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  1. #121
    You really are into all this RP stuff ain't you?

    Well the horde isn't that much better off as you may think.
    Sylvanus's army wasn't huge like you make it out to be. It just had the advantage of being behind a giant wall; which is why everybody was so hesitant on the assault.
    Dazar'alor is still in ruins, with most of it's inhabitants dead, both from inner conflict and the assault by Alliance back in 8.1. It also has no navy left.
    Thundertotem and Suramar didn't exactly make it trough Legion intact. Why do you think they felt they needed to join a faction in the 1st place?

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    What gives you that impression. Forsaken were our last power house to arm wrestle against stormwind. Dark rangers, Sylvanas and Nathanos, maybe even the RAS left. The forsaken are defanged. So from a military perspective the horde is totally irrelevant now.
    it pretty much comes down to this: which do you think is bigger? the horde rebel army or the forces that left with sylvanas?

    i personally think the rebels were more numerous, but even if they were about equal, that still leaves the horde with an army capable of offensive action. the horde loyalist were expected to be able to siege a defender thunderbluff afterall.

    (a successful attack would probably require some subterfuge though, they would either have to trap the alliance army on its way home, or make sure they had the element of surprise. but its a moot points since we all know such an attack isn't happening)

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    Wtf happend thou.

    Alliance was winning by a landslide. KIlling the king in dazar alor nd stuff. hordes eladers gathered and paniking, saying they have no troops.

    Then out of fucking nowere hordes suddenly have troops and mop the floor with the collective might of the alliance and burns teldrasil.

    And now all of a sudden the horde has a bigass army and the alliance has fuckall for soldiers?!

    Is that an accurate summary of what have happned sofar?

    What? Did someone build a timemachine and changed the timeline?
    Plot armour happened.

  4. #124
    Epic! Whitedragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelinrah View Post
    Anduin was throwing away Alliance lives all expansion.
    Same can be said of the Horde, it's hilarious that the faction that was put together from roaming bands of nomads and nearly extinct races some how had anything left post MoP to even consider throwing at the Alliance, yet somehow they haven't bled out long ago, instead they now outnumber the Alliance.... what?....

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by raz98 View Post
    Seriously. Is nobody else bothered by the inconsistency of army strengths?
    How did the Alliance go from winning the war, horde outnumbered
    To
    Combined alliance and rebel forces dwarfed by Sylvanas' big dick massive army.
    Like how does that fucking compute?
    Why is nobody else bothered by this?
    At some point you stop getting worked up over it, and just despondently shrug “Yeah, Blizz writing...”, consistency is waaaaay down the ol’ priority list for the writers.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    All that is mostly true the only thing to correct is at the end the horde doesn't exist anymore.

    I'm just waiting for them to kill off Tyrande for being the only reasonable leader left.

    ...it's bizarre it's gotten to the point that Tyrande is the only reasonable one left.
    She was right about the Horde and Nightborne. Tyrande flipping off Anduin came at the expense of her adoptive daughter shaming her for being mean to Anduin. And for more dead horse beating, its heavily implied that the undead Night Elves will stay with the Horde, and replace worshiping Elune with worshipping Calia, a human. There's a comment I read that hypothesized that they want to mold and replace Tyrande with Shandris, who is more favorable to Human/Patriarchal culture.

    I dont doubt it. The writers seem to have a sick elf abuse fetish, and love getting off to dominating and humiliating the only playable Amazonian race in the game. Im surprised they didnt script Night Elf refugees in Stormwind offering to prostitute themselves to human men for survival.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorqin View Post
    After signing the armistice, the Horde didn't cede any territory, paid no reparations, didn't even say sorry lol. If anything they came out ahead. Sylvannas' army that she left behind was bigger than the combined forces of the Horde rebels and Anduin's army as stated by Alleria. That army is now merged with the rebels, while the Humans are forced to conscript farmers, as their soldiers have suffered mass casualties. The Horde gained two new big kingdoms Zandalar and Suramar, while the alliance only gained one, Kul'Tiras.

    The Horde is now the undisputed power in Kalimdor, while having 2 mega cities in the middle of the continents (Suramar city and Dazar'alor) to the Alliance's 1 (Kul'Tiras), heck Broken isles might as well be considered Horde dominated territory since they not only have Surmamar, but Thunder Totem as well, while the Alliance has no mega hub on that mini continent. The Horde still retains a full fledged kingdom in the EK with direct access to the ocean. Horde's civilian population is largely unharmed, while the Alliance lost nearly their entire Night Elf civilian population who are now reduced to refugees.

    Horde is in a much better place than the Alliance, which now has divided leadership and growing fissures in terms of their direction. This war was an unmitigated disaster for the Alliance, while the Horde, all things being equal, did very well.
    A pretty good example of how Anduins politics can lead to a bad situation.

    Anduin has made the Alliance sacrifice A LOT for nothing else but peace. No territory have been gained, no large group of allies have been made through the entire war and now he has spent most of his resourses on a battle with Sylvanas.

    We are pretty much hitting the point of Legion again, where the Horde and Alliance is so crippled by conflict, that they have to rely on the Heroes and their class halls to do the job for them.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  8. #128
    It is quite annoying that indeed the Alliance is not allowed any satisfaction after AGAIN kicking out a Horde-made Tyrannt so that the rest of the Horde can live happily ever after.
    This is one of the reasons why I think they need at least Alliance oversight for a while, so that MAYBE they do not follow the next genocidal tyrant that shouts "For the Horde!", history has shown that left alone they will eventually regress and the Alliance has to mop up again...

    Btw. I think the reason Alleria says that "Sylvanas has the only army able to defeat N'zoth" is not about the amount of troops she has. It`s that a lot of her followers are undead and thus immune to Old God corruption.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathreim View Post
    The Horde was never running out of troops. Thats what Genn said about the Alliance before the attack on the Zandalari.

    The reason why the Horde started to win is because Sylvanas dropped the entire Alliance fleet into the sea. Without that fleet the Alliance could no longer push the Horde as they had been doing after Rastakhan died.
    that cinematic. with all the hordeleaders gathered. be4 baine jumped ship. That sure sounded like they were beaten and on the run. without any troops.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alixie View Post
    Night Elf refugees in Stormwind offering to prostitute themselves to human men for survival.
    Those refugees wouldn't charge Humans anyway. Too much Potential™ to be had there lel

    As for the general subject of the thread, a triumphant world power's government is remarkably strengthened after a major successful war. It also exacts concessions, or outright war spoils from the beaten nation(s), often changes their political regime, and almost always significantly expands its military presence, compared to what it was like before the war. Lo and behold, exactly the opposite holds true for today's "Horde".

    Inb4 Anduin; him being a drooling moron doesn't change the fact that the "Horde" has de facto ceased to exist. There may be some lingering similarities, but it's like saying that the USSR and Russia in the 90s were the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    At some point you stop getting worked up over it, and just despondently shrug “Yeah, Blizz writing...”, consistency is waaaaay down the ol’ priority list for the writers.
    Argh! That's so bad! Theres no like mention of it or showcase of how just BOOM! Suddenly Sylvanas has tons of troops and the Alliances tons of troops have disappeared.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorqin View Post
    Horde is in a much better place than the Alliance, which now has divided leadership and growing fissures in terms of their direction. This war was an unmitigated disaster for the Alliance, while the Horde, all things being equal, did very well.
    Which is why there is more story potential for the Alliance now. That was the #1 complaint I have seen... well at least that was a legitimate complaint. Horde just made for a more interesting story because of the internal conflicts and such. Especially since they choose their leaders versus consanguinity which put Anduin on the throne.

    Now, with Tyrande going full on Psycho and Genn agreeing with her somewhat, they have some potential.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Eosia View Post
    Which is why there is more story potential for the Alliance now. That was the #1 complaint I have seen... well at least that was a legitimate complaint. Horde just made for a more interesting story because of the internal conflicts and such. Especially since they choose their leaders versus consanguinity which put Anduin on the throne.

    Now, with Tyrande going full on Psycho and Genn agreeing with her somewhat, they have some potential.
    That's what people always say. They had numerous opportunities to do so. Not only they don't want to do it, but they don't have the skill to write political intrigues, frictions inside the Alliance.
    "Warbringer" Jaina was a big flop. 15 years for nothing, she's back to her wc3 state like nothing happened.
    You can bet that Tyrande will never, ever, lay a finger on the Horde or defend her people.

  14. #134
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    Yeah and the fact they had the audacity to say Sylvanas lost in the "Reckoning" cinematic had me laughing my ass off, she literally didn't lose anything, she had almost overwhelming victory and she left the Horde better off then when she found it..its completely ridiculous that they are saying "you should hate her, be mad at her" because Saurfang betrayed HER...like they are even playing into my own doubt that I choose wrong following her as a loyalist because she seems to be the bad guy (which...if that's intentional good job),they even connected her actions to the Old Horde which again is ridiculous because they were purely bloodthirst and genocide and Sylvanas had the TOOLS and the POWER to do so much worse...but she didn't?

  15. #135
    BS it is the other way around. The most important point in war is the capital of the factions. Stormwind and Orgrimmar. The alliance army marched twice in Orgrimmar and got rid of their supreme leader twice. This is super defeat to the horde. Horde never walked in Stormwind.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by lummiuster View Post
    Horde never walked in Stormwind.
    We did once but that is so long ago that nobody remembers it anymore.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by tromage2 View Post
    We did once but that is so long ago that nobody remembers it anymore.
    I dont know about you, but I personally slaughtered all alliance leaders back in 2009, got the achievements and the black bear to prove it.

  18. #138
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    Well the Alliance has multiple means to obliterate the Horde easily but because the writers don't want that they don't use them. If you want to be truly honest a slightly larger army is nothing compared to space ships and the other advantages.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by raz98 View Post
    Argh! That's so bad! Theres no like mention of it or showcase of how just BOOM! Suddenly Sylvanas has tons of troops and the Alliances tons of troops have disappeared.
    Oh, i agree, it’s bad, pathetic, and completely out of left-field, it’s also something that we can’t really do anything about, hence the despondent shrug and getting back to killing the mobs the quest markers point out to me.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by eurojust View Post
    That's what people always say. They had numerous opportunities to do so. Not only they don't want to do it, but they don't have the skill to write political intrigues, frictions inside the Alliance.
    And Tyrande's current arc is what?


    Quote Originally Posted by eurojust View Post
    "Warbringer" Jaina was a big flop. 15 years for nothing, she's back to her wc3 state like nothing happened.
    Because she see that her attitude breeds the same sentiment that empowers leaders like Sylvanas. Not to mention Thrall speaks to her personally, apologizes, and accepts the part he played that turned Jaina that way. That is a pretty big deal.

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