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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    If you had bothered to followed the story, you would have known it wasn’t sylvanas either......
    It was Azshara,right? How convenient. Sylvanas did nothing wrong,right? It a part of a grander scheme mere mortals don't understand. Pathetic.
    If somebody is watching the Walking Dead series, the Alliance reminds me of the Rick and the survivors and the Horde reminds me of the Negan and the saviors in season 7 - The Horde comes into your base, takes whatever it wants and,eventually, Alliance is ending up saying "thank you for that".

  2. #62
    While I'd say this was undoubtedly a "Horde" expansion, as the Horde have driven the story ENTIRELY and Alliance have just been there to react occasionally....

    I shaln't complain as it seems the writers are just writing terrible bad fan-fiction for the Horde. A good light pure leader for the Forsaken? (does their name even make sense anymore if they're accepted by even the Alliance?) a council of peace-mongers leading the "Horde", Sylvanas being some embarrassing edge-lord puppet with her boytoy insert. I'd rather Blizzard ignored Alliance factions than butchered everything about why people love them entirely.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thorqin View Post
    After signing the armistice, the Horde didn't cede any territory, paid no reparations, didn't even say sorry lol. If anything they came out ahead. Sylvannas' army that she left behind was bigger than the combined forces of the Horde rebels and Anduin's army as stated by Alleria.
    God don't remind me how terrible the writing is.

    It's one thing to blame Sylvanas as the figurehead behind the Hordes actions at the time. It's a different to ENTIRELY ABSOLVE ALL the rest of the Horde of any guilt or part in the actions. Even Saurfang who's FUCKING PLAN THE ENTIRE ATTACK WAS was given a heroes send off with Anduin to help out. OH I'm sorry you eventually realised that helping with multiple different genocides was bad.
    BASIC CAMPFIRE for WARCHIEF UK Prime Minister!

  3. #63
    It find it humorous that when Cata and Garrosh came the overwhelming complaint was that people didnt like this new evil horde.

    Now that we're going back to pre-cata, the horde with the WC3 and vanilla mentality, it's a bad thing.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by kappalol View Post
    Alliance has a fucking spaceship m8.
    Which will never be used.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post
    Soooooo basically the end of MoP? That’s what the devs said after SoO. Look at how much that “superpower” angle played out in the narrative over the next three xpacs (HINT: it didn’t, ever).
    Didn't it though? From my understanding the Horde never fully recovered from SoO and was no where near as powerful as the Alliance was. After war broke out in BFA the Horde was losing on all fronts, the war was basically a foregone conclusion as far as the Alliance was concerned. BFA was basically our battle of the bulge, one last attempt to regain the advantage. Spoilers, it didn't work. We now lack leadership, economy, and an army. I am not even the slightest bit confident in blizzards ability to write us back into anything resembling strength, we're like the troll empires of old, we'll keep trying to get back to our formal glory but instead will just be another punching bag for raiders.

  6. #66
    But yes, this is why alliance players are quitting. No punishing the iron horde in WoD ("DRAENOR IS FREE!"), territory losses in Cata, and then everything in BFA pretty much.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    It find it humorous that when Cata and Garrosh came the overwhelming complaint was that people didnt like this new evil horde.

    Now that we're going back to pre-cata, the horde with the WC3 and vanilla mentality, it's a bad thing.
    I know, right?
    I’m actually happy to see the return of good old times when I don’t have to wait for my faction to unavoidably commit some atrocity or other.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    It find it humorous that when Cata and Garrosh came the overwhelming complaint was that people didnt like this new evil horde.

    Now that we're going back to pre-cata, the horde with the WC3 and vanilla mentality, it's a bad thing.
    The current Horde doesn't have a WC3 mentality and I say that as someone who finds the WC3 Horde dull as dishwater. The WC3 Horde was intended as a sort of noble savage slow to anger, but terrible if provoked force. It was still a military state, still had a Warchief who's intended conceit was that if you did piss him off he'd wreck you, see Blackmoore or Daelin. Or Cairne killing centaur instead of complaining. By the time it got into Vanilla it also had the Forsaken who were an entirely different animal and provided conflict and a separate spin to those who didn't like the main gist.

    Now the Horde abhorrs conflict to the point of self-destruction, lacks a Warchief and instead of just having the Forsaken as an add-on it has what's basically an Alliance colony in the form of the blood elves, nu-undead and nightborne who are in all visual and cultural aspects Alliance races, lacking even the figleaf of tribal organisation and shamanism to set them apart. It's like a parody of the WC3 Horde.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post

    they lost only the population in teldrassil.
    A detail lost upon just about everyone. Apparently losing the population of a 12-13 year old city when you have a 15k year old empire is equal to genocide, who knew?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    It find it humorous that when Cata and Garrosh came the overwhelming complaint was that people didnt like this new evil horde.

    Now that we're going back to pre-cata, the horde with the WC3 and vanilla mentality, it's a bad thing.
    I just want the faction to be consistent. I genuinly don't care that they end up being, evil, good, morally grey™, w/e. You go from being Alliance sidekicks in Legion to burning down the home of the people you just spent an entire expansion fighting alongside with, in addition to trying to kill its leader, who's life you saved about a year ago. Unless the writers finally stick to their guns when it comes to Horde identity, these types of complaints will never cease to exist.
    Last edited by ophion1990; 2019-10-08 at 10:54 AM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    The only people I tend to see doing the taurajo argument are salty alliance complaining that horde always use that argument.
    I dont know how you can tell if someone plays alliance on mmochamp - but i have seen the argument hundreds of times here.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Peebuddy View Post
    Didn't it though? From my understanding the Horde never fully recovered from SoO and was no where near as powerful as the Alliance was. After war broke out in BFA the Horde was losing on all fronts, the war was basically a foregone conclusion as far as the Alliance was concerned. BFA was basically our battle of the bulge, one last attempt to regain the advantage. Spoilers, it didn't work. We now lack leadership, economy, and an army. I am not even the slightest bit confident in blizzards ability to write us back into anything resembling strength, we're like the troll empires of old, we'll keep trying to get back to our formal glory but instead will just be another punching bag for raiders.
    Where are you getting this from? Anduin was shitting himself before the last battle because he and Saurfang together couldn’t master enough troops to feel confident in victory. And q vast majority of their enemies are now fighting for the Horde.
    And economy? Seriously? Azeroth is in global conflict every second year, if economy in this world was in any way realistic, we would be bashing each other with sticks.
    The Horde is in a better position then Alliance at the moment.

  12. #72
    Yeah, from going from "we are going to win this war in a few weeks" to "we need half of the horde and the whole alliance to defeat the other half of the horde". The horde just came out way on top in this war, the alliance lost big time at pretty much every step.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Canonicly, Horde, now that its properly unified, has the largest army. They state this outright in 8.2.5. Sylvaanas had the greatest army, and that army is the hordes.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Funny enough a lot of people are seeing this as a return to pre-cata days before Garrosh turned it into the WC2 horde. So, the other faction is gaining what it originally had.
    Sylvanas did, emphasis on the Sylvanas. The Horde is going through a transition and reform, what ever the Horde might have had is most certainly lost. The first thing any new regime does when it takes power is purge the military of any loyalists and if you've gone through the campaign as a loyalist would know is a lot. Its military is in shambles

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorqin View Post
    After signing the armistice, the Horde didn't cede any territory, paid no reparations, didn't even say sorry lol. If anything they came out ahead. Sylvannas' army that she left behind was bigger than the combined forces of the Horde rebels and Anduin's army as stated by Alleria. That army is now merged with the rebels, while the Humans are forced to conscript farmers, as their soldiers have suffered mass casualties. The Horde gained two new big kingdoms Zandalar and Suramar, while the alliance only gained one, Kul'Tiras.

    The Horde is now the undisputed power in Kalimdor, while having 2 mega cities in the middle of the continents (Suramar city and Dazar'alor) to the Alliance's 1 (Kul'Tiras), heck Broken isles might as well be considered Horde dominated territory since they not only have Surmamar, but Thunder Totem as well, while the Alliance has no mega hub on that mini continent. The Horde still retains a full fledged kingdom in the EK with direct access to the ocean. Horde's civilian population is largely unharmed, while the Alliance lost nearly their entire Night Elf civilian population who are now reduced to refugees.

    Horde is in a much better place than the Alliance, which now has divided leadership and growing fissures in terms of their direction. This war was an unmitigated disaster for the Alliance, while the Horde, all things being equal, did very well.
    The Horde is now itself a vassal state to the Alliance, so I'd call that a pretty big win for the blue team. It has no Warchief. Alliance icons now lead the Forsaken. It exists with knee bent to Stormwind.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    Wtf happend thou.

    Alliance was winning by a landslide. KIlling the king in dazar alor nd stuff. hordes eladers gathered and paniking, saying they have no troops.

    Then out of fucking nowere hordes suddenly have troops and mop the floor with the collective might of the alliance and burns teldrasil.

    And now all of a sudden the horde has a bigass army and the alliance has fuckall for soldiers?!

    Is that an accurate summary of what have happned sofar?

    What? Did someone build a timemachine and changed the timeline?
    You have the order of events really out of whack.

  15. #75
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    Which will never be used.
    It will be dusted off in the inevitable Void Lords showdown, but by that time we all will be a big happy family holding hands together, running in the field of pretty flowers singing songs of peace and happiness.

  16. #76
    Other than the NE, the Alliance didn't really lose much this war. The humans on the other hand, lost quite a it. Dwarves, gnomes and Draenei were just chilling at home, because I saw barely any of them all expansion.

    I can forgive a lot of Blizzards mistakes, because in the grand scheme of things most don't really matter and I get they only have time and resources to focus on key storylines, but one thing they are terrible at is scale. I understand in scenarios with NPC's, there's a limit to how many you can have running around before players PC's start melting, but in the grand story, they constantly forget about so many.

    Ironforge has been untouched since WoW began, the dwarves and gnomes haven't really been involved in many conflicts. Sure some have been there, but we've never seen their actual full armies. I get the gnomes lost a lot losing Gnomeregan, but that was years ago. The dwarves too, a few show up with some cool siege machines but never an army. The Draenei too, they've been practically non existent in BfA.

    Blizzard really need to remember there are more than just humans in the Alliance. On the Horde side, other than Baine, we rarely see Tauren or Bloodelves being involved in any kind of large scale. If they did, the final cutscene would have been very different because OP is right, suddenly this huge Army is sitting in Orgrimmar while the Alliance is gathering scraps of a resistance when there are three whole races who presumably have armies just sat at home doing nothing.

    The least they could do is address this and acknowledge those armies exist, but give some reason why they aren't there. Well, as long as it's better than the excuse of "The NE army is off somewhere for some explicable reason so there's no-one to defend Darnassuss", that was pretty weak.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    I felt I had to post this :

    Pretty much this.
    But then idiots like Necroxis who complained about HFC ending, look at Rebellion victory and go "This is fine." while the exact same thing happened. Simply because it's an HD cinematic.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Kwento View Post
    Where are you getting this from? Anduin was shitting himself before the last battle because he and Saurfang together couldn’t master enough troops to feel confident in victory. And q vast majority of their enemies are now fighting for the Horde.
    And economy? Seriously? Azeroth is in global conflict every second year, if economy in this world was in any way realistic, we would be bashing each other with sticks.
    The Horde is in a better position then Alliance at the moment.
    Sorry but I just don't see it, the leaders the Horde now seem more of a detriment than a strength. They're pacifists and appeasers but probably worse still is that they're predictable. If I were an Alliance leader I would be thanking every god there was because an opponent who is predictable is the greatest gift any politician can have. Garrosh was so dangerous partly because his aggression was so unpredictable, he constantly surprised just how far he would go. Sylvanas was so dangerous because she's bat shit crazy and no one knew wtf she was doing, how do you plan against that? Now our leaders are so bland and one dimensional we know what they're going to do 10 steps before they do, when you're that predictable it's easy to plan around you. Horde leadership is the lowest its ever been, which makes us the loser of this war. Cut off the head and the body will wither.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Peebuddy View Post
    Sorry but I just don't see it, the leaders the Horde now seem more of a detriment than a strength. They're pacifists and appeasers but probably worse still is that they're predictable. If I were an Alliance leader I would be thanking every god there was because an opponent who is predictable is the greatest gift any politician can have. Garrosh was so dangerous partly because his aggression was so unpredictable, he constantly surprised just how far he would go. Sylvanas was so dangerous because she's bat shit crazy and no one knew wtf she was doing, how do you plan against that? Now our leaders are so bland and one dimensional we know what they're going to do 10 steps before they do, when you're that predictable it's easy to plan around you. Horde leadership is the lowest its ever been, which makes us the loser of this war. Cut off the head and the body will wither.
    No need to be sorry, you are entitled to your opinion. But that’s what this is- Your opinion. As far as lore goes, the Horde is in control of a vast force, claimed by Alleria to be the only one capable of fighting N’zoth. We are also over Sylvanas and her bullshit and united like we haven’t been for years now.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorqin View Post
    After signing the armistice, the Horde didn't cede any territory, paid no reparations, didn't even say sorry lol. If anything they came out ahead. Sylvannas' army that she left behind was bigger than the combined forces of the Horde rebels and Anduin's army as stated by Alleria. That army is now merged with the rebels, while the Humans are forced to conscript farmers, as their soldiers have suffered mass casualties. The Horde gained two new big kingdoms Zandalar and Suramar, while the alliance only gained one, Kul'Tiras.

    The Horde is now the undisputed power in Kalimdor, while having 2 mega cities in the middle of the continents (Suramar city and Dazar'alor) to the Alliance's 1 (Kul'Tiras), heck Broken isles might as well be considered Horde dominated territory since they not only have Surmamar, but Thunder Totem as well, while the Alliance has no mega hub on that mini continent. The Horde still retains a full fledged kingdom in the EK with direct access to the ocean. Horde's civilian population is largely unharmed, while the Alliance lost nearly their entire Night Elf civilian population who are now reduced to refugees.

    Horde is in a much better place than the Alliance, which now has divided leadership and growing fissures in terms of their direction. This war was an unmitigated disaster for the Alliance, while the Horde, all things being equal, did very well.
    Long live the horde? But seriously, the axis of power shifted fully to the horde as early as cataclysm. TBC had major horde building and it continued, this is why I kept saying, people should join the horde, this is where it is happening. The first half of warcraft was alliance centric i.e Warcraft 1 to WoW Classic. WoW TBC to WoW BFA is horde. And I hope this 2 faction thing ends, go back to more factions like we had in WC3

    Seriously, i'm done with the horde/alliance bullshit.. Suramar and the night elves should be their own kingdom, Quel'thalas and the Thalassians their own.

    It's fine if there is more than one, but for it to be considered horde or alliance territories, where Elves really still don't fit in either faction and have enough identity to be their own faction with their own peoples is what is annoying me the most.

    The Elven alliance should be a thing. I also feel the trolls should be their own thing. Alliance should be humans/gnomes/dwarves , horde should be Orcs, Tauren, goblins

    Pandas and Draenei should be their own thing too operating in tandem with the big 3 (Elves, Humans, Orcs)
    Last edited by Beloren; 2019-10-08 at 11:37 AM.

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