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  1. #181
    So, you want a broken and unbalanced game you can exploit and are unable to understand that while the exploit or overpowered ability is fun for the person using it, it's not for those it's being used against. If not adressed it's a cancer to the game because people not having fun on the other side of the exploit will leave.

    Think of it in games where the results of unbalance is more rapidly obvious like fighters. If one character dominates all others, everyone will use that character or stop playing effectively killing the game unless the OP character is nerfed or banned.

    AKA you are self centered and i have no sympathy. You are not the only person playing this game. Exploiting or leaving Iwin abilities in is in fact NOT FUN.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2019-10-07 at 12:04 AM.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensa1 View Post

    I tanked 5 man's and off-tanked a few lower level raid bosses in mostly dps gear by simply using the Blood presence which increased Stamina by 20%, base armour by 30%, reduced damage by 10% and greatly increased threat generation. That was enough to tank the content I referred to and not have to worry about having a complete tank set and or being fully tank spec'ed in the Blood tree. As I said it was fun to be able to do that and when they took that option away and forced you to pick one spec and/or completely double your efforts from a gear obtaining point that class lost its charm.
    Sigh, like i said, dont keep going with this, it will only get worse. All three specs tanked when they were introduced. So you didnt need to be "blood specced" to tank.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by AlmightyGerkin View Post
    Wow hasn't been an rpg since wotlk.
    Really all that needs to be said. Way too much of the soul of the game was ripped out to make "balance" easier for the devs. To be fair choosing between a 5lb bag of sand and a 5lb bag of dirt is very balanced I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    Do we really have to go through another "old talents vs new talents" thread?

    You never had more customisation in wow than you have right now on retail. It's not creativty you are missing, its imbalance that worked in your favor.
    Hahaha, nice one

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    All i want is to spread my wings with imagination...and for them to not be cut mid expansion.
    This happened 3 times in a row in BfA.
    I was left with nothing to live for.

    RPG? Not so much
    So because you do less damage you say they cut your wings

    I'm a monk... they keep screwing with my specs but I still have them

    Sure kickweaving apparently is not viable for raids but I make it work

    My tank no longer has a keg throw or the ability to Zen med while moving but I can still make it broken af

    My DPS spec no longer gets hot combo to be worth the talent choice but the playstyle is still fun

    If you only feel happy when you are OP then that is one playstyle I won't understand

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
    Well, once upon a time there was this little talent called "Clarity of Power..."

    Not only did they kill that talent, they killed Mind Spike too. Just for good measure. Just to see if they could prank us twice, they added Surrender to Madness and then smashed our faces into it just as we went to take a bite.
    It got nerfed because ppl bitched about it killing them lol

    Loved that talent

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    I agree with OP, tune instead of completely remove or 70% (100%) nerf fun playstyles.



    The definition of white knight right here ^
    The Nerf is tuning

  6. #186
    Bloodsail Admiral Krawu's Avatar
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    "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down."

    Old Japanese proverb. Even if everyone likes the nail, Blizz don't care!

  7. #187
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    RPG's are known for giving the ability to players to "spread their wings"...except blizzard cuts our wings everytime.
    That doesn't work in multiplayer games. You can grab NVN and make a couple of campaigns if you need freedom
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensa1 View Post

    It was the start of pruning because the old talent trees were taken away and replaced with the current system, everything was baked in and they simply gave every class the same basic utilitiy sets leading to mass, uninspiring homogenization of the classes. While their may have been some genuine concern regarding the situations you refer to the solution they came up with wasn't surgical it was a blunt, lazy hammer that undermined core class identity and gameplay....making every character basically the same but with slightly renamed talents meant they were all boring. And despite this "simple" and "lazy" approach to the problem they still couldn't balance crap and they still haven't been able to come up with raid mechanics that are balanced around types of classes (range, melee etc). It's the same type of lazy thinking that lead to professions becoming useless. And every iteration since, when they have either doubled down on the philosophy or tried to revert some of the negative consequences just compounded the problem further. In fact you ended up with BFA where starting with the Beta everybody and their dog apparently told them class design/talent were clunky and not fun. My only point is the root of all that is the lazy solution that "bring the player not the class" was.

    And here's a surgical example of how you deal with stacking shamans. Change the tool tip and how the effect works to this...In a Raid group Bloodlust can only be used once every 5 mins or once while you are still in combat...whichever is longer. See..simple solution that doesn't require total class homogenization and solves the problem.
    So you want us to come back to the day when people kick you out because you not playing certain classes? Talk about balance, there has always been this thing called "meta" in case you're not aware of. But as of this moment, every classes can perform well in the end game, if you are not talking about that 1% player base who's trying to get first kill mythic raid or something.
    The thing about class with same skill but different name, every MMORPG bases its skill on this frame of resource builder, resource spender and utility. So yea, if you boil down to that, it's all the same, no shet. Flavour has always been nothing more than a block of text that give skill/character some kind of background, dont try to over-complicated it.
    I dont see how class design related to profession design but well, it's another discussion, not this thread.

  9. #189
    Balancing sucks and there should be way more traits.

    Right now? 1 Trait set is best and if you don't have that screw you i guess.

    Yesterday i got kicked out of a +17 boralus because my WW didn't have the third open palms trait. Like...it's not even that i want to step out of line but i have to because of missing other options but it still feels bad to be locked in that one set of options.

  10. #190
    The game has to be balanced so aggressively because it's an MMO, everything has to be more or less in line. Heck, nowadays even singleplayer RPG devs try to balance classes/abilities better because people will bitch incessantly on steam/reddit/forums.

    But given that the game has 36 "classes" nowadays, it's also fairly safe to assume that Blizz intentionally undertune/nerf certain specs so people don't play the same class/build/spec all the time. MOBA devs do the same things, they try to retire some heroes for a season or two by nerfing them, I think GC had a post about it either on LoL forums or his tumblr. The more classes/heroes a game has, the more devs try to rotate them via aggressive balancing/tuning.
    Last edited by ls-; 2019-10-07 at 06:21 AM.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by ls- View Post
    The game has to be balanced so aggressively because it's an MMO, everything has to be more or less in line. Heck, nowadays even singleplayer RPG devs try to balance classes/abilities better because people will bitch incessantly on steam/reddit/forums.

    But given that the game has 36 "classes" nowadays, it's also fair safe to assume that Blizz intentionally undertune/nerf certain specs so people don't play the same class/build/spec all the time. MOBA devs do the same things, they try to retire some heroes for a season or two by nerfing them, I think GC had a post about it either on LoL forums or his tumblr. The more classes/heroes a game has, the more devs try to rotate them via aggressive balancing/tuning.
    Thank you for explaining this simple thing to all the people here, how I pulling my hair each time people whining class indentity and balancing at the same time...

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    I wouldnt call remove any usefulness of said playstyle what so ever "tuning" rather than "removing" it all together but yeah.
    A majority of his complaints were over a Nerf

    If they Nerf a playstyle by 70% it's not removed

    Heck my outlaw rogue uses SnD because fuck that BS RNG crap

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by ls- View Post
    The game has to be balanced so aggressively because it's an MMO, everything has to be more or less in line. Heck, nowadays even singleplayer RPG devs try to balance classes/abilities better because people will bitch incessantly on steam/reddit/forums.

    But given that the game has 36 "classes" nowadays, it's also fairly safe to assume that Blizz intentionally undertune/nerf certain specs so people don't play the same class/build/spec all the time. MOBA devs do the same things, they try to retire some heroes for a season or two by nerfing them, I think GC had a post about it either on LoL forums or his tumblr. The more classes/heroes a game has, the more devs try to rotate them via aggressive balancing/tuning.
    Ability to switch characters in MOBA vs MMO is astronomically different. I hope that isn't how they design wow. I am a blood elf paladin. You cant just nerf "me" because I'm "not in season".

  14. #194
    OP crying about broken stuff that gets fixed/brought in line. Nothing to see here.

  15. #195
    all this "game died with wotlk" BS is so out of date honestly.

    PVP:
    Classic: because being oneshot with windfury, stunlocked to eternity by rogue and sheeped to eternity by mage was SO much fun in classic.
    TBC: because SL/SL warlocks were fun to play against, because being oneshot by palas in late TBC was engaging AF.
    WotLK: what an awesome feeling of playing vs imbalanced DKs at launch, or because war/dk/ret with ShM was also very fun to play against.

    PVE:
    Classic: because having 'versatility' while half of specs were legit dead was great way of creating a multiplayer game. Even right now each PvE tank is forced to play warrior not because he wants, but because he has to.
    TBC: yea, warlock expansion, but apart from that was indeed a good one.
    WotLK: arcane blast spam was very immersive and engaging gameplay. Should I remind about all the whining from BMs, sub, surv, frost, arms, destros and eles about their specs being below mediocre? Yeaa, blizz definitely allowed "stepping out of the line" /s.

    TL;DR: each expansion has it's "stepping out of the line" moments, but it's only fun when you are playing the overpowered class. Some people tend to stick to one class and cba leveling alt each time someone is op.
    Longevity of the game proves that balance>imbalance.
    Last edited by ornichi; 2019-10-07 at 06:46 AM.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Ability to switch characters in MOBA vs MMO is astronomically different. I hope that isn't how they design wow. I am a blood elf paladin. You cant just nerf "me" because I'm "not in season".
    I think his core idea(That the developers like freshening up what players do) is correct, but they do it on an expansion by expansion basis. They tweak/change/completely replace the playstyle of various classes and specs because they want to freshen up your playstyle, and new expansions bring in new systems and mechanics, which lets them change around things without ending up in the same place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Addiena
    Whats the saying .. You have two brain cells and they are both fighting for third place !

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    But you neglect to mention that the group of randoms you came up against, your little premade ruined their chance of having fun. It's a very self centered mindset. Turns out, when they changed it so premade only came against other premades, surprise surprise, no one queued. Same with twinking - once twinks only came up against other twinks, no one did it anymore.

    Gaining a huge advantage over a bunch of ppl is fun for the ones with the massive advantage, and extremely negative for everyone else.

    Another example is tanks in pvp who think they should be almost impossible to kill. This might be fun for the tank, but it's fucking horribly boring gameplay for everyone else involved.
    Dosen't mean it wasent enjoyed. And the randoms could form their own premades if it annoyed them. PS doing achives in BG these days is impossible, litterally insane to get BM or Khan title now (I have BM, but from back in...2010?), cause we cant progress without premades...or using...lets say other creative ways, wont say more than that or the useal armchair warriors who dont grind properly in this game (aka ppl with 6k achive) will just get mad.
    Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/djuntas ARPG - RTS - MMO

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    Ho yeah the goold old times when a weird pvp spec would lend to a nerf heavily impacting pve. And vice versa.
    That was so much better.
    I miss my 30 second long berserk that cut costs by 50%, broke fear, and made me immune to fear for the duration. Now it's 15% seconds of 40% cost reduction flat. =-(

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    The definition of white knight right here ^
    yes ofc if you run out of logical argument you just claim anyone disagreeing with you to be a white knight like every typical blizzard hater.

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