Turkish troops launch offensive into northern Syria, says Erdogan

[breadisfunny]

If any US soldiers die, can congress declare war on Turkey despite Trumps desires?

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Yes the televangelists were taking Trump to task over this.

congress can vote on it but the president has to approve it. if i remember my politics correctly they have to have a majority to override a no. or maybe they can't i'm not 100% sure.

[d00mGuArD]

Nope.

Norway suspends arms sales to Turkey over Syria invasion

Norway was not selling weapons to Turkey anyway! Anyone can ban clients they don't have! It's like MMO-Champion making a statement "We ban Erdogan from wow-forums over Syria invasion"... Well guess what! He is not on these forums anyway!

It is a show move. Nobody goes against Turkey.
Turkey makes gains everywhere, people get angry. But nothing else happens. Anger will pass eventually and their gains will remain.

[Theodarzna]

It's almost like there's some middle ground between fighting a "forever war" and throwing wide open the gates for the Turks to commit genocide on US allies.

First, Turkey is that "US Ally" as in we added them to NATO.

Second, even the US government doesn't acknowledge for example the Armenian genocide; plus the Kurds had their own involvement in that genocide, as in helping the Turks. Whats more we don't mention the Assyrian genocide or purging of Christians from the region by either "ally".

Third, Until we recognize an actual Kurdish state, are we really "allies".

Finally, you can grab a gun and go fight if you feel so strongly about it.

[shimerra]

All the people advocating a forever war in Syria can grab a rifle and volunteer, you know the many militias take volunteers right?

Then by that standard with your comments on immigrants you can fuck off where you came from. Or at least patrol the border 24/7. Or learn Spanish to help translate and process the court backlog Trump worsened.

First, Turkey is that "US Ally" as in we added them to NATO.

Second, even the US government doesn't acknowledge for example the Armenian genocide; plus the Kurds had their own involvement in that genocide, as in helping the Turks. Whats more we don't mention the Assyrian genocide or purging of Christians from the region by either "ally".

Third, Until we recognize an actual Kurdish state, are we really "allies".

Finally, you can grab a gun and go fight if you feel so strongly about it.

First: So is Saudi Arabi, political alliances for strategic advantages doesn't mean individual Americans have to like oragree with it. Also does not prohibit us from strongly disagreeing with certain actions. Also Edrogan, the Islamic Trump, is a step worse than predecessors.

2nd A lack of acknowledgement has zero to do with whether it occurred or whether we should allow a new one to happen.

3rd: Yes. You should feel dumb for asking this question when the answer is painfully obvious.

Finally: Is, was, and always will be a stupid dumb fuck retort. I feel fires should be put out as a public service guess that means i should be a fireman! I think people shouldn't be denied medical treatment based on race! By your idiot logic I have to be a doctor. My my how will I have the time with my military training because I think national defense or helping international allies is a good idea!

[Skulltaker]

First, Turkey is that "US Ally" as in we added them to NATO.

Second, even the US government doesn't acknowledge for example the Armenian genocide; plus the Kurds had their own involvement in that genocide, as in helping the Turks. Whats more we don't mention the Assyrian genocide or purging of Christians from the region by either "ally".

Third, Until we recognize an actual Kurdish state, are we really "allies".

Finally, you can grab a gun and go fight if you feel so strongly about it.

The armenian genocide coined the term genocide. Just because the US doesn't acknowledge it doesn't change the fact that it was.

Edit: Where exactly did you read that the US doesn't acknowledge it, exactly? 49/50 states do. The one state not to is Mississipi, but the US gouvernment did ecknowledge it:

"The Genocide Convention resulted from the inhuman and barbarous practices which prevailed in certain countries prior to and during World War II, when entire religious, racial and national minority groups were threatened with and subjected to deliberate extermination. The practice of genocide has occurred throughout human history. The Roman persecution of the Christians, the Turkish massacres of Armenians, the extermination of millions of Jews and Poles by the Nazis are outstanding examples of the crime of genocide. (...)."

Excerpt from a letter from the US State department from 1951.

[Shadowferal]

Finally, you can grab a gun and go fight if you feel so strongly about it.

Pentagon is doing just that...

[Wyrt]

First, Turkey is that "US Ally" as in we added them to NATO.

Second, even the US government doesn't acknowledge for example the Armenian genocide; plus the Kurds had their own involvement in that genocide, as in helping the Turks. Whats more we don't mention the Assyrian genocide or purging of Christians from the region by either "ally".

Third, Until we recognize an actual Kurdish state, are we really "allies".

Finally, you can grab a gun and go fight if you feel so strongly about it.

Yes, Turkey is a US ally. Which means if US troops were still there then Turkey wouldn't be doing what they're doing. There wouldn't be a US-Turkey war. And it would stop the Turks from wiping out the Kurds without there being any need for fighting.

The only reason there's fighting right now is because Trump let Turkey do it.

[shimerra]

Yes, Turkey is a US ally. Which means if US troops were still there then Turkey wouldn't be doing what they're doing. There wouldn't be a US-Turkey war. And it would stop the Turks from wiping out the Kurds without there being any need for fighting.

The only reason there's fighting right now is because Trump let Turkey do it.

Begon with your sense logic. She cares not for your cost vs benefit analysis of a very small cost for a very large benefit when it comes to fighting the evil American war machine actually doing something good that also has positive benefit for American!

[Easo]

Gaidax, if you seriously think that EU does not have means to deal with Turkey then you are highly mistaken.
Its a block of 500+ million people. Turkey has 80. Economic power is incomparable, political pull in the world is incomparable.
The problem (?) is that we do not stoop down to Turkey's level and dont threaten to fling shit at neighbours. But anyone and everyone can be pissed off too much. Erdo is posturing so much because that is what populists do when their popularity falls. His party almost but realistically de facto lost local elections, he now has to wave arms around to appear mighty and play on the feelings of nationalism and blaming external "enemies" to not loose the control fully. Its classic as fuck.

So Turkey's just going to claim the Kurds are terrorists to justify their genocide it seems.

No no, they absolutely love the kurds, its those pesky milita which surely are all one and the same evil PKK (to be fair, PKK are terrorists. Anyone who blows up civilians to get their goals is a terrorist by definition), not many different groups. /s
If they could, they would invade northern Iraq to destroy Peshmerga.

I especially love the Turkey's attempt to show how great they were at fighting IS and trying to absolutely ignore and drown in lies the fact that kurds were the backbone of the fight and that Turkey was really, really late to the party.
Oh, yeah, and lets not forget how kurds dismantled fortifications and withdraw heavy weaponry near the Turkish border as per agreement. Totally terrorists and totally not a similar "safe zone", amirite, Erdosultan?

Kurds followed the agreement...

5 civilians are dead (including a 10-month-old baby) and +40 injured as a result of YPG bombing on Turkish towns. Sad news.

https://tr.euronews.com/2019/10/10/b...uklu-bir-bebek

Well, I wonder what happens when one side gets attacked and retaliates. And it is not like YPG has means to do precision bombing (and as we know, even that will bring civilian casualties sooner or later).

[Gaidax]

Gaidax, if you seriously think that EU does not have means to deal with Turkey then you are highly mistaken.

EU won't do shit and we all know it. They will close their eyes on this and at most will toss some empty words out and be done with it.

[Theodarzna]

Begon with your sense logic. She cares not for your cost vs benefit analysis of a very small cost for a very large benefit when it comes to fighting the evil American war machine actually doing something good that also has positive benefit for American!

If you believe the sacrifice in lives is so good, go grab a gun Shimerra and volunteer.

As for positive benefit? The only people who seem to be happy with a forever war in Syria are the Israeli's who would like to keep the Golan Heights. You'll have to explain what is in it for Americans to throw American lives to the meat grinder in a piece of land on another continent far away from the geography of the United States. I am not really seeing the reasons for war.

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Yes, Turkey is a US ally. Which means if US troops were still there then Turkey wouldn't be doing what they're doing. There wouldn't be a US-Turkey war. And it would stop the Turks from wiping out the Kurds without there being any need for fighting.

The only reason there's fighting right now is because Trump let Turkey do it.

Well it sounds like the country we should be invading is Turkey, not Syria since Turkey is the country causing all the problems. Istanbul is a bit north and west of Syria.

[Wyrt]

Well it sounds like the country we should be invading is Turkey, not Syria since Turkey is the country causing all the problems. Istanbul is a bit north and west of Syria.

Syria is where ISIS is and that's why we were there and why we were allied with the Kurds in fighting ISIS.

[Theodarzna]

Syria is where ISIS is and that's why we were there and why we were allied with the Kurds in fighting ISIS.

Well, ISIS is basically dead, was also the enemy of the Syrian government, and us not being invited into a country to quell an internal war might suggest we have no business being there. We were never asked to come to Syria by the authorities in Syria, and ISIS is essentially dead and the Syrian government and its allies seem to have finished that task.

If the concern now is Turks on a genocidal rampage, than the place to invade is Turkey.

[Deja Thoris]

All the people advocating a forever war in Syria can grab a rifle and volunteer, you know the many militias take volunteers right?

People aren't advocating a forever war. I imagine part of the problem is foreign policy by tweet and magic 8 ball.

Your posts in this topic are dumb as fuck, I was going to post something reasoned and logical but "lol ppl should be invading Turkey if they disagree" is the level of your discourse so its wasted effort.

[Gref]

EU should close their border with Turkey as well as impose harsh sanctions.

o'rly? o_O ? come thousands kilometers away, fuck up syria which doesn't share a cm of a border with you, then threaten turkey by closing borders and shit.
do you realize how much money turkey spend for those people? do you fucking realize they host fucking 4 million syrians? free health care, education, jobs and housing? fuck your bias. why did you come and mess with syria in the first place? dem petrol money must be sweet. same shit with iraq. next will be iran i guess. how long can turkey deal with all this shit? do you really think, if turkey falls, europe can handle the mess of this middle east? turkey is the last bastion for a safe europe.

if it was up to me, i would let all those 4 million already. they want to go to europe sure let them go. sanctions my ass.

[Breccia]

Hundreds reported dead.

Well, has Turkey crossed the line yet, Trump?

going to possibly do something very, very tough with respect to sanctions and other financial things

Oh good, we're still with "possibly". And, yes, "other financial things". That's the leadership we've all come to expect! You show Turkey who wears the bone spurs around here! Anything else?

A senior State Department official said that President Trump had tasked the department with “trying to see if there are areas of commonality between the two sides, if there’s a way that we could find our way to a ceasefire.”

“Right now, that’s the work that we’re doing, but I can’t describe in any more detail,” the official told reporters on a conference call today.
The official said that since Trump's call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Sunday, there had been “various diplomatic exchanges that President Erdogan has in various ways been involved on.” Two officials confirmed on Wednesday that US Ambassador to Turkey David Satterfield attended a meeting at the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs that morning.

The senior State Department official Trump is “trying to find common ground to come up with a ceasefire, come up with a way to bridge the gap between the [Kurdish People's Protection Units] wing of the [Turkish Kurdistan Workers Party] and Turkey.” He said the President would “most prefer” to do “a negotiated settlement.”

The official said there had been no conversations between the US and the Syrian government on the Turkish military operation.

Thanks, real news CNN. You're really stepping up since FOX News was called Fake.

Also, Trump tweeted because of course he did:

We have one of three choices: Send in thousands of troops and win Militarily, hit Turkey very hard Financially and with Sanctions, or mediate a deal between Turkey and the Kurds!

The call was, what, Sunday? It's Thursday and Trump's admitting he might have to send in thousands of troops.

(giant troll face)

But I thought we Endless Wars were baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad!

Wow. Trump's threats are doing absolutely nothing and he's outsourced mediation to the State Department. Because yeah, Pompeo's not busy blocking subpoenas or anything.

[Wyrt]

o'rly? o_O ? come thousands kilometers away, fuck up syria which doesn't share a cm of a border with you, then threaten turkey by closing borders and shit.
do you realize how much money turkey spend for those people? do you fucking realize they host fucking 4 million syrians? free health care, education, jobs and housing? fuck your bias. why did you come and mess with syria in the first place? dem petrol money must be sweet. same shit with iraq. next will be iran i guess. how long can turkey deal with all this shit? do you really think, if turkey falls, europe can handle the mess of this middle east? turkey is the last bastion for a safe europe.

if it was up to me, i would let all those 4 million already. they want to go to europe sure let them go. sanctions my ass.

Yeah, sanctions. Because slaughtering the Kurds is wrong.

[Thirza]

Bernie bros and trumpists cheering kurds being raped and massacred, color me shocked.

You people are deplorable.

[JohnBrown1917]

Bernie bros and trumpists cheering kurds being raped and massacred, color me shocked.

You people are deplorable.

lol where the fuck are you getting that bullshit from.

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So the grapevine in Greece is that this is not at all about Kurds being a threat. The plan is for Turkey to grab that safezone and then try and extort money from the EU that they can pump in their own construction companies to build camps for the refugees and just move them across the border. Turkey's economy is in dire straits and has always been construction heavy. Killing some Kurds is probably just an added bonus for the Turks.

We are also not at all amused that essentially Turkey is now militarily contesting the Treaty of Lausanne which they have threatened numerous times when it comes to our borders.

Its also about Turkey's favourite pastime, commiting genocide.

[downnola]

If you believe the sacrifice in lives is so good, go grab a gun Shimerra and volunteer.

You really love this argument whenever there's an push to stop genocide, but that's not how it works in a democracy. Furthermore, this isn't a choice between intervention in a foreign war or peace. It's a choice between protecting our allies in the war against ISIS or allowing Turkey to commit another genocide.