think Blizzard missed the mark bad with the system. People don't play MMOs to roll the dice and strike it big, if we aren't meaningfully growing more powerful by our own actions then it feels like we've wasted our time. And frankly, it just doesn't feel the same to roll a 430 item out of nowhere off a WQ as it would if I farmed points for weeks for it.

Yeah I preferred the currency method, with the chance of getting an item without currency, but currency ENSURING that eventually you get that item regardless of bad RNG. And there was no added RNG to worry about. It felt good, balanced.

[Talon8669]

The loot system in retail is now no different than predatory loot box gambling.

Want to aim for a piece of gear?
Okay, let's say I want a weapon with crit/haste and let's say I want a socket on that as well.

First, I find boss that drops that weapon. Then I kill said boss, let's say it drops. Its a normal version with mast/vers and no socket. K? How many times would I have to kill this boss in order to get my desired weapon? Let's even take the socket out of the equation, how many random rolls on avg would it take to get desired stats? No one really fucking knows because this shit is lootbox cancer.

DON'T FORGET, THIS WEAPON WOULD HAVE TO DROP IN THE FIRST PLACE!

Even accepting the lootbox aids design, ever wondered why Bli$$ard won't add reforging back so we can control bad stat rolls? Because they want to remain predatory towards weak minded gambler personalities and hope they remain subbed chasing that impossible perfect rolled item.

RGN creates replayable content....it's the perfect design when you're not focused on creating new content to keep people playing.

[Justpassing]

lol u wat m9 that is not true at all

Put your feet up guys, it's getting pretty deep in here.

[Lazuli]

RGN creates replayable content....it's the perfect design when you're not focused on creating new content to keep people playing.

Yeah but how long will the shills eat this type of content up before 9000 iq players like myself point out how predatory and obvious the gambling system is? There's a reason Bli$$ard won't add reforging secondary stats back. Despite their obvious lies, everyone still sims and min/maxes.

[RaoBurning]

You don't have to pay for the drops, so it's not really a good parallel. A monthly sub just gets you server access, so that's also not quite the same. I get what you're going for, and if I squint really hard through a dark cloth I can see your point, but the lines just don't quite intersect.

[Irian]

Yeah I preferred the currency method, with the chance of getting an item without currency, but currency ENSURING that eventually you get that item regardless of bad RNG. And there was no added RNG to worry about. It felt good, balanced.

I've heard a ton of stories along the lines of people being pissed that they worked their ass off to upgrade a benthic piece as much as they could only to randomly obtain an item that was better from a WQ.

What Blizzard thinks is fun and rewarding just turns out to be frustrating and tiring because we don't want to see work we put into something invalidated by the roll of a dice. This isn't Diablo where the endgame is all about gear and RNG hunts for said gear, MMORPGs like WoW revolved around that purposeful grind to actually achieve something by putting in effort.

I agree that things should be available from both, or at least options, though. Boss drops are cool but in a weird sort of irony, the amount of possible loot they put on boss drops pretty much ensures that Titanforging doesn't even serve much of a purpose. You're very likely not going to see an excess of some super desired item because there are so many drops per boss. I don't think this is beyond them, the only other reason I can imagine that they stubbornly cling to this system is the hope that it gives players some gambling-based addiction itch.

[dcc626]

This was one of the reasons that I loved Legion so much. I got this very cool magical weapon and I could forge this weapon into something that could help kill a titan or god. The upgrades were a bit RNG but a little bit of RNG to upgrade something I have, I'm OK with that. It means there's continued reason to re-run content.

As a duel wielding DK and DH and warrior, the RNG aspect of trying to get weapon upgrades or a good weapon in the first place makes me want to not play.

but its been this way for the entirety of the game EXCEPT legion. and the rng relics were pretty much the same as what we have now with other gear.

adding things to ghe game apparently can only happen if they plan to never take it away. even if we knew from day 1 that they would.

[Santti]

Not at all.

[Mad_Murdock]

You don't have to pay for the drops, so it's not really a good parallel. A monthly sub just gets you server access, so that's also not quite the same. I get what you're going for, and if I squint really hard through a dark cloth I can see your point, but the lines just don't quite intersect.

You need to turn your head sideways to properly see the alignment. Might have to hum or play Britney Spears in the background. Also a high thread count on the cloth, ideally egyptian cotton or anything produce by Martha Stewart