Sadly looking like Tinkers could become a reality.

[Supertoster]

I could see dwarves too. What I don’t see is a parallel on the horde side which is why I don’t have high hopes for dwarves to be tinkers.

Unless Vulpera and Mag’har are given Tinker to give Dwarves and DI Dwarves Tinker

All races should be able to be Tinkers. Because all races can learn Engineering. Ability to create and use bombs and gadgets is a knowledge based skill, not a talent based. So it could be learned from someone who already knows it. Just like Pandarens taught other races how to be monks - Gnomes and Goblins can teach other races how to be Tinker, especially with common use of Azerite as fuel.

[Katchii]

And who trains the Dark Rangers? Nathanos, one of our biggest enemies alongside Sylvanas.

I dont see how they suddenly would be like "Nah, fuck ya two, we're out, peace."

This time we dont have any important lore figure like Highlord Darion Mograine who betrays the Lich King by saving Uther with the Ashbringer.

The starting zone could be a time locked instance (just like with DK and DH) that happened during the war where all the training is happening and at the end of the starting zone the Mak'gora happens and everyone goes WTF?! and the Horde loyal races stick with the Horde and the Alliance races say they won't be sticking with Nathanos and Sylvanas and will return to the Alliance.

Doesn't need to be a hero to save the day it could be the individual that makes the decision themselves.

[Buliwyf the Omen]

The starting zone could be a time locked instance (just like with DK and DH) that happened during the war where all the training is happening and at the end of the starting zone the Mak'gora happens and everyone goes WTF?! and the Horde loyal races stick with the Horde and the Alliance races say they won't be sticking with Nathanos and Sylvanas and will return to the Alliance.

Doesn't need to be a hero to save the day it could be the individual that makes the decision themselves.

Absolutely nothing fishy about that.

[Golden Yak]

This. Wardens sound really boring TBH. Like, one of the most boring choices I've heard discussed so far, and that's saying something...

That said, I'd love to see warden armor/weapon available for other classes. More than just demon hunters should be able to use glaives.

I've seen a few good concepts that combine Wardens with WC3's Spellbreakers to create a kind've 'warrior/spellcaster/hunter' class, thematically like an elite warrior-mage that specializes in neutralizing singular powerful foes. I don't know how you could make a pure warden class work though, even across a few as two specializations.

One idea I had was making 'Warden' a 4th rogue spec, tying into rogues shadow magic elements, which I think could work.

But I think Tinker has more bones overall.

[Buliwyf the Omen]

I've seen a few good concepts that combine Wardens with WC3's Spellbreakers to create a kind've 'warrior/spellcaster/hunter' class, thematically like an elite warrior-mage that specializes in neutralizing singular powerful foes. I don't know how you could make a pure warden class work though, even across a few as two specializations.

One idea I had was making 'Warden' a 4th rogue spec, tying into rogues shadow magic elements, which I think could work.

But I think Tinker has more bones overall.

You are just absolutely
I think its either Tinker and/or Dark Ranger. Dragonsworn seems even less likely if Wrathion bites the dust in Nya'lotha. Warden feels odd, considering we havent seen even one male Warden yet.

[Katchii]

Absolutely nothing fishy about that.

Not really sure what point you're trying to make here.

The idea is plausible.

That said, the recently data mined interactions between Voss and Calia show Night Elf Dark Rangers coming to them for a place to belong saying that the Alliance has abandoned them somewhat contradicts this, but we'll have to see I guess.

I don't care one way or the other, I'm just open to the idea and trying to think of ideas where it could work/ how they would implement it if they chose to.

[Buliwyf the Omen]

Not really sure what point you're trying to make here.

The idea is plausible.

That said, the recently data mined interactions between Voss and Calia show Night Elf Dark Rangers coming to them for a place to belong saying that the Alliance has abandoned them somewhat contradicts this, but we'll have to see I guess.

I don't care one way or the other, I'm just open to the idea and trying to think of ideas where it could work/ how they would implement it if they chose to.

Wouldnt you feel odd that the elite soldiers of Sylvanas Windrunner suddenly come into the ranks of alliance and horde alike after she betrays the Horde?

[Golden Yak]

You are just absolutely https://i.redd.it/tru5x59x9gj31.jpg
I think its either Tinker and/or Dark Ranger. Dragonsworn seems even less likely if Wrathion bites the dust in Nya'lotha. Warden feels odd, considering we havent seen even one male Warden yet.

I think Dark Ranger would have the same issue as Warden with being a pretty limited concept. With Demon Hunters making 2-spec classes viable (even likely - less dev time) it might be possible.


Maybe there won't be new classes but 'class skins' that just change the appearance of spells to make your Hunter a 'Dark Ranger' themed hunter. Maybe every class can get a 'spooky' make-over if we go to the Shadowlands and get spooked too much next xpac.

[Buliwyf the Omen]

I think Dark Ranger would have the same issue as Warden with being a pretty limited concept. With Demon Hunters making 2-spec classes viable (even likely - less dev time) it might be possible.


Maybe there won't be new classes but 'class skins' that just change the appearance of spells to make your Hunter a 'Dark Ranger' themed hunter. Maybe every class can get a 'spooky' make-over if we go to the Shadowlands and get spooked too much next xpac.

I feel like they really wanted to make DH more than two specs but they had hard times with making Vengeance in the first place. And Vengeance unfortunately isnt doing so well right now either.

Yeah, but I think we get a completly new class AND class skins. Which would be cool.

[Katchii]

Wouldnt you feel odd that the elite soldiers of Sylvanas Windrunner suddenly come into the ranks of alliance and horde alike after she betrays the Horde?

Not necessarily.

Horde aligned races could still feel loyalty towards the Horde and join them after being completely disillusioned with Sylvanas and Nathanos while Alliance aligned races who felt loyalty toward Sylvanas and Nathanos feel betrayed by them and choose to align themselves with their original faction.

It's really not THAT far fetched, it seems strange now given what we know, but it could easily be spun that way if that's how they chose to do it.

The reasoning doesn't have to be hugely impactful or profound, just look and the Nightborne joining the Horde because Tyrande said mean things to Thalyssra (there's a bit more to it than that, I know, but that conversation was really the deciding factor).

[therealbowser]

What do you mean? Red part.

Uhm yea could be, but in this case.. No, i havr been lurking here for a long time and love class thread (back then)
Tinker was always the one where maybe 3 people liked it but most just wanted the classes that felt more wow/magic based if you will.
So no Hes right imo.

Tinkers have been requested and talked about since WoW began. The common (borderline-trolling, TBH) response people usually came up with is "lol, we have engineering". The thing is, if you make a thread about something you like, you will have 10 other people each with a unique idea of what they want. "omg, I want spellbreaker." "I really like dark rangers" "I wanna be a blademaster" "necromancers are life" "i awnt 2 b dragun lolz"

Thing is, a lot of people want tinkers consistently and it actually fills a gap the game is dramatically missing more than anything else--a technology based class. Just because people aren't arguing heavily for tinkers doesn't mean there is a lack of interest, it just means that they don't feel like telling someone else their idea is bad just so they can promote their own. Unfortunately, not everyone feels that way. I've lost interest in debating about classes but (obviously) I still partake from time to time.

Tinkers are the most heavily requested class right now. I'm pretty sure there have even been polls pointing that out directly. The only fear people have is that they will be exclusively gnome/goblin... which is ridiculous, so you can put that fear to rest.

[Kumorii]

Honestly, the people that say "pick up engineering if you want to be a tinker"...

... did you beautiful people suggest players that want to become monks to take off their weapons?

Seems like you are getting it
The entire point of that sentence and "suggestion" is to show how silly it is when Tinker fans say "Oh you want Class X? Go play Class Y then".
It's silly indeed to tell others to go play something else than what they want to play.

The common (borderline-trolling, TBH) response people usually came up with is "lol, we have engineering".

Most people I've seen throwing that line is doing so to show the absurdity in tinker fans own argument.

[Buliwyf the Omen]

Tinkers have been requested and talked about since WoW began. The common (borderline-trolling, TBH) response people usually came up with is "lol, we have engineering". The thing is, if you make a thread about something you like, you will have 10 other people each with a unique idea of what they want. "omg, I want spellbreaker." "I really like dark rangers" "I wanna be a blademaster" "necromancers are life" "i awnt 2 b dragun lolz"

Thing is, a lot of people want tinkers consistently and it actually fills a gap the game is dramatically missing more than anything else--a technology based class. Just because people aren't arguing heavily for tinkers doesn't mean there is a lack of interest, it just means that they don't feel like telling someone else their idea is bad just so they can promote their own. Unfortunately, not everyone feels that way. I've lost interest in debating about classes but (obviously) I still partake from time to time.

Tinkers are the most heavily requested class right now. I'm pretty sure there have even been polls pointing that out directly. The only fear people have is that they will be exclusively gnome/goblin... which is ridiculous, so you can put that fear to rest.

If I could vote for any lizard, it'd be you.

Seems like you are getting it
The entire point of that sentence and "suggestion" is to show how silly it is when Tinker fans say "Oh you want Class X? Go play Class Y then".
It's silly indeed to tell others to go play something else than what they want to play.

But dear Kumorii, we have a necromancer class if you're really up for a Necromancer in the way of Unholy (and overall DK back then), and we have a semi dark ranger in the form of MM but w/o Black Arrow.

In the Hunter Order Hall you could even get the the iconic Dark Ranger Hood after a little lovely questline involving a wannabe DR who is after some blood elf dark ranger lady. That and Black Arrow in Legion was a version of a DR.

We Tinkerboys have no option of such.

[therealbowser]

I've seen a few good concepts that combine Wardens with WC3's Spellbreakers to create a kind've 'warrior/spellcaster/hunter' class, thematically like an elite warrior-mage that specializes in neutralizing singular powerful foes. I don't know how you could make a pure warden class work though, even across a few as two specializations.

One idea I had was making 'Warden' a 4th rogue spec, tying into rogues shadow magic elements, which I think could work.

But I think Tinker has more bones overall.

Tinker has the potential for a fully fledged class where as a warden is basically a rogue in slightly heavier armor.

I mean, you can absolutely flesh one out into something more interesting than a barebones warden class (they did this--to some extent--with demon hunters) but they still would be fairly lacking. We don't need yet another generic melee (especially agility-based) class, especially after we just had demon hunters. I think wardens are one of the worst ideas people have come up with. Now if we want to talk about fourth specs, I could see wardens working for rogues and/or demon hunters. But that's a totally different story.

In general, I think we agree on most of this.

Of the classes people have suggested that have any potential at all of being interesting or playable, tinkers (by far the most), necromancers/blood mages, and *maybe* dark rangers feel like they have the most potential. That said, Blizzard could pull a "monk" and come up with new lore to support a brand new class, too, but of ones people are suggesting, very little has been genuinely interesting. I think it would be better to make the concepts people want to play available on other classes. A warden outfit for rogues and the ability to wield glaives--even without any special abilities--would do wonders for people that really like them.

Specifically, I feel like tinkers could heal (a chemical, science-based healing spec), ranged physical DPS (use a gun/bow/crossbow alongside various cast time missiles, pocket factories, etc.), or tank (mekgineer spec for life) and would use mail armor.

Necromancers would be exceptionally boring if they were generic scourge necromancers, but add more to it and it could quickly become interesting. Have a scourge-style necromancer summoning spec that instead of focusing on a permanent pet, focuses entirely on short term pets, have a "blood mage" spec that involves draining enemies and transferring life to players as its form of healing (it would likely feel quite a bit like discipline in playstyle), and a spellcasting specialization that focused on more ancient magic involving runes, bones, and perhaps frost. The last spec is more up to Blizzard's (or anyone who wants to conceptualize them) imagination.

Dark Rangers would be the least interesting of the three I mentioned, being that they are a purely ranged damage dealing spec and would feel a bit like hunters. They are passable in that, well, Sylvanas and Alleria are pretty popular and using old-god style void magic, the class could work in theory using dark magic-based attacks and not utilizing a pet. That said, while it's passable, I think it would need a lot of work and fleshing out 2-3 specs from a class like this would be hard. Furthermore, having a pure DPS class is really unhealthy for the game. This would be better applied as a fourth hunter spec or something IMHO.

Even a class like spellbreaker could have some variation in their playstyle that's significantly different from what we already have. Wardens just feel bland. I can't imagine a class concept for them that makes them stand out from rogues, aside from the fact they use spirit of vengeance or something. It's a cool power, but it isn't enough to define the class. What is cool, is their weapons and armor. They'd make a great fourth rogue spec, too.

[Kumorii]

But dear Kumorii, we have a necromancer class if you're really up for a Necromancer in the way of Unholy (and overall DK back then), and we have a semi dark ranger in the form of MM but w/o Black Arrow.

In the Hunter Order Hall you could even get the the iconic Dark Ranger Hood after a little lovely questline involving a wannabe DR who is after some blood elf dark ranger lady. That and Black Arrow in Legion was a version of a DR.

We Tinkerboys have no option of such.

And you don't get it... I swear to god, are all tinker fans as dense as a brick?
Go pick up engineering. done boom tinker.

If those would satisfy my class fantasy I would play them... they don't. stop telling me to play them. It's as retarded as me saying you should pick up engineering to satisfy your tinker needs...

[Buliwyf the Omen]

And you don't get it... I swear to god, are all tinker fans as dense as a brick?
Go pick up engineering. done boom tinker.

You dont understand it!

I know Necromancer is something else than a DK.

I know Dark Ranger is something else than a Hunter.

BUT!

If you're a fan of the overall necromancy theme, you have the option of (Unholy) DK since they offer necromancy as a whole spec.
If you're a fan of the overall elven ranger theme (which is included in Dark Ranger, but also with added necromancy) a (elf) MM Hunter is also pretty close to that, they even had Black Arrow before!

Engineering is a PROFESSION, the only class that offensively uses bombs as a class spell is Survival Hunter.

Why can Survival use bombs as a spell but its so wide and far-fetched that Tinkers can?

We have no Class or even Spec that utilizes Technology as a weapon. Why dont you understand that?

[therealbowser]

And you don't get it... I swear to god, are all tinker fans as dense as a brick?
Go pick up engineering. done boom tinker.

If those would satisfy my class fantasy I would play them... they don't. stop telling me to play them. It's as retarded as me saying you should pick up engineering to satisfy your tinker needs...

When engineering gives me a mekgineer spec, castable missiles, turrets, pocket factories, and alchemical healing powers then we'll talk.

Right now engineering is goggles and a couple of barely-practical gadgets and toys. I love engineering, but this is the oldest (and lamest) excuse to try and hold back a technology-based class in the very technology-rich lore of Warcraft there is.

"omg guys, you have enchanting, we don't need mages, just add a scroll that lets you use fireball, done boom mage"

Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? That's about the level of which this argument goes.

I get it, I really do. You really want a different class, but use actual arguments that support your choice instead of trying to blow up garbage like this please. Let's have something to discuss instead of what is basically "lol I hate tinkers".

[Kumorii]

You dont understand it!

I know Necromancer is something else than a DK.

I know Dark Ranger is something else than a Hunter.

I do understand it... You try to say that I have some ties to my class fantasy in other classes. I'm telling YOU they aren't fulfilling my class fantasy and YOU don't get to tell me that they are enough. Same as I don't get to tell YOU that engineering is enough for your tinker fantasy.

Ironically now that you admit that they are something else it makes that statement even more silly. You know they are different yet you say "go play them"... like what?

BUT!

If you're a fan of the overall necromancy theme, you have the option of (Unholy) DK since they offer necromancy as a whole spec.
If you're a fan of the overall elven ranger theme (which is included in Dark Ranger, but also with added necromancy) a (elf) MM Hunter is also pretty close to that, they even had Black Arrow before!

Engineering is a PROFESSION, the only class that offensively uses bombs as a class spell is Survival Hunter.

Why can Survival use bombs as a spell but its so wide and far-fetched that Tinkers can?

We have no Class or even Spec that utilizes Technology as a weapon. Why dont you understand that?

And what does this have to do with me? I want Dark Ranger...mainly due to how sylvanas plays in Hots. She is the pinnacle of dark rangers and thus that's the class fantasy I go with... neither hunter nor dk will satisfy that.

I understand completely that you guys want tinkers. I've said they make sense to be introduced. I've said they will fill a gap. I hope ALL of us get the classes we want in the end. Somehow it's very difficult for you guys to let people who want other classes want them, you instead try to impose and tell them what they should enjoy or what they should play...

It's not about who has what in which form, it's about the awful arrogance of being a straight up dick with the attitude "play this class it's enough for you because I say so".

- - - Updated - - -

"omg guys, you have enchanting, we don't need mages, just add a scroll that lets you use fireball, done boom mage"

Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

I get it, I really do. You really want a different class, but use actual arguments that support your choice instead of trying to blow up garbage like this please. Let's have something to discuss instead of what is basically "lol I hate tinkers".

Exactly, it sounds ridiculous doesn't it? Maybe the point is to show how ridiculous the argument is.
It's not MY argument, it's literally tinker fan arguments against any other class someone else prefers. I'm tossing it back, ironically all of you say how silly the argument is, but can't fathom it's yours when i spell it out for you with as simple as it gets comparisons.

Also, not once have I ever said I hate tinkers. I've said I would prefer other classes over it. If they introduce tinkers I will definitely play one. Stop being so defensive instantly as soon as you think someone attacks your class... which I don't even do. I'm attacking the retarded argument of "play X class if you want Y class".

[Triceron]

If you're a fan of the overall elven ranger theme (which is included in Dark Ranger, but also with added necromancy) a (elf) MM Hunter is also pretty close to that, they even had Black Arrow before!

This doesn't make sense at all.

Black arrow is gone. There is nothing Necromancy related left in the Hunter. How does this equate to playing as a Dark Ranger? Just because this class uses a bow?

I mean... that's even less than your Survival Hunter/Tinker comparison, considering Gnome Hunters even have Mechs as pets and Engineering provides plenty of explosives. You don't really have any Dark Ranger traits left in the Hunter.

[bloodmoth13]

Monks were a good add, but they should have been Pandaren only.

The other problem with Tinkers is that they'll suffer from the same problems druids do if they get a mech suit. There will just be a few base models to choose from and maybe you'll get a few color variations.

Do recall that it took them until Legion to really add more forms to druids.

I dont mind monks, but i hate their uniform aesthetic. I dont want tinkers to be the same thing either