new forsaken leader spoilers

[Trassk]

Even Voss isn't ideal if you ask me. She rejected being forsaken for nearly all of her screen time thus far. Then randomly *poofs* into the Horde in BfA.
She hasn't really done much for "her people" either. Just farmed lots of azerite for me.

well, she went though the whole suffering phase, but her learning about what matters for the forsaken would be continued growth for her.

[Friendlyimmolation]

further proof was making sylvanas lead the horde, when she had zero similar qualities with the races she was leading.

they did once and apparently they will do again, derek and calia will be the new nathanos and sylvanas

is just a spiral down to the dumpster

The funny part before they either had a stroke or just utterly borked the story they were trying to write, Sylvanas in before the storm knew she was different, and was still actively trying to lead the Horde well, Calia is just going to be an utter shit show.

[Kyphael]

Nah, they just gave Calia and Derek to the Horde and Lightforged Undead will be a Horde Allied Race.

Which begs the question what the Worgen allied race for the Alliance will be. Not many share the Worgen rig... Saberon?

[Mehrunes]

Change is a scary concept, I get that. It taints anything around you and makes even adapting to it hard. Don't worry, your learn that change in a story can actually introduce something, maybe something thats been needed for years.

Oh get off your non existent high horse. No one fucking said anything about change being scary. But I see you have nothing else than sad straw-man in rebuttal to the inorganic character of the change in question.

[Weatherwax]

Forsaken get a leader that actually cares about them, people still mad


Amazing

It's like people have never read what's written in Terenas' tomb. Who do they think buried him and wrote that, for crying out loud? It was the Forsaken. It also was the Forsaken who when meeting Calia in Before the Storm begged for her to take them under her wing.
Seriously, the Forsaken aren't the Apothecaries. They're not all evil. Most of them are just regular people, anyone walking around in Orgrimmar and hearing the refugees talk understands that. Plus they were truly happy under Terenas and loved the whole Menethil family, it's not their fault Arthas turned out to be a spoiled arse.

[Mehrunes]

The only thing in common Sylvanas had with The Forsaken of Lordaeron was they were both killed by Arthas. What does it matter the circumstance of one's death? They're all undead just the same. Calia meanwhile, grew up with presumably most of these Forsaken, she knows them by names, and can offer them comfort of her family name, Arthas notwithstanding, but Terenas who presumably is still considered a beloved king, versus the Undead elf that just spit on them and abandoned them.

What does the defining event in their history matter? Seriously? And Sylvanas didn't just happen to be killed by Arthas like them. She freed many of them personally. She organized them and turned them into a force that won the Civil War in the Plaguelands and became a nation. Calia meanwhile bailed on "her people" and chilled with other Priests in the safety of a Draenei sanctuary while "her people" died for their place in the world. A place that Calia's Alliance friends tried to deny them.

[Friendlyimmolation]

The only thing in common Sylvanas had with The Forsaken of Lordaeron was they were both killed by Arthas. What does it matter the circumstance of one's death? They're all undead just the same. Calia meanwhile, grew up with presumably most of these Forsaken, she knows them by names, and can offer them comfort of her family name, Arthas notwithstanding, but Terenas who presumably is still considered a beloved king, versus the Undead elf that just spit on them and abandoned them.

Calia did not suffer like them, has zero drawbacks to her undeath, admits she's somehow even more naive than Anduin and talks about following her HEART when it comes to leadership.

She either doesn't know how undeath changes some forsaken or she thinks she can hug it out of them, she thinks that she can bandaid everything that happened to the Forsaken with good vibes and her last name being Menithil, she's utterly unfit to be in charge of anything, much less the Forsaken.

Hell you didn't even have Forsaken like the ones begging to go to the Alliance until Golden shoehorned them in right next to Lordaeron now being a police state which hilariously flies in the face of all other Forsaken lore.

[Mehrunes]

It's like people have never read what's written in Terenas' tomb. Who do they think buried him and wrote that, for crying out loud? It was the Forsaken. It also was the Forsaken who when meeting Calia in Before the Storm begged for her to take them under her wing.

That was 11 people. The leader of the Desolate Council refused Calia. Not to mention all the members that left earlier.

[Tihani]

Which begs the question what the Worgen allied race for the Alliance will be. Not many share the Worgen rig... Saberon?

There doesn't have to be a "Worgen Allied race".

[Villager720]

That was 11 people. The leader of the Desolate Council refused Calia. Not to mention all the members that left earlier.

And, you know, Calia's only real action thus far got everyone, self included, murdered by Sylvanas.

Calia 2020. She'll get us thrice killed!

[Kyphael]

There doesn't have to be a "Worgen Allied race".

Then we're to assume there won't be an Undead allied race variant?

[Fabled]

...but I thought Calia wanted nothing to do with anything involving Lordaeron?

[Stormdash]

I was just thinking, you could probably split the playerbase up between those who understand Lillian Voss would be the best replacement for Sylvanas and those that actually think it should be Calia... and the latter ones, that just don't get the race or the faction, are the ones that get their way. The Horde is written around "what will make the most Alliance streamers think the Horde is well-written?"

[Syegfryed]

calling now:

Calia will be the new "leader" of the forsaken, but voss will be their voice in the horde council.

We will have a revamp of the starting areas like cata, from now on the forsakens will be different

first they were undeads free from the LK, vanilla-wtlk
later undeads raised by the valkyr cata-bfa,
now, they will be either redeemed by Calia or resurrected by voss/calia or something else

This will lead us to the new allied race of the pre-patch/9.0, lightforged undead, the race who is missing a allied variant.

[Mehrunes]

And, you know, Calia's only real action thus far got everyone, self included, murdered by Sylvanas.

Calia 2020. She'll get us thrice killed!

Well, technically they started to defect before Calia unmasked herself and encouraged everyone to defect. So it wasn't really her actions.

Then again Parqual recognized her even before that and it was one of the things that inspired him to defect... And Sylvanas only lost her shit when she learned about Calia and prior to that she was only testing them on how they'd react to the signal. So it's Calia's very existence that got everyone murdered there.

[Villager720]

Well, technically they started to defect before Calia unmasked herself and encouraged everyone to defect. So it wasn't really her actions.

Then again Parqual recognized her even before that and it was one of the things that inspired him to defect... And Sylvanas only lost her shit when she learned about Calia and prior to that she was only testing them on how they'd react to the signal. So it's Calia's very existence that got everyone murdered there.

I know. But as you then noted, Sylvanas didn't go a'murderin' until Calia went a'usurpin'.

[Stormdash]

Which begs the question what the Worgen allied race for the Alliance will be. Not many share the Worgen rig... Saberon?

Well, if Sylvanas had been around, the easiest way to come up with a Horde Worgen allied race would have been Wolfcult from Grizzly Hills, but without her... yeah, no idea.

- - - Updated - - -

...but I thought Calia wanted nothing to do with anything involving Lordaeron?

She renounced any claim to the throne... but Alliance players got butthurt, so I guess she's into it now.

[Tihani]

Then we're to assume there won't be an Undead allied race variant?

There doesn't have to be "one for every original race". That's just an idea the community came up with cause they saw all the faction leaders in the Allied Race room.

The question is, what is the rule?

Does it have to be related racially to the race? Like Kul Tirans are humans of Kul Tiras, so they could be counted as the "Human Allied Race". But they use a totally new model. So do the Zandalari trolls, at least the males. They are trolls, but not a variation of the old troll models exactly.

Other races however, like the Vulpera now, use the Goblin skeleton, but are not racially related to the Goblins. So do they count as the Goblin Allied Race? When they're not even Goblins?

Ok then what about undead variants? The two undead variants I can think of are Undead Lightforged, or the kind of model that Nathanos uses, which is a human with undead-like looks. But both of them would pretty much just be the human model with different skins. As far as I can tell from Calia, they look just like humans. But we already covered humans with the Kul Tirans.

So again, what's the rule here?

I think at the end of the day, Blizzard is gonna add Allied Races that make sense with the story that is presented and that look cool and are what players want. I don't think they sit around thinking "ok we'd like to do this or that, but we have to do a Worgen and Undead Allied race next to complete the set".

One of the "leaks" talks about how the next Allied Races after this are gonna be Undead Lightforged and some wereboar race that uses the Worgen skeleton. Now that would cover the Undead and the Worgen, so maybe it's true and maybe it makes sense. But I would still interject at that point, that Lightforged Undead wouldn't use the Forsaken skeleton, but the human skeleton, and therefore we'd have two "Human Allied Races", and none that is a variation of the Forsaken skeleton. So honestly, I think none of this matters, and Blizzard is just gonna add whatever is hot.

Like if they think "San'layn would be cool next" they're not gonna go "nah, have to do Worgen and Undead next, and we already have a Blood Elf variant".

[Fabled]

She renounced any claim to the throne... but Alliance players got butthurt, so I guess she's into it now.

-.- Wooo...

[Kyphael]

There doesn't have to be "one for every original race". That's just an idea the community came up with cause they saw all the faction leaders in the Allied Race room.

The question is, what is the rule?

Does it have to be related racially to the race? Like Kul Tirans are humans of Kul Tiras, so they could be counted as the "Human Allied Race". But they use a totally new model. So do the Zandalari trolls, at least the males. They are trolls, but not a variation of the old troll models exactly.

Other races however, like the Vulpera now, use the Goblin skeleton, but are not racially related to the Goblins. So do they count as the Goblin Allied Race? When they're not even Goblins?

Ok then what about undead variants? The two undead variants I can think of are Undead Lightforged, or the kind of model that Nathanos uses, which is a human with undead-like looks. But both of them would pretty much just be the human model with different skins. As far as I can tell from Calia, they look just like humans. But we already covered humans with the Kul Tirans.

So again, what's the rule here?

I think at the end of the day, Blizzard is gonna add Allied Races that make sense with the story that is presented and that look cool and are what players want. I don't think they sit around thinking "ok we'd like to do this or that, but we have to do a Worgen and Undead Allied race next to complete the set".

One of the "leaks" talks about how the next Allied Races after this are gonna be Undead Lightforged and some wereboar race that uses the Worgen skeleton. Now that would cover the Undead and the Worgen, so maybe it's true and maybe it makes sense. But I would still interject at that point, that Lightforged Undead wouldn't use the Forsaken skeleton, but the human skeleton, and therefore we'd have two "Human Allied Races", and none that is a variation of the Forsaken skeleton. So honestly, I think none of this matters, and Blizzard is just gonna add whatever is hot.

Like if they think "San'layn would be cool next" they're not gonna go "nah, have to do Worgen and Undead next, and we already have a Blood Elf variant".

I'm not sure, there seems to be a connection or theme between the allied races, but then like you said, Vulpera really have no connection to the Goblins. I'm more than open to allied races not being bound to the formula of established races counterparts, which would open us to the possibility of Mok'nathal or even Mogu, High Arakkoa, Jinyu or Ethereals.