Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Kiri]

It seems clear where the problem lies, right?

The only way your scenario actually works, is if Republicans are the ones who are the real problem.

Why can you not admit it?

That is the problem when you have a group that steadfastly believes that they are right, mayhap even reinforced by religious beliefs. The 'both sides' thing actually kind of works in a twisted way, for those that don't just use it disingenuously. There are probably a lot of people in the US who think that those on the right threatening violence are wrong, but they also believe that democrats are at fault for provoking them by following 'objectively' false information/beliefs. It is sad, but that seems to be the case these days.

[Machismo]

That is the problem when you have a group that steadfastly believes that they are right, mayhap even reinforced by religious beliefs. The 'both sides' thing actually kind of works in a twisted way, for those that don't just use it disingenuously. There are probably a lot of people in the US who think that those on the right threatening violence are wrong, but they also believe that democrats are at fault for provoking them by following 'objectively' false information/beliefs. It is sad, but that seems to be the case these days.

In the end, there is no good reason to pander to racists and fascists. All that group will do, is try and take more and more.

Sure, their cognitive dissonance is a problem, but studies have shown that showing them the correct answer only makes them believe in their wrong answer even more.

I have no desire to placate ignorant people who believe 2+2=5.

[PACOX]

What the press should do, and won't do, is start questioning the credibility of these people who deny reality.

You want to pretend facts aren't real? Okay. Next time you want to speak on something else I going ask why I should believe you.

Its actually dangerous to give such people a platform. The media does not care because clowns get clicks. Democrats think the clowns will talk themselves out of office - been waiting 20 years for that to happen.

[Edge-]

What the press should do, and won't do, is start questioning the credibility of these people who deny reality.

Listening to Peter Navarro machine-gun talking points and lie on NPR this morning was infuriating. Media should stop allowing people on who straight up lie to them, period. If that means the administration is left with no spokespeople, stop fucking lying. Stop extending a professional courtesy to these guests who are using the platform provided to shit on everything, and start cutting their mics and calling them on their lies if you must have them on.

[Breccia]

I'll be posting on topic.

House chairs subpoena Pentagon and Office of Management and Budget

The House Intelligence, Foreign Affairs and Oversight committees on Monday subpoenaed the Department of Defense and the White House Office of Management and Budget for documents related to President Trump's efforts to push Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden.

"Whoa whoa whoa! What did they do?"

Ah, see, remember when the DoD approved the Ukraine aid July 18 and Trump had the phone call July 25 and the aid didn't move until Sept 11?

The first excuse was "foreign aid is too expensive". That excuse didn't last, of course, but it's what they used at first.

However, then they moved to "we're not ready yet"

Over the summer, it emerged that the Trump administration was delaying the release of this year's $250 million installment.

It is a decision cloaked in mystery. By late August, according to congressional aides, the White House budget office acknowledged it was responsible for the delays, saying a policy review was underway.

"The President has been consulting with his national security leadership team to determine the best use of Ukraine security assistance funds to achieve US national security interests," Office of Management and Budget staff wrote in an email to House Appropriations Committee staff aides. Agencies, OMB said, "must wait to obligate them until the policy review process is complete and the President had made a final determination."

Just so we're clear, the Pentagon did delay aid until Ukraine had demonstrated they were going to use it fairly. But in May the Pentagon had agreed they'd done enough. There was no other known official policy review that pre-dated the July 25th call.

Also, from the whistleblower's --

"Which one?"

The first one. From his report:

On 18 July, an Office of Management and Budget (OMB) official informed Departments and Agencies that the president "earlier that month" had issued instructions to suspend all U.S. security assistance to Ukraine. Neither OMB nor the NSC staff knew why this instruction had been issued. During interagency meetings on 23 July and 26 July, OMB officials again stated explicitly that the instruction to suspend this assistance had come directly from the President, but they still were unaware of a policy rationale. As of early August, I heard from U.S. officials that some Ukrainian officials were aware that U.S. aid might be in jeopardy, but I do not know how or when they learned of it.

So the OMB is 100% involved in this. The OMB held up aid voted on by Congress and approved and prepared by the Pentagon, and they held it up for months. An explanation is overdue, but it's almost irrelevant at this point. Once the administration gave three different mutually exclusive reasons for withholding the aid, not only were two of them false, but it's a safe bet all three of them were false. And that the whistleblower can tell us why.

[Kokolums]

Nope.

Poke the bear. Society cannot run if one side is completely impervious to reality.

Do not coddle psychopaths. That’s a cowardly reaction.

If they are violent, let them suffer the consequences.

if a large percentage of your nations population has lost all trust in the system, and the reaction is to call them psychopaths, dont be surprised if so iety tears itself apart. Either you help heal the division by listening to their complaints, or you are pushing the society towards conflict.

If democrats were stepping up across the nation to recognize how whites feel increasingly disenfranchised and pushing to change society to be more inclusive of them and whites didnt moderate, you might be able to blame whites. But i dont see any high ground being taken. Instead democrats go to the dirt and say dont coddle keep pushing and call them names.

[TigTone]

if a large percentage of your nations population has lost all trust in the system, and the reaction is to call them psychopaths, dont be surprised if so iety tears itself apart. Either you help heal the division by listening to their complaints, or you are pushing the society towards conflict.

If democrats were stepping up across the nation to recognize how whites feel increasingly disenfranchised and pushing to change society to be more inclusive of them and whites didnt moderate, you might be able to blame whites. But i dont see any high ground being taken. Instead democrats go to the dirt and say dont coddle keep pushing and call them names.

Wealthy Majority (whites) oppressing poor majority (whites);

Reaction of the oppressed: take it out on the minorities and immigrants it’s all their fault!

Meanwhile let’s keep voting and empowering our oppressors.

[Machismo]

if a large percentage of your nations population has lost all trust in the system, and the reaction is to call them psychopaths, dont be surprised if so iety tears itself apart. Either you help heal the division by listening to their complaints, or you are pushing the society towards conflict.

If democrats were stepping up across the nation to recognize how whites feel increasingly disenfranchised and pushing to change society to be more inclusive of them and whites didnt moderate, you might be able to blame whites. But i dont see any high ground being taken. Instead democrats go to the dirt and say dont coddle keep pushing and call them names.

Their complaints are racist and fascist. Should we have simply heard Hitler out whilst he was calling to enslave and murder the Jews?

Nah. You don't pander to authoritarians and racists. It doesn't work. People already tried being reasonable with them, it didn't work. It won't work, until the alt-right and racists realize they are the problem.

Let me know when that happens... Of course, since you are trying to blame the Democrats for the other side pushing towards racism and fascism, methinks you are talking to the wrong people. Why don't you go try talking to the racists and fascists, and convince them to not be fascists, instead of blaming others?

[DocSavageFan]

The fact you are defending Trump tells me all I need to know about you tbh. Defending the indefensible and unforgivable. I have realized this for a long time already but there is literally almost nothing we will be able to see eye to eye about, save for the fact you despise dishonest politicians... but then play apologist for one that is openly corrupt and dishonest.

There is no difference between a democrat blind for Hillary's corruption, because she does her best to hide it and a republican who is blind for Trump's corruption because they do their own best not to see it themselves.

Dude, you bald-faced lied about what I said and then called me "a complete liar and or a corrupt malevolent person who does not have the best interest of the American people or democracy at heart." That's really fucked up...but instead of apologizing, you double down with your insane horseshit. Goodbye.

[Endus]

if a large percentage of your nations population has lost all trust in the system, and the reaction is to call them psychopaths, dont be surprised if so iety tears itself apart. Either you help heal the division by listening to their complaints, or you are pushing the society towards conflict.

They're the ones, in your argument, who are becoming violent. Based on lies and propaganda. That makes them terrorists, not people whose interests should be listened to.

If democrats were stepping up across the nation to recognize how whites feel increasingly disenfranchised

Why should they entertain the persecution complexes of racist idiots?

Because you'd have to be a racist idiot to believe that "whites are increasingly disenfranchised".

[Cizr]

Listening to Peter Navarro machine-gun talking points and lie on NPR this morning was infuriating. Media should stop allowing people on who straight up lie to them, period. If that means the administration is left with no spokespeople, stop fucking lying. Stop extending a professional courtesy to these guests who are using the platform provided to shit on everything, and start cutting their mics and calling them on their lies if you must have them on.

I felt the same way when I saw Schiff talk about the Ukraine call and then quickly going full damage control and calling it just parody when he was called out on making up shit.

[Edge-]

I felt the same way when I saw Schiff talk about the Ukraine call and then quickly going full damage control and calling it just parody when he was called out on making up shit.

You mean when he clearly indicated that he was paraphrasing text and not reading it verbatim? I mean, if this is the best deflection you have then I suggest looking for a new one.

[Cizr]

You mean when he clearly indicated that he was paraphrasing text and not reading it verbatim? I mean, if this is the best deflection you have then I suggest looking for a new one.

Ah yeah "paraphrasing" to make it look way worse than it was.

[Machismo]

Ah yeah "paraphrasing" to make it look way worse than it was.

Oh, it looked pretty fucking bad to anyone who isn't a die-hard Trumpster.

It's weird how often Trump keeps getting caught soliciting help from foreign entities to go after his political enemies.

[Edge-]

Ah yeah "paraphrasing" to make it look way worse than it was.

Yes, and? He didn't make up a quote or lie, as you and the conservative line of argument allege.

Given Trump, this should be very familiar territory for y'all.

[Breccia]

Ah yeah "paraphrasing" to make it look way worse than it was.

Well, Trump did intentionally hide the official transcript, so, if you have a problem with people "paraphrasing" I'm sure you'll be honest and point out that Trump is the only one who did it. After all, Schiff can't accurately read a transcript he doesn't have, right? It'd be dishonest to suggest otherwise?

[Machismo]

I'm rather curious as to what the point of you even commenting was?

What was the point of your initial comment? I asked for clarification, and I got none... how odd.

[Cizr]

Yes, and? He didn't make up a quote or lie, as you and the conservative line of argument allege.

Given Trump, this should be very familiar territory for y'all.

He made it up and lie but you prefer to call it "paraphrasing". Why "paraphrasing" it with fake quotes and not read the transcript ?

[Machismo]

He made it up and lie but you prefer to call it "paraphrasing". Why "paraphrasing" it with fake quotes and not read the transcript ?

Well, we won't know, until Trump releases the audio that he went out of his way to hide... now will we?

People need to stop calling it a transcript, it's notes taken from a call.

[Cizr]

Well, Trump did intentionally hide the official transcript, so, if you have a problem with people "paraphrasing" I'm sure you'll be honest and point out that Trump is the only one who did it. After all, Schiff can't accurately read a transcript he doesn't have, right? It'd be dishonest to suggest otherwise?

You dont think him making up stuff is dishonest ?