Class Changes in Visions of N’Zoth, Patch 8.3 Content Update Development Notes

[Drusin]

About time they nerfed boomkins

*sleeping Boomkin*

Hm? Nerfs?

*Scratches tusks while thinking*

Oh, the dots, hm

*Falls back asleep*

[Acolyyte]

As a shadowpriest main, this hurts me.

Same man. Shadow is in such a terrible fucking place right now. It is tuned exclusively around the very tippy top high end mythic raiding. The spec is utter dogshit in everything else. I've been playing shadow since vanilla and it is such a shitty spec now. I've spent countless hours duelling and running 2v2 arenas and i just get absolutely shit on in most situations. Every class has what seem to be unlimited interrupts and cc, i have to burn through my cooldowns in 20 seconds just to have any hope of staying alive. All our damage is hidden behind 30 seconds or so of hard casting.

Thank god for classic. I've been playing a shadow priest in classic and the spec feels correct. Immensely powerful while you still have mana. It's sad to see how far it has fallen. I'm swearing off retail until they bring in a major redesign to the spec.

In my opinion, they need to bring back the vampiric soul of shadow. Vamp touch and vamp embrace should function more like they used to. Current vamipiric embrace is fucking terrible imo. Get rid of voidform, or make it like combustion, a cooldown that makes our shadow spells instant cast or non interruptable. Bring back inner fire and shadow form's physical damage reduction.

The one place shadow does super well in retail is AOE....and now they're nerfing that. Awesome. Feels bad man. Right now, if you want to play a priest, classic is the way to go.

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Gotta love how their choice for SPriest nerfs is nerfing our already bottom 10 Single Target as well as the only mechanic that allows us to scale. Sounds smart, I guess we'll be joining Arcane Mages at the bottom!

Shadow priests need a massive redesign from the ground up. They need to bring back the classic soul of the class, with old school vamp embrace and baseline devo plague for everyone. Also, this bullshit of having no reason to ever shift out of shadowform is absolutely ridiculous. Give us back some fucking heals. Spriest is in such a terrible place at the moment that i'm playing classic exclusively until they redesign the class, or roll it back to something that doesn't get absolutely shit on in pvp and pve.

[Poundcake]

Thank god for classic. I've been playing a shadow priest in classic and the spec feels correct. Immensely powerful while you still have mana

Lol, what classic wow have you been playing?

[ElDoorO]

The fact that you think that Blizzard doesn't have developers for every class, shows you have no clue what you are talking about.

It's a very widely known thing they play certain classes and when a discussion comes up to nerf those classes there's significantly more opposition to.

If half your team is WAY better at a frost mage and play a mage way more often -- they are more likely to understand far better the impact of a request -- and defend the spec.

However if only one person reliably plays a shadow priest -- you now have most of the team running a train on this one person.

Do people not remember GC's post about this? Or has that much time already passed?

There's a reason WoD BrM'ers were messed up from the start... there's a reason Legion beta BrM's required a huge amount of very skilled people to hammer on a blue why they were wrong.

[Sensa1]

Because the guy that posts last would likely have put it up for a cheaper price in the current Market which would have lead to him being last in first out anyway.

yeah but it's just replacing one problem with another...used to undercut by a bronze and people that play the auction house cancel auctions (when its worth it to) and undercut by one bronze...same people will just cancel the auction and resubmit at same price to change their position in the sales queue...doesn't actually change or solve anything.

[Kaver]

Same man. Shadow is in such a terrible fucking place right now. It is tuned exclusively around the very tippy top high end mythic raiding. The spec is utter dogshit in everything else. I've been playing shadow since vanilla and it is such a shitty spec now. I've spent countless hours duelling and running 2v2 arenas and i just get absolutely shit on in most situations. Every class has what seem to be unlimited interrupts and cc, i have to burn through my cooldowns in 20 seconds just to have any hope of staying alive. All our damage is hidden behind 30 seconds or so of hard casting.

Thank god for classic. I've been playing a shadow priest in classic and the spec feels correct. Immensely powerful while you still have mana. It's sad to see how far it has fallen. I'm swearing off retail until they bring in a major redesign to the spec.

In my opinion, they need to bring back the vampiric soul of shadow. Vamp touch and vamp embrace should function more like they used to. Current vamipiric embrace is fucking terrible imo. Get rid of voidform, or make it like combustion, a cooldown that makes our shadow spells instant cast or non interruptable. Bring back inner fire and shadow form's physical damage reduction.

The one place shadow does super well in retail is AOE....and now they're nerfing that. Awesome. Feels bad man. Right now, if you want to play a priest, classic is the way to go.

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Shadow priests need a massive redesign from the ground up. They need to bring back the classic soul of the class, with old school vamp embrace and baseline devo plague for everyone. Also, this bullshit of having no reason to ever shift out of shadowform is absolutely ridiculous. Give us back some fucking heals. Spriest is in such a terrible place at the moment that i'm playing classic exclusively until they redesign the class, or roll it back to something that doesn't get absolutely shit on in pvp and pve.

If you think sp is bad now you’re in for a hard time.

L2P M8.

[skedwin]

Hey what about the forgotten class retri?

[Acolyyte]

If you think sp is bad now you’re in for a hard time.

L2P M8.

I've mained shadow since vanilla homie. SP is in a horrible spot. I've reached 2.3k in previous expansions. In BFA, there is literally nothing to do against a competent melee player and most casters absolutely eat your ass as shadow. Our toolkit is laughably ineffective and voidform is a gimped. In 1v1, most of the time i die before i even get my first voidform off. I'm 437 iLvl at the moment, mostly because I dropped this shitty expansion as soon as classic came out. Lvl 52 in classic right now and adoring shadow, as it is once again as it should be.

Lol...L2P.

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Lol, what classic wow have you been playing?

I'm confused by the question. The one that is currently live. Shadow in classic, if geared and played properly is nearly unstoppable in pvp (until you go oom) and really fun to play in pve. I've mained shadow since vanilla and i know the spec very well. If you can't faceroll as a spriest in classic, you're doing something wrong.

[Kaver]

I've mained shadow since vanilla homie. SP is in a horrible spot. I've reached 2.3k in previous expansions. In BFA, there is literally nothing to do against a competent melee player and most casters absolutely eat your ass as shadow. Our toolkit is laughably ineffective and voidform is a gimped. In 1v1, most of the time i die before i even get my first voidform off. I'm 437 iLvl at the moment, mostly because I dropped this shitty expansion as soon as classic came out. Lvl 52 in classic right now and adoring shadow, as it is once again as it should be.

Lol...L2P.

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I'm confused by the question. The one that is currently live. Shadow in classic, if geared and played properly is nearly unstoppable in pvp (until you go oom) and really fun to play in pve. I've mained shadow since vanilla and i know the spec very well. If you can't faceroll as a spriest in classic, you're doing something wrong.

SP is great. Blizzard shouldn’t balance the game around bad players.

L2P M8 and I R8 you 8/8.

[Acolyyte]

SP is great. Blizzard shouldn’t balance the game around bad players.

L2P M8 and I R8 you 8/8.

SP is objectively bad. I'm a good player. SP is so bad that it's dominant trait actually made a talent worse. SPs defensives make them completely unable to attack. They have no good crowd control. Their damage is gated, and even then weaker than a fire mage or boomkin. The only time SP is great is at the 1100 bracket and normal raiding.

Once you get to the point where you realize that you can't be truly competitive in Arena because of class flaws, it feels bad. I can't break 2.1k no matter the comps i'm running. And I'm a experienced spriest player. I've tried shadow rogue, shadow play with destro warlock, SP Disc, SP Fury, SP fire, SP rest druid, along with others im sure im forgetting. The L2P argument is trolly and doesn't apply.

My complaints mainly center around shadow being completely reliant on another class for pvp. Solo, we're terrible. I manage to be top 3 dps on raid nights but raiding is...eh. It doesn't matter. The true strength of a class is its pvp ability and spriest is in a terrible position right now.

[Mardux]

SP is objectively bad. I'm a good player. SP is so bad that it's dominant trait actually made a talent worse. SPs defensives make them completely unable to attack. They have no good crowd control. Their damage is gated, and even then weaker than a fire mage or boomkin. The only time SP is great is at the 1100 bracket and normal raiding.

Once you get to the point where you realize that you can't be truly competitive in Arena because of class flaws, it feels bad. I can't break 2.1k no matter the comps i'm running. And I'm a experienced spriest player. I've tried shadow rogue, shadow play with destro warlock, SP Disc, SP Fury, SP fire, SP rest druid, along with others im sure im forgetting. The L2P argument is trolly and doesn't apply.

My complaints mainly center around shadow being completely reliant on another class for pvp. Solo, we're terrible. I manage to be top 3 dps on raid nights but raiding is...eh. It doesn't matter. The true strength of a class is its pvp ability and spriest is in a terrible position right now.

And here is where you lose most, if not all, credibility. Your Inability to discerne opinion from fact and your seemingly constant need to reassure yourself and others that you’re a good player doesn’t help (sort of like the dude who has to make sure to tell people “I’m a nice guy” right before he tips his fedora).

I could say that in my opinion pvp is meh and it doesn’t matter. But that’s my opinion. I didn’t claim it as if it’s a fact, like you did. I realize it’s probably a foreign concept, but people can like things that you don’t and they can dislike things that you enjoy.

[Zaflis]

Demon hunters have always been ahead of balance druids in dps, yet they nerf us more. There aren't even many raid fights that have multiple targets, not even the queen azshara.

[Kaver]

SP is objectively bad. I'm a good player. SP is so bad that it's dominant trait actually made a talent worse. SPs defensives make them completely unable to attack. They have no good crowd control. Their damage is gated, and even then weaker than a fire mage or boomkin. The only time SP is great is at the 1100 bracket and normal raiding.

Once you get to the point where you realize that you can't be truly competitive in Arena because of class flaws, it feels bad. I can't break 2.1k no matter the comps i'm running. And I'm a experienced spriest player. I've tried shadow rogue, shadow play with destro warlock, SP Disc, SP Fury, SP fire, SP rest druid, along with others im sure im forgetting. The L2P argument is trolly and doesn't apply.

My complaints mainly center around shadow being completely reliant on another class for pvp. Solo, we're terrible. I manage to be top 3 dps on raid nights but raiding is...eh. It doesn't matter. The true strength of a class is its pvp ability and spriest is in a terrible position right now.

The solution for you is L2P.

Everybody knows that SP is great. If you can’t perform well you need to L2P.

[Mazzic518]

Classic AH is staying the same though right?

[darklogrus]

Boomkin nerf is kinda stupid, our weakest spells that basically needs 100% uptime on mobs that are basically up the entire fight to beat out random procc trinkets and azerite pieces. As for the Azerite trait buff, nobody has touched those 2 since they got nerfed early expansion. An the buff isnt going to change the fact its the worst producing azerite trait we have.

[qactuar]

Think the perception of nerfs and buffs depends on what's being talked about. Usually, people are only interested in how spec changes affect high-end performance, or how a spec as a whole performs in those situations. Unfortunately, only a small part of the game is played at the high end...and usually, these changes disproportionately affect everything else, which usually goes unnoticed or is met with indifference when it's brought up because there's this view that things like outdoor content and solo play don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Personally, I was stuck in a place where I was having fun with WoW but not with my Shadow Priest, if that even makes sense. To me, nerfs just mean it's going to be even worse for me in my solo play, where all of Shadow's weaknesses shine through even more than they do while raiding (like the lack of defenses) and it just bums me out.

[Viking]

And here is where you lose most, if not all, credibility. Your Inability to discerne opinion from fact and your seemingly constant need to reassure yourself and others that you’re a good player doesn’t help (sort of like the dude who has to make sure to tell people “I’m a nice guy” right before he tips his fedora).

I could say that in my opinion pvp is meh and it doesn’t matter. But that’s my opinion. I didn’t claim it as if it’s a fact, like you did. I realize it’s probably a foreign concept, but people can like things that you don’t and they can dislike things that you enjoy.

"but you can't prefer pvp and find raiding in irrelevant content to not "matter", even though it clearly doesn't at this point. Now excuse my earlier condescension, and when I passive aggressively called you a fedora wearing neckbeard/incel, even though I'm most likely projecting."

[OokOok]

what the hell. are they retarded ? They literally killed the Shadow Priest with this

and no this no exaggeration

OH NO! A class/spec that's been blatantly OP for the entire expansion got nerfed and brought down to a reasonable level OH MY GOD! the horror

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I don't even play druid and think that boomkin change is fucking weird. Moon/sunfire is the only thing that keeps druids viable for council fights and M+ and even then it's sub par compared to other dots, in PVP it can be removed constantly

[rips]

OH NO! A class/spec that's been blatantly OP for the entire expansion got nerfed and brought down to a reasonable level OH MY GOD! the horror

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I don't even play druid and think that boomkin change is fucking weird. Moon/sunfire is the only thing that keeps druids viable for council fights and M+ and even then it's sub par compared to other dots, in PVP it can be removed constantly

why do you even post if you dont understand the impact of those nerfs ?

[Biz]

Glad you're a Blizzard Developer and understand how Shadow works.

HINT: YOU'RE NOT!

Bold of you to imply Blizzard's passable understanding of the classes they design holds a candle to the ever analytical playerbase. keeping in mind this is the company who couldn't clear mere trash in MC back when it was relevant content and that was back in vanilla when things weren't so complicated.

Bold but incredibly misguided.