has there ever been a more unconvincing moment to end the faction war

[mickybrighteyes]

Except we haven't gotten the ending of the faction war, Sylvanas is out but we still don't know how certain aspects of the war come to an end.

Thrall saying something in Orgrimmar is not closure, cuz Thrall had jack shit to do with anything.

There can be a war aftermath subplot in 8.3 that closes things. Or maybe there isn't. But judging it right now means as much as describing colors to a blind man.

yes, those minor plotholes are rather annoying aren't they... but doesn't matter cause the end of teh faction war wasSaurfang running face first into a death blast screaming for Azeroth while Sylvanas, who now openly states she wants mass death and casualties simply buggers off rather than invoke pointless fighting for mass death and casualities as her plan requires cause... well reasons!

So welcome in the knew High Over King Anduin Wrynn as he takes charge of the horde for their own good!

[Garymorilix]

yes, those minor plotholes are rather annoying aren't they... but doesn't matter cause the end of teh faction war wasSaurfang running face first into a death blast screaming for Azeroth while Sylvanas, who now openly states she wants mass death and casualties simply buggers off rather than invoke pointless fighting for mass death and casualities as her plan requires cause... well reasons!

So welcome in the knew High Over King Anduin Wrynn as he takes charge of the horde for their own good!

Those are not plot holes. "Plot hole" has an actual definition, and this ain't it chief.

And no, it is the end of the war, but NOT the end of story!

Can you people read? Obviously the whole story of BfA is not the faction war.

[Mehrunes]

Oh yea?
What's with Tyrande?
What's with Talanji?
What's with Arathi and Darkshore?
What's with Gallywix?
Who leads the Horde? What even is the Horde now?
Who leads the Forsaken and Orcs?
What does "peace" even mean now between the factions?

And I guess I could think of many more regarding other characters or mission tables, but still, at least half of this needs to be addressed in 8.3 to get closure.
And even if it doesn't, complaining about it is only fair AFTER it all ended.

But I'm just repeating myself now, I can see you don't get it. But discussing the ending of a movie after only watching 80% of it is just nonsense to me.

Not all faction leaders were present for the ending of the previous faction war either. Does it mean it hasn't ended? Not all zones affected by war have been explicitly explained (in fact, majority of them were brushed under the carpet). Does that mean that war hasn't ended? After SoO Orcs haven't had a racial leader until Legion (and even then it was mentioned via Twitter). Does that mean the previous faction war hasn't ended? The answer to all those questions is "no". What you brought up is utterly irrelevant. Also, Gallywix ran the hell away after burning incriminating documents and Horde is Alliance's subject as all of its remaining leaders are people who betrayed the faction prior to 8.2.5 and crawled over to the Alliance. So those two are already there.

[Whitedragon]

I mean, he's the king. His is the last word, and if he let himself be convinced by others crying for war, it's his responsibility. It wasn't like Genn went off and just started attacking the Horde or anything - they all waited for Anduin's okay.

The Horde didn't attack anyone. They harvested azerite, and the Alliance decided that it was time for a preemptive strike. THEY started the war.

Alliance spies weren't sent to kill anyone, Horde did start killing spies though.

[Mehrunes]

Alliance spies weren't sent to kill anyone, Horde did start killing spies though.

Right. The Azerite samples they gather are available only from dead Goblins but I'm sure those were work place accidents.

[Whitedragon]

As usual in reply to this fascinating story of yours:
1. provide source for Azsuna happening before Stormheim.

Provide a source that it doesn't. By the fact that it is an available rout, the quest dose exist, and the item itself dose seem to indicate that the events of stormheim have not completely played out yet we can assume that that would be the intended progression of events, because it would make zero seance for it to be treated the way it was in a post SH scenario where we would expect something more along the lines of "Oh, if only we had gotten this info before going.".

2. provide source for the Alliance version of that Azsuna questline being canon, because it's mutually exclusive with the Horde version.

Being in game, and a possible rout that dose help explain the events leading into SH not good enough for you?

3. try to explain why Genn says multiple times after the attack that he has no idea what Sylvanas is up to.

Even the info the Alliance got wasn't complete? the same can be said of the Horde going in. Sylvanas manged to keep some/most of her plan a secret at least.
At that point you can indeed say it was still a rash spurt of the moment decision, but considering what we know now we can also say he made the right call, even if it was made with shaky info and rash judgment.

- - - Updated - - -

Right. The Azerite samples they gather are available only from dead Goblins but I'm sure those were work place accidents.

The heroes arrived after the the initial events and by that point Alliance spies had died, try again.

[mickybrighteyes]

Those are not plot holes. "Plot hole" has an actual definition, and this ain't it chief.

And no, it is the end of the war, but NOT the end of story!

Can you people read? Obviously the whole story of BfA is not the faction war.

oh it really depends on how the story carries on. Like remember the elves getting stuck in the violet hold and the story just plain forgot anything about that?

[Dorp]

the horde is more divided than it has ever been in history. even if you take just what you're shown in-game, sylvanas's supporters are still hiding out in the horde and communicating in secret, so the horde divide between honor and genocide has not been addressed at all and just driven underground again.

the alliance is more divided than ever between anduin "peace at any price" wrynn and the night elves who justifiably don't believe that repeating the end of mop except with less done to sanction the horde is going to end any differently than the last time.

both sides still have big armies that were seconds ago ready to fight to the death so instead of any catharsis everyone was just suddenly informed they're at peace now leading to the ultimate case of war blue balls on both factions.

the night elves, worgen, zandalari and forsaken all have grudges that are completely unresolved by "well we all saw saurfang say for azeroth and sylvanas say she didnt like the horde"

there have been no peace talks or formal efforts to make lasting peace. anduin attended saurfang's funeral then immediately went home afterwards. even varian said "dont do it again btw" before going home and the leaders talked about territory exchanges in an attempt to make peace. anduin who we're told is the world's greatest peacemaking visionary didnt even attempt peace talks leaving both factions bursting at the seams with unresolved tensions.

and yet blizzard thinks that this moment is where the faction war can be convincingly ended. not only that but they worked hard and spent 2 years bringing the story to this point to end the faction war.

are we dealing with the stupidest writers the world has ever produced. has there ever been a worse piece of fiction than battle for azeroth. none of this stands up to even a second of critical thought. who wrote this. are they ashamed of what they have produced. was this really the best that could be done under the restrictions of blizzard's awful gameplay-first writing methods.

we are at the bottom of a very deep well here my friends

The Horde's leader just abandoned them, after yelling out that they are all her tools.
And it was Saurfang's funeral. The horde doesn't currently have a leader that is in the position to make the call for peacetalks.
Either: When Bane or Thrall take the mantle of warchief (it's likely to be one of them, IMO). Then we'll probably get the peacetalks.

[Kyphael]

It was a stupid rushed ending indeed, but so relieving due to how torturous this Faction War was that even as bad an ending it was, at least it put an end to the entire 5 car wreck pile up.

[Reyuna]

I'll still be killing every Human, Dwarf, Nelf and Gnome I can get my hands on.

[Aresk]

Was that not made evident as a lie when multiple sections of 8.1 had to be adjusted on the PTR due to outrage from fans because of how terrible it was? They didn't even intend on people siding with Sylvanas at all. That was something that came at the players' own requests, and now it's expanded into something that may very well shape the next expansion

When writing anything, changing things based on feedback does not mean things were not considered or written in advance. To the contrary, it indicates that things were written and reviewed far enough in advance to implement changes. Also note that writing things in advance does not guarantee they will be of quality. You can accuse Blizzard of many things with this story, but I feel like accusing them of lying regarding writing things in advance requires more evidence than "they were willing to change something when they received feedback about it."

[allawyn]

The Horde's leader just abandoned them, after yelling out that they are all her tools.
And it was Saurfang's funeral. The horde doesn't currently have a leader that is in the position to make the call for peacetalks.
Either: When Bane or Thrall take the mantle of warchief (it's likely to be one of them, IMO). Then we'll probably get the peacetalks.

The key is probably that the cinematic showed Anduin feeling like he could give orders to "Horde" soldiers and Saurfang backing him up.

The Horde doesn't really exist at the moment, and the remains are under Alliance control.

[Garymorilix]

Not all faction leaders were present for the ending of the previous faction war either. Does it mean it hasn't ended? Not all zones affected by war have been explicitly explained (in fact, majority of them were brushed under the carpet). Does that mean that war hasn't ended? After SoO Orcs haven't had a racial leader until Legion (and even then it was mentioned via Twitter). Does that mean the previous faction war hasn't ended? The answer to all those questions is "no". What you brought up is utterly irrelevant. Also, Gallywix ran the hell away after burning incriminating documents and Horde is Alliance's subject as all of its remaining leaders are people who betrayed the faction prior to 8.2.5 and crawled over to the Alliance. So those two are already there.

You mean the end of MoP, right?
Which racial leader wasn't there?

[Syegfryed]

Alliance cries about HORDE BIAS about literally everything (latest example being a thread complaining that Alliance having to run a dungeon to unlock Dark Iron Dwarves is HORDE BIAS) and has done so for years. Making them lose a faction war wouldn't change anything in that regard. Blizzard wrote it the way they did because they wanted to. Particularly because they wanted to grace the world with more of their fortune cookie "wisdom" about the power of friendship that they pretend is enlightened.

if they make the alliance lose the faction war i bet that after putting the forums in crazy riot, they would do a protest in front of Blizzard headquarters

[Garymorilix]

Not all faction leaders were present for the ending of the previous faction war either. Does it mean it hasn't ended? Not all zones affected by war have been explicitly explained (in fact, majority of them were brushed under the carpet). Does that mean that war hasn't ended? After SoO Orcs haven't had a racial leader until Legion (and even then it was mentioned via Twitter). Does that mean the previous faction war hasn't ended? The answer to all those questions is "no". What you brought up is utterly irrelevant. Also, Gallywix ran the hell away after burning incriminating documents and Horde is Alliance's subject as all of its remaining leaders are people who betrayed the faction prior to 8.2.5 and crawled over to the Alliance. So those two are already there.

Lookie lookie what just happened.

Exactly what I said would. Now we can start talking about it.

[Mehrunes]

Provide a source that it doesn't. By the fact that it is an available rout, the quest dose exist, and the item itself dose seem to indicate that the events of stormheim have not completely played out yet we can assume that that would be the intended progression of events, because it would make zero seance for it to be treated the way it was in a post SH scenario where we would expect something more along the lines of "Oh, if only we had gotten this info before going.".

Google burden of proof. Also "the events of Stormheim have not completely played out yet"? Wat? We're talking about Azsuna predating the entirety of Stormheim, not just some parts of it.

Being in game, and a possible rout that dose help explain the events leading into SH not good enough for you?

Nope.

Even the info the Alliance got wasn't complete? the same can be said of the Horde going in. Sylvanas manged to keep some/most of her plan a secret at least.
At that point you can indeed say it was still a rash spurt of the moment decision, but considering what we know now we can also say he made the right call, even if it was made with shaky info and rash judgment.

Which part of Genn having no idea what Sylvanas was after even after the attack did you not understand? Him having incomplete info would constitute some idea. Not no idea at all.

The heroes arrived after the the initial events and by that point Alliance spies had died, try again.

But the spies only get killed when the Horde hero arrives... Besides, when Alliance player arrives in Silithus they are informed that previous methods of passive observation didn't get any results and as such they are ordered with more proactive approach (i.e. killing Goblins). And even though they are working under Alliance's most esteemed intelligence agency, they are not informed of any spies from the team tasked with the previous approach being killed. Even though that information would indicate the Horde is already aware of Alliance presence, making it crucial to the new agent (i.e. player) on which their very life would depend. Meaning that, unless SI:7 is somehow completely retarded despite being a top intelligence agency, there were no dead (or even discovered) Alliance members prior to Alliance player's arrival. Meaning that Alliance questline starts before the Horde one.

And even if the Horde questline was first, the Horde has the right to protect their own camps from Alliance intrusion. Alliance on the other hand has no right to intrude on Horde territory. Meaning that the Alliance would be the aggressor regardless.

You mean the end of MoP, right?
Which racial leader wasn't there?

Velen, Malfurion, most of the Dwarven leaders, Aysa.

Lookie lookie what just happened.

Exactly what I said would. Now we can start talking about it.

What on earth are you bragging about? There's no further war in 9.3. Anduin confirms the factions have an armistrice by the time of 9.3. Meaning that, lookie lookie, faction war was done for in 9.2.5.

[Garymorilix]

Google burden of proof. Also "the events of Stormheim have not completely played out yet"? Wat? We're talking about Azsuna predating the entirety of Stormheim, not just some parts of it.




Nope.




Which part of Genn having no idea what Sylvanas was after even after the attack did you not understand? Him having incomplete info would constitute some idea. Not no idea at all.




But the spies only get killed when the Horde hero arrives... Besides, when Alliance player arrives in Silithus they are informed that previous methods of passive observation didn't get any results and as such they are ordered with more proactive approach (i.e. killing Goblins). And even though they are working under Alliance's most esteemed intelligence agency, they are not informed of any spies from the team tasked with the previous approach being killed. Even though that information would indicate the Horde is already aware of Alliance presence, making it crucial to the new agent (i.e. player) on which their very life would depend. Meaning that, unless SI:7 is somehow completely retarded despite being a top intelligence agency, there were no dead (or even discovered) Alliance members prior to Alliance player's arrival. Meaning that Alliance questline starts before the Horde one.

And even if the Horde questline was first, the Horde has the right to protect their own camps from Alliance intrusion. Alliance on the other hand has no right to intrude on Horde territory. Meaning that the Alliance would be the aggressor regardless.




Velen, Malfurion, most of the Dwarven leaders, Aysa.




What on earth are you bragging about? There's no further war in 9.3. Anduin confirms the factions have an armistrice by the time of 9.3. Meaning that, lookie lookie, faction war was done for in 9.2.5.

That the story didn't end in 8.2.5. Look at all the closure we got. This is the end of the war story.

Horde council, Tyrande, Rokhan, Calia and Derek. I personally don't think we'll get a zandalari pov, just cause they are isolated regarding the rebellion, but it would be nice to have that too.
Maybe we even get Gallywix stuff in the goblin scenario too, still waiting on that.

I called it. I called it all.

[Avellon]

Probably Syl wants death because clinging to hope in the face of Nzoth is terribly naive. Undeath is the enemy of the void, but itself is a shitty way to.. live, unlive?
Anyway, Blizzard has never been a good story teller, just marginally decent here and there.
And I am not referring to story ending how I want, but it being well crafted and making sense.

[nonameelf]

The factions make no sense.

The Alliance only benefits humans.
The Horde only benefits whoever is Warchief at the time.

Everyone else just gets screwed over repeatedly.

[Dacu]

Just take a look at what Soviets and Allies did to Germany after WW2. Heavy sanctions and reparations are the norm, it's nothing unusual or unheard of.

Sorry but it seems that you're insinuating that the Nazi's had the majority of the German military actively fighting against them. You got the heavy sanction part right, but not the fact that a large portion of the horde is against (and actively able to rebel) the dictatorship of Sylvanas.