California and PG&E

[Wyrt]

So, last fire season, northern California saw one of the worst wildfires ever. The cause was determined to be the fault of PG&E not properly maintaining their electrical lines. They got sued into the ground, declared bankruptcy, then tried to pay their CEO a big bonus before the courts told them no.

This fire season their response is to just cut power from homes during windy days:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/09/us/pg...day/index.html

Fortunately, in Sacramento we have publicly owned electricity(SMUD) so we don't have to deal with that utter bullshit. But much of the rest of northern California is having to go without power because PG&E decided it'd be cheaper to just cut power than to do proper maintenance of their electrical lines.

I think it's time PG&E was nationalized. Statealized? Whatever the state version of nationalized is. Utilities like this should not be private, for profit businesses.

[Theodarzna]

PG&E has cut a lot of power all over the north coast so Marin and Sonoma and Napa counties. It is uber frustrating, especially when not a bit of wind even happens.

I say have no mercy on PG&E or the people making these long strings of bad decisions.

[Xeones]

While I recognize there is probably no law requiring them to function, it's difficult for me to understand how they can just shut down power and literally let people potentially die because they don't want to do their jobs and are just retaliating against people for suing them.

Because maybe I just see the worst in people, but this feels like retaliation it's so unjustifiable to do what they are doing.

[Wyrt]

While I recognize there is probably no law requiring them to function, it's difficult for me to understand how they can just shut down power and literally let people potentially die because they don't want to do their jobs and are just retaliating against people for suing them.

Because maybe I just see the worst in people, but this feels like retaliation it's so unjustifiable to do what they are doing.

It is 100% retaliation since they got sued into the fucking ground and had to declare bankruptcy.

[kasuke06]

well let's weigh the options:

1: "do your job" and convert everything to underground or upgrade every single tower and line in the state, to the tune of billions of dollars spent and likely years of inconveniencing your paying customers as you do this, while you keep the power flowing and wildfires starting.

2: shut it down when it's windy. Inconvenience people for a few days, some may switch to/invite another company, which could total to a couple million dollars lost, in a few decades.

Now, as a person who has a basic level of math knowledge, I know which option is the smarter one. Maybe get some of those solar panels.

[Xeones]

well let's weigh the options:

1: "do your job" and convert everything to underground or upgrade every single tower and line in the state, to the tune of billions of dollars spent and likely years of inconveniencing your paying customers as you do this, while you keep the power flowing and wildfires starting.

2: shut it down when it's windy. Inconvenience people for a few days, some may switch to/invite another company, which could total to a couple million dollars lost, in a few decades.

Now, as a person who has a basic level of math knowledge, I know which option is the smarter one. Maybe get some of those solar panels.

Apparently I have too much faith in humanity. I wasn't expecting someone to defend this.

[kasuke06]

Apparently I have too much faith in humanity. I wasn't expecting someone to defend this.

Defend? I'm merely pointing out that it's not "magic finger snap" easy like some people seem to think.

[Xeones]

Defend? I'm merely pointing out that it's not "magic finger snap" easy like some people seem to think.

No one is saying it's a finger snap, they're saying it's their job and they are unwilling to do it but are willing to take absurd unjustifiable bonuses.

[kasuke06]

No one is saying it's a finger snap, they're saying it's their job and they are unwilling to do it but are willing to take absurd unjustifiable bonuses.

Then find a different company in the area. Failing that, get some solar panels, petition your council to look into calling in a different company to provide the level of infrastructure necessary as these contracts are usually at the city/state level. There are options you have, you don't have to rely on a naturally amoral entity(Note: A company's duty is to it's investors primarily, namely that of acquiring money. So long as it is not breaking the law, morality is only a factor as to the end of acquiring more money.) to do what your personally believe is morally correct.

[DarkTZeratul]

It's not just that they're shutting power down because they fucked up on maintenance, it's that their messaging about it was just absolutely, utterly, incomprehensibly BAD.

First of all, they just plain failed at basic public awareness. When the water company needs to shut off our water for an hour to do maintenance, they post notices on everyone's door a week in advance listing exactly when and for how long and with directions on what to do to prepare. I found out about PG&E's power shutdowns though fucking NextDoor and Facebook - and not because PG&E posted there, but because other people were spreading the word for them. Strike one.

Second, even after the word was out, they did a miserable job of providing consistent details. There was conflicting information about when power would be shut off, for how long power would be shut off, and even if it would actually be shut off at all until late afternoon the day before. Strike two.

Third, their own website was a complete and total clusterfuck and less than useless. It wasn't designed to handle the load of the entire Bay Area scrambling to check it at once to figure out what was happening so it crashed repeatedly, but even after it was back up its own internal links to maps of precisely what areas would be without power didn't work. I had to get that information second-hand from SF Chronicle's interactive map, and then hope that it was correct about me not losing power (thankfully, it was). Strike three.


One of my friends shared a great summation on Facebook, and I'm passing it along now:

PG&E: We'll be shutting off power to some of the Bay Area.
Us: Who will be affected?
PG&E: Lots of people.
Us: How long will the power be off?
PG&E: Maybe a day. Maybe five.
Us: Will my house specifically lose power?
PG&E: Maybe.
Us: When will the power be shut off?
PG&E: Maybe 4am. Maybe noon. Maybe not at all.

[callipygoustp]

Fucking Enron. Can never over state the damage that company did to California.

[Kaleredar]

well let's weigh the options:

1: "do your job" and convert everything to underground or upgrade every single tower and line in the state, to the tune of billions of dollars spent and likely years of inconveniencing your paying customers as you do this, while you keep the power flowing and wildfires starting.

2: shut it down when it's windy. Inconvenience people for a few days, some may switch to/invite another company, which could total to a couple million dollars lost, in a few decades.

Now, as a person who has a basic level of math knowledge, I know which option is the smarter one. Maybe get some of those solar panels.

Except you can’t account for every possible situation that might lead to downed power lines because they’re deciding to just let things be.

Unexpected wind storms can happen. Lightning can strike a pole. A rotten tree can fall. A bird can fly into a transformer.

So I see it like this: which costs more, properly servicing power lines and potentially putting them underground, or... paying to rebuild the next town that burns down to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, plus state penalties, plus replacing THOSE power lines lost in the fire, plus... you know, people being injured or dying?

They’re a public utility. Maybe they should bite the fucking bullet and do what’s good for the public.

- - - Updated - - -

Then find a different company in the area. Failing that, get some solar panels, petition your council to look into calling in a different company to provide the level of infrastructure necessary as these contracts are usually at the city/state level. There are options you have, you don't have to rely on a naturally amoral entity(Note: A company's duty is to it's investors primarily, namely that of acquiring money. So long as it is not breaking the law, morality is only a factor as to the end of acquiring more money.) to do what your personally believe is morally correct.

“Find a different provider?” Do you think there are just networks of private electric poles strung up everywhere like a Coffee Bean vs Starbucks kind of situation?

- - - Updated - - -

One of my friends shared a great summation on Facebook, and I'm passing it along now:

I liken it to this;

Cops: there’s an escaped criminal in your area.
People: oh my, that sounds bad. Are you going to look for him?
Cops: Nah, that’ll take too much time and effort. Just stay inside. He’ll probably wander off eventually.
People: Are you going to do anything about stopping criminals from escaping in the future?
Cops: well no, but... we’ll be sure to let you know when you have to stay inside again, sound good? Good. We’re all in agreement then! Whelp, toodles till next time.

[Flarelaine]

Apparently I have too much faith in humanity. I wasn't expecting someone to defend this.

I was and I am not even surprised to see who it was. You have also been around for some time, long enough to know your fellow posters.

[Xeones]

I was and I am not even surprised to see who it was. You have also been around for some time, long enough to know your fellow posters.

Yea but if they have the power off for 5 days for no reason there is a decent chance someone will die and have the death attributed to this.

[kasuke06]

“Find a different provider?” Do you think there are just networks of private electric poles strung up everywhere like a Coffee Bean vs Starbucks kind of situation?

Some places do have more than a single provider, and you did manage to deftly avoid actually reading the entire rest of what you quoted. So I'm pretty sure you're incapable of reading this because it's further than one sentence in. Purple monkey carwash, owl bungee.

[Xeones]

Some places do have more than a single provider, and you did manage to deftly avoid actually reading the entire rest of what you quoted. So I'm pretty sure you're incapable of reading this because it's further than one sentence in. Purple monkey carwash, owl bungee.

Some places have multiple power lines running? Not in any of the places I've lived and I've been in 4 states and at one point lived in a city in the list of top 10 larges cities in the nation.

[kasuke06]

Some places have multiple power lines running? Not in any of the places I've lived and I've been in 4 states and at one point lived in a city in the list of top 10 larges cities in the nation.

Did I say it was common? We have 3,300 companies. There is bound to be overlap, and where that happens, competition occurs. Pretty sure we'd have at least one interested in "doing their job" if it meant getting a large contract like a chunk of the state with the strongest economy.

[Flarelaine]

Yea but if they have the power off for 5 days for no reason there is a decent chance someone will die and have the death attributed to this.

Oh, I am not debating that part the least bit. It is fucking irresponsible. But there is a subset of posters who cheer on every news where (part of) California gets shafted.

[Kaleredar]

Some places do have more than a single provider,

Okay and where are “some” of these places?


You do know that electricity can’t just be beamed into your house, right? Even if you lived in “some of these places” you’d be out of luck if the other provider’s power pole wasn’t directly connectable to your house.

and you did manage to deftly avoid actually reading the entire rest of what you quoted. So I'm pretty sure you're incapable of reading this because it's further than one sentence in. Purple monkey carwash, owl bungee.

I did read the rest of your post; I responded to the most outlandish suggestion.

If you want a redress of the others:

Solar: solar is not cheap. Moreover, you have to have a specific setup to use power directly from solar panels, as most power is simply returned to the grid. And moreover moreover, that only works if you own your home. If you’re leasing or live in an apartment? That isn’t even remotely an option.

As for “petition for a change” or what have you, that could take years of city and bureaucratic work before seeing anything come of it.

So you’re basically saying: you, the private citizen, had best shell out big bucks and/or spend years of time and effort if you’re being inconvenienced, because apparently you are inherently both more capable of and culpable for doing so than the fucking public utility whose fucking job it is to maintain and update their fucking infrastructure. Because having them pay money or spend time to do so would just be silly.

Signed,
Kaleredar,
Currently sitting in the dark in Northern California

[Vanyali]

They're pissed they're being told they might have to disappear from California, after refusing to do basic maintenance on their lines because it'd cost money, and mad that they were held accountable for a massive disaster that has, one year later, not had anything fixed and has largely been forgotten by the outside world... and they're trying to flex with "well, see how it's like WITHOUT POWER HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA".

Which is hilariously funny because a lot of NorCal that they just shut off? "Get rid of public utilities, let them be private!" conservative hotspots. And also retirement city. People are pissed and have been pissed for about a week because as mentioned there's zero information on what's going on or off, who will be affected, when you'll be affected (we had people lose power at midnight, 4AM, and then apparently noon because fuck you fucker) while their site tells you the page to find if you're on the list doesn't exist or is unsafe and should be avoided. They're also calling people that don't even get power with them (they called my place of work... we're in Roseville, on Roseville electric) to tell us we'll lose power purely as a scare tactic.

Fuck PG&E, I hope they disappear as a company and the shareholders get buried in electric lines.