1. #2701
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    I recommend The Alienist on Netflix. Not as good as the book by Caleb Carr, but a pretty decent adaptation--even if it did have some unnecessary filler for the sake of fleshing out a few other characters.

    On topic, I find it pretty amazing that several GOP congressmen are starting to waver in their loyalty to Trump. Few if any are coming forward to support the investigation, but several are remaining pretty silent about it. I think this is the first time I've seen some wavering and uncertainty in the ranks in a while, which speaks to the severity of the situation.

    I'm going to need more popcorn.
    I honestly think it's Trump's willingness to throw everyone under the bus, in spite of how lock-step the party has been up until this point. Republicans like appearing unified, and we've seen them bend themselves into pretzels to defend the inexcusable in order to keep it that way, but Trump's recent behavior might've finally gotten it through their skulls that the same treatment doesn't extend their way.

  2. #2702
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    I honestly think it's Trump's willingness to throw everyone under the bus, in spite of how lock-step the party has been up until this point. Republicans like appearing unified, and we've seen them bend themselves into pretzels to defend the inexcusable in order to keep it that way, but Trump's recent behavior might've finally gotten it through their skulls that the same treatment doesn't extend their way.
    To follow up on that:

    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog...he-white-house

    The Rush to Testify is Bad News for the White House

    "The White House is putting up a strong bluff. They say they won’t comply with subpoenas. They are even hinting at a challenge to the House’s internal governance, arguing that there actually is no impeachment inquiry because Speaker Pelosi has not held a vote of the whole House to authorize it. It’s the same brash, aggressive and total defiance that has served them so well for the last nine months. The President says he has every right to do what he’s done and his top lieutenants are lining up to agree.

    But the people closest to the action, the ones with the most at stake are belying that confidence not with their words but their actions. Secretary Pompeo threatened a dogged fight against any attempt to depose State Department officials or get documents for the House inquiry. Volker, Yovanovitch, Sondland and others could have used that shield Pompeo threw up around them to refuse or at least delay or negotiate over testifying. That was clearly the intention. But they haven’t.

    ...

    One of the things we learned over the last nine months is that a posture of total defiance can be quite effective. If no one talks or produces any records it’s almost impossible for an investigation to get traction or build momentum. By cooperating they are significantly undermining the administration’s strategy and creating incentives and pressures for others to come forward as well. For a White House where law means little and loyalty means everything that is total betrayal. But that does not appear to be stopping them."

  3. #2703
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post


    And that's not the opinion of random internet nobodies. That's not the opinion of Fox talking heads. That's not the opinion of a lawyer like Guiliani who's in it to save his own skin. It's the opinion of an actual, practicing Lawyer versed in Law School who has no skin in the game.
    Got to note that he contradicts many things people are saying here though.

    Like, at 30:14, saying "There may not be explicit quid-pro-quo" when discussing transcripts.

  4. #2704
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Got to note that he contradicts many things people are saying here though.

    Like, at 30:14, saying "There may not be explicit quid-pro-quo" when discussing transcripts.
    Even asking for a favor is illegal. So, just because he doesn't ask for the quid-pro-quo, doesn't make it not illegal.

  5. #2705
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    It’s very simple... Get Russia, Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, China and North Korea on the phone!!! Trump needs help! Americans are attacking Trump!!! Please foreign leaders, save the most patriotic president ever, from being attacked by America.
    That's a wrap folks, it doesn't get better than this.

  6. #2706
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    And then claim proof cannot be obtained because enemies of Trump are preventing it from being released (regardless of wherever proof existed in the first place).
    Did you just say that proof isn't being released, but that there might also not be proof? You gotta work on your comedy routine.

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  7. #2707
    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    Even asking for a favor is illegal. So, just because he doesn't ask for the quid-pro-quo, doesn't make it not illegal.
    There's plenty of evidence of the quid-pro-quo between the fact we know the aid was withheld without an official reason, the whistleblower report, Volker's texts, and Sen. Johnson saying he knew of it.

    It'd be foolish to assume Trump would release the quid-pro-quo part of the phone call anyway.

  8. #2708
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Got to note that he contradicts many things people are saying here though.

    Like, at 30:14, saying "There may not be explicit quid-pro-quo" when discussing transcripts.
    The "explicit" part of it means that Trump doesn't directly say it as "I'll do this if you do this" or "do this and I'll do this", but when he held back funding and then describes what he wanted them to do he was definitely going for quid-pro-quo.

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  9. #2709
    Quote Originally Posted by Nelinrah View Post
    There's plenty of evidence of the quid-pro-quo between the fact we know the aid was withheld without an official reason, the whistleblower report, Volker's texts, and Sen. Johnson saying he knew of it.

    It'd be foolish to assume Trump would release the quid-pro-quo part of the phone call anyway.
    Yep, others have said that the aid wasn't being released until the investigation took place or at least started. But don't worry, Shalcker will still ignore it.

  10. #2710
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    Did you just say that proof isn't being released, but that there might also not be proof? You gotta work on your comedy routine.
    I said from the very start that wherever Biden will be persecuted for that particular angle is questionable. And wherever Ukrainians can be trusted in general.

    All i said is essentially "Some Ukrainians (including those who potentially could be credible about it) are accused of claiming to Giuliani that proof exists but isn't being released because of Trump's enemies; and Trump/Giuliani believing them explains everything." (as they do seem to love jumping to conclusions when it feeds their own paranoia)

    The fact that anyone not blind can see that Hunter Biden (and probably Kerry's son) involvement is in part abuse of their's father's influence doesn't mean that they'll necessarily be persecuted for it.

    But, like in case of Manafort, additional scrutiny might uncover something else.
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2019-10-06 at 09:20 AM.

  11. #2711
    Elemental Lord Templar 331's Avatar
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    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...s68?li=BBnb7Kz

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell vows to stop any Democratic push for impeachment in a social media campaign ad that he's using as a platform to raise campaign funds off the inquiry of President Donald Trump.
    So Moscow Mitch is openly saying how he'll sabotage his Constitutional duties and trying to get political points at the same time.

    The party of law indeed...

  12. #2712
    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...s68?li=BBnb7Kz
    So Moscow Mitch is openly saying how he'll sabotage his Constitutional duties and trying to get political points at the same time.

    The party of law indeed...
    It was as predictable as sun rising in the morning.

  13. #2713
    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...s68?li=BBnb7Kz



    So Moscow Mitch is openly saying how he'll sabotage his Constitutional duties and trying to get political points at the same time.

    The party of law indeed...
    Not surprising, that decrepit turtle will hold on until the end. He knows Trump is still useful, but only if he's still President.

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  14. #2714
    BREAKING: Attorney representing whistleblower who sounded the alarm on Pres. Trump’s dealings with Ukraine tells @ABC News he is now representing a second whistleblower who has first-hand knowledge of events. https://t.co/9FE7oei7pJ
    https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1180821170024792065?s=19

    Second whistleblower has first-hand knowledge of some of the allegations.

    The whistleblower says more than half dozen have information on the allegations.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  15. #2715
    Quote Originally Posted by Shon237 View Post
    https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1180821170024792065?s=19

    Second whistleblower has first-hand knowledge of some of the allegations.

    The whistleblower says more than half dozen have information on the allegations.
    3rd whistleblower will have a birds eye view of the information.

    Joking aside I can't wait for Trump's next meltdown about this new person.

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  16. #2716
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    I said from the very start that wherever Biden will be persecuted for that particular angle is questionable. And wherever Ukrainians can be trusted in general.
    Excuse me? A Russian is telling people Ukrainians can’t be trusted in general, to defend Trump? /insert-infraction-worthy-insult

    No buddy, you cannot be trusted...

    Edit: update from 6 hours ago... I fell asleep! lol
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  17. #2717
    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    Even asking for a favor is illegal. So, just because he doesn't ask for the quid-pro-quo, doesn't make it not illegal.
    His reply here just shows Trump supporters heart a line or word and ignore everything else.

  18. #2718
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    Even asking for a favor is illegal. So, just because he doesn't ask for the quid-pro-quo, doesn't make it not illegal.
    Realistically, this is closer to blackmail than quid quo pro:

    "Do X or you won't get Y" really only benefits the side making demands.

  19. #2719
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Got to note that he contradicts many things people are saying here though.

    Like, at 30:14, saying "There may not be explicit quid-pro-quo" when discussing transcripts.
    Too bad later texts that come out are clearly defined as quid-pro-quos

    https://twitter.com/LegalEagleDJ/sta...60795440005120

  20. #2720
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Too bad later texts that come out are clearly defined as quid-pro-quos
    You don’t seem to understand... You cannot trust anyone, but Trump. Everyone is a liar, excluding the angel brought to us directly from heaven... Donald Trump... many people don’t know, but this song is about the origin of Trump:

    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

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