How much is too much? (Corpse Camping)

[Ragedaug]

If what you are saying is true..then why, given this is a chance to revisit "Vanilla" WoW, would anyone roll on a PvP server? Surely, if what you propose is true, PvE realms would be full and PvP realms would be empty bar the one or two masochists that seem to enjoy that playstyle.

And please don't suggest that a large portion of the Classic player base is so new they would not know what a PvP realm is...

I suspect it's because historically the best servers for PVE end game content have been PVP servers, so you pick your poison. That said, it's easy to see players consistently roll over to PVP servers with a vast faction imbalance in their favor, and I suspect we'll still see more and more of that in Classic as players get an idea for what the populations are on each server.

So in return for answering your question, I would ask you to explain to me, why do people who want to world PVP roll PVP servers where there's no one on the other side to fight?

[munkeyinorbit]

It depends. If you’re a higher level (like ??) then it’s griefing regardless.

WRONG!
Killing a member of the other faction, no matter the level difference, is not griefing. Each player signed up to play on that realm. They both consented to getting killed by the opposing faction. I could sit there 24 7 camping a horde lvl19 on my alliance LVL 60 and constantly kill them all day every day for months. Years. This is not griefing. I can form 3 X 40 man raids and we can camp the horde base in ashenvale killing every player in sight for 1000 days. This is not griefing. There is ALWAYS a PvP solution. If you call this griefing then you really have no business in a PvP realm.

[schwank05]

If it's Red it's Dead. I don't care the level if I see a Horde in contested territory they are going to die.

[Battlebeard]

Even killing ANYONE right now, when the honor system is not in the game, is to me, completely unacceptable, sad and a huge nolife warning. Pvping without a reward, why would anyone do it?

Also, for 15 years, FIFTEEN DAMN YEARS, people have told me "why play on pvp servers if you hate pvp", well, the reason is because for 15 years, the best servers have all been pvp servers. The best guilds (for pve) are on pvp servers, and overall they have more players, which makes finding groups easier as well as AH prices lower etc. Objectively, whether you like pvp or not, PVE servers ARE worse in every way.

It comes down to decency and honor. If you can't win in a fair game, why even bother to win. 3vs1 or attacking lower levels is unfair, so whats the point. And why gank someone, if you can kill em easily, they are no challenge, so why do it.

And if you ENJOY griefing others, seek help, that's a sadistic behaviour and not many steps away from becoming a school shoter if you ask me.

[NoRest4Wicked]

I had a 60 rogue camping me (31 mage) in Hillsbrad today until I had a multi-minute rez timer. Was no big deal, first time getting camped, and I rolled a pvp realm. I was watching amazon prime anyways, logged into my bank toon to check auctions, all that. After that, he killed everyone in Southshore for about an hour, then eventually wandered off.

I'm sure he thought I was raging, but really it was a minor inconvenience at most. Not like I'm zipping through, I had 7 hours played at my current level.

[Eveningforest]

I've never griefed outside of BGs. I like fair fights and I like being lower lvl and underestimated. The only times I've killed someone 2 times in a row was when they previously ganked my lowbie alt.
I never attack anyone engaged with a mob, low health or afk. My twinks always searched for other twinks.
I'm a fucking carebear at heart.

[Potatowizard]

I enjoy being attacked. I generally don't go out of my way to attack. The idea someone wants to come up to me and smash my face in only to die in return? It's 2x more enjoyable then me engaging on an unsuspecting person.

Also (as I am a hunter) engaging on someone low or not aware is REALLY boring.

Pet goes in, aimed shot, conc shot, sting maybe, multi shot, scatter, trap, another aimed shot. You die. Cool. I get nothing out of that. Literally. In game or personally.

When pvp comes out and honor is activated.. this will change.

[THEORACLE64]

WRONG!
Killing a member of the other faction, no matter the level difference, is not griefing. Each player signed up to play on that realm. They both consented to getting killed by the opposing faction. I could sit there 24 7 camping a horde lvl19 on my alliance LVL 60 and constantly kill them all day every day for months. Years. This is not griefing. I can form 3 X 40 man raids and we can camp the horde base in ashenvale killing every player in sight for 1000 days. This is not griefing. There is ALWAYS a PvP solution. If you call this griefing then you really have no business in a PvP realm.

It absolutely is. If you're doing it over and over then yes, it's griefing.

[munkeyinorbit]

It absolutely is. If you're doing it over and over then yes, it's griefing.

Give me one source where a single or group of players were sanctioned because of engaging in PvP. Hearsay and "I know a friend..." are not a source.

Your lack of a source is proof that you cannot be griefing if you engage in legitimate PvP. Even if you do it for a prolonged period of time. A time up to and including forever.

Go on. Silence everyone.

- - - Updated - - -

I've never griefed...

Of course you haven't. It is impossible to grief someone in legitimate PvP.

[THEORACLE64]

Give me one source where a single or group of players were sanctioned because of engaging in PvP. Hearsay and "I know a friend..." are not a source.

Your lack of a source is proof that you cannot be griefing if you engage in legitimate PvP. Even if you do it for a prolonged period of time. A time up to and including forever.

Go on. Silence everyone.

- - - Updated - - -



Of course you haven't. It is impossible to grief someone in legitimate PvP.

It doesn't matter if people are sanctioned for it or not, it's still griefing. Did I say it's wrong though? No. Did I say people shouldn't do it? No. My original point was that on a PvP server I don't openly start shxt because me got things to do, but if people are greifing lower levels and I'm around then i'll help. Do I think it's utterly pathetic when higher levels go around picking on easy one-shot targets for "fun" and think it's griefing other players just because they can, rather than PvPing against people their own level (which they probably can't even take half their health off)? Well...

[Cyranis]

It doesn't matter if people are sanctioned for it or not, it's still griefing. Did I say it's wrong though? No. Did I say people shouldn't do it? No. My original point was that on a PvP server I don't openly start shxt because me got things to do, but if people are greifing lower levels and I'm around then i'll help. Do I think it's utterly pathetic when higher levels go around picking on easy one-shot targets for "fun" and think it's griefing other players just because they can, rather than PvPing against people their own level (which they probably can't even take half their health off)? Well...

https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/10184
All players can actively choose when they wish to engage in PvP combat.

The following actions may be considered dishonorable but are considered legitimate PvP tactics and will not be addressed by our Game Master staff:

Corpse camping
Killing players well below your level

World of Warcraft Classic
In World of Warcraft Classic, you can choose to create a character on a PvP realm.

That's all that needs to be said. You consented to pvp and all that entails when you roll on a pvp server. Period.

[THEORACLE64]

https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/10184
All players can actively choose when they wish to engage in PvP combat.

The following actions may be considered dishonorable but are considered legitimate PvP tactics and will not be addressed by our Game Master staff:

Corpse camping
Killing players well below your level

World of Warcraft Classic
In World of Warcraft Classic, you can choose to create a character on a PvP realm.

That's all that needs to be said. You consented to pvp and all that entails when you roll on a pvp server. Period.

Of course someone does, I’m not knocking that fact. My point is, just sitting around all day killing and low levels and prevent them from playing the game is griefing - like it or not. It’s how people play being the issue, rather than pvp realms themselves.

[Cyranis]

Of course someone does, I’m not knocking that fact. My point is, just sitting around all day killing and low levels and prevent them from playing the game is griefing - like it or not. It’s how people play being the issue, rather than pvp realms themselves.

Giving someone grief, sure, who likes getting ganked and camped? Griefing, as in the actionable offense. No sir. It's not.

[cparle87]

Snip

"The funny thing is that WoW was never particularly punishing when it came to the pvp aspect of the mmorpg experience. You lost no durability, you lost no gold, you lost no experience, the only thing that happens to you is that you have to run back to your body, yet somehow even this tiny hurdle is considered offensive in today's gaming standards."

This is the original post I was responding to. He was saying that there's really no punishment to dying anymore in WoW. I was pointing out one that is, to me at least, pretty major.

[Itisamuh]

WRONG!
Killing a member of the other faction, no matter the level difference, is not griefing. Each player signed up to play on that realm. They both consented to getting killed by the opposing faction. I could sit there 24 7 camping a horde lvl19 on my alliance LVL 60 and constantly kill them all day every day for months. Years. This is not griefing. I can form 3 X 40 man raids and we can camp the horde base in ashenvale killing every player in sight for 1000 days. This is not griefing. There is ALWAYS a PvP solution. If you call this griefing then you really have no business in a PvP realm.

This. Being a prick is not the same as griefing and is not breaking the rules. I have no idea how many times I corpse camped someone until they logged off back in the day for daring to kill my alt or some other offense. Red is dead is the whole point of the server type.

[Appelgren]

I don't corpse camp and I don't gank lowbies, that's just some straight up dickhead shit. I kill and keep it moving.

People who kill lowbies and corpse camp them probably has some sort of mental issue irl. But better they do this than collect heads from stray kittens I guess...

[tikcol]

I only corpse camp people that pissed me off for some reason. While I don't do it personally I don't find anything wrong with it. I don't get any satisfaction with it but I'm sure others might. Getting satisfaction when you're playing a game is always the end goal. Doesn't matter if you're ruining someone else's.

[Charge me Doctor]

WRONG!
Killing a member of the other faction, no matter the level difference, is not griefing. Each player signed up to play on that realm. They both consented to getting killed by the opposing faction. I could sit there 24 7 camping a horde lvl19 on my alliance LVL 60 and constantly kill them all day every day for months. Years. This is not griefing. I can form 3 X 40 man raids and we can camp the horde base in ashenvale killing every player in sight for 1000 days. This is not griefing. There is ALWAYS a PvP solution. If you call this griefing then you really have no business in a PvP realm.

Then go do that exactly, then return here and make a "blizzard and pussies and banned me for NOTHING!" thread.

I could sit there 24 7 camping a horde lvl19 on my alliance LVL 60 and constantly kill them all day every day for months.

At this point you are stalking other players, which is easily bannable.

I can form 3 X 40 man raids and we can camp the horde base in ashenvale killing every player in sight for 1000 days.

That's considered zone disruption, that's also bannable.

So yeah, go ahead and try to do that, i would love to hear how it'll turn out

- - - Updated - - -

https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/10184
All players can actively choose when they wish to engage in PvP combat.

Being stalked and targeted by bunch of players 24/7 is not pvp combat, it's stalking, and you will get scared off by a GM after accumulating reports, like it always used to be

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

"The funny thing is that WoW was never particularly punishing when it came to the pvp aspect of the mmorpg experience. You lost no durability, you lost no gold, you lost no experience, the only thing that happens to you is that you have to run back to your body, yet somehow even this tiny hurdle is considered offensive in today's gaming standards."

This is the original post I was responding to. He was saying that there's really no punishment to dying anymore in WoW. I was pointing out one that is, to me at least, pretty major.

Sure, I understand all that and I agree with you regarding the more esoteric punishments of getting ganked (like opportunity cost). But you were also referencing turning off War Mode to farm rares...which is not a thing that can be done in Classic.

In Classic...if you are on a PVP server...you just have to roll the dice as to whether or not you are going to get jumped by the opposing faction while you go about your daily tasks. I play on a PVP server and I accept that risk. The only real issues I take with ganking is in regards to behaviour like corpse camping. Kill me if you want...but then go about your day. Camping someone so much that they have no other option but to log out borders on player harassment,.

[Charge me Doctor]

Kill me if you want...but then go about your day. Camping someone so much that they have no other option but to log out borders on player harassment,.

If i'm farming vendigo furs in winterspring and you come about and start killing them aswell, i'd kill you over and over again until you walk out of my dedicated farm spot. It would be player harassment if i'd kill you specifically over and over again, track you around the globe, talk other into killing you, make a schedule with other players to track your daily logins - then it's player harassment. Defending your farm spot is not.