WoW NPCs conflicts that can bring more war on breaking the cycle

[Shakana]

Talanji - Revenge for her father: Against Sylvanas to make them attack Dazar'alor. Against Jaina for killing her father.
Tyrande - Still avenging Kaldorei, she can plan her revenge for years, but it will come.
Undead - Many won't welcome Calia, knowing her brother was what made them what they are.

Citizens of the Horde can be a bit as well against alliance putting their feet at Orgrimmar, and only respecting it because Saurfang died.
Maybe alliance and horde will never be peaceful, things happened and can't be changed anymore. With or Sylvanas out, she made damage. And some damage was there already from old battles too. Forcing a unification might not be the best thing to do. Would make more sense if factions went a bit more friendly but recognizing that they have too much differences to be united. Even if i can see a more peaceful horde, i can't see the horde being a second alliance. We have legacies of horde that shows we cannot be united, but rather have empathy for other faction and friendly, but never be as one.

With Tyrande, the lost way of the Undead and Talanji, i think we won't still be in the best terms, to have a unification of factions.
Also even tho i like Tyrande in some way this expansion, i have always been bored with her and how she refused to accept the Sheldorei (Nightborne).

I believe, the person/NPC in game i have the most damn respect is still Liadrin.
She is easily the best NPC currently, she is a great character. She has been the most neutral, helpful character since Legion til bfa, always working through her ways and the best she can to solve situations without making more problems.

[TickTickTick]

TUndead - Many won't welcome Calia, knowing her brother was what made them what they are.

There aren't that many old generation Forsaken. Most of them are raised by Sylvanas and her Val'kyr.

[gd8]

(spoilers)





in the upcoming patch there's dialogue from tyrande and genn not respecting/accepting the end of the war so there's definitely still gonna be tension from some of these characters

[Nathasil]

Also even tho i like Tyrande in some way this expansion, i have always been bored with her and how she refused to accept the Queldorei (Nightborne).

Tyrande did not "refuse to accept" them. All she did was being honest about what the Shaldorei did 10k years ago and that they would have never changed their way if Guldan would not have forced them. Liadrin on the other hand blatantly LIED into their faces to make herself look better. Call me biased, but i think a lying Paladin is much worse than a Priest telling somebody the truth to his/her face.

OT:
No idea where Talanji could go. There is a lot of potential for Drama with her, especially if she allows Bwonsamdi to push her onto a darker path. Right now, her primary concern seems to be Bwonsamdi, which is reasonable, as the Loa of Death is not a good Loa of Kings if you intend to build a future for a living Kingdom, as Bwonsamdi himself pointed out towards Rastakhan.

Tyrande hates the Horde, but is definetly not planning anything against them. She outright says she is willing to accept the truce as soon as Sylvanas is dead. So obviously she has no intentions attacking the Horde. Genn seems to not give a rat's ass about anybody in the Horde as well and is only interested in Sylvanas.

Undead. Looking back a Cataclysm, Sylvanas murdered and raised hundreds, if not thousands, into undead slavery. All of those countless Forsaken were then conviniently forgotten and never mentioned again. It would be interesting to know what they do right now. Are they finally free? Are they supposed to be those who followed Sylvanas to (presumably) Northrend? After Sylvanas has basically been the active Lich-Queen since Cataclysm, i cannot imagine a lot of Undead speaking up against Calia because of Arthas. Those who had a problem with the Scourge would have left the Forsaken ~10 years ago.

[Kyphael]

(spoilers)





in the upcoming patch there's dialogue from tyrande and genn not respecting/accepting the end of the war so there's definitely still gonna be tension from some of these characters

As they should be, not every leader on both sides needs to be on the same page and in agreement with the truce. Conflict makes stories. Of course, it doesn't need to be the ridiculous level of cartoon villainy caricature they reduced Sylvanas to, but racial leaders disagreeing and some stepping out of line to engage in scuffles with opposite faction races keeps the soul of Warcraft alive without trivializing what could be faction conflict into a ridiculous war over McGuffins, doohickeys and doodads.

[Dinduffen]

Undead. Looking back a Cataclysm, Sylvanas murdered and raised hundreds, if not thousands, into undead slavery. All of those countless Forsaken were then conviniently forgotten and never mentioned again. It would be interesting to know what they do right now. Are they finally free? Are they supposed to be those who followed Sylvanas to (presumably) Northrend? After Sylvanas has basically been the active Lich-Queen since Cataclysm, i cannot imagine a lot of Undead speaking up against Calia because of Arthas. Those who had a problem with the Scourge would have left the Forsaken ~10 years ago.

lol what do you mean slavery? might want to look at voss

[Varitok]

[/spoiler]

As they should be, not every leader on both sides needs to be on the same page and in agreement with the truce. Conflict makes stories. Of course, it doesn't need to be the ridiculous level of cartoon villainy caricature they reduced Sylvanas to, but racial leaders disagreeing and some stepping out of line to engage in scuffles with opposite faction races keeps the soul of Warcraft alive without trivializing what could be faction conflict into a ridiculous war over McGuffins, doohickeys and doodads.

Sylvanas has been that evil since Wrath. People just choose to ignore it. The faction story is fucking tired, constantly fighting each other to fight a big bad. Warcraft is defined by it's raids and big bad. Orc V Human is iconic but far from what makes people play. BG's will still exist, Arena's will still exist and so will world PvP. Faction conflict has literally been a back burner thing since we started fighting over sand in a desert.

[Varodoc]

Sylvanas has been that evil since Wrath. People just choose to ignore it. The faction story is fucking tired, constantly fighting each other to fight a big bad. Warcraft is defined by it's raids and big bad. Orc V Human is iconic but far from what makes people play. BG's will still exist, Arena's will still exist and so will world PvP. Faction conflict has literally been a back burner thing since we started fighting over sand in a desert.

Since before Wrath. She's been a conniving and manipulative bitch since Warcraft III. Even her alliance with the Horde was of mere convenience and she was only using them to further her dark goals. In Classic she was already conducting experiments on the living, some of which involved literal mind-control (see the NPC Theresa)-

[Eggroll]

TI believe, the person/NPC in game i have the most damn respect is still Liadrin.
She is easily the best NPC currently, she is a great character. She has been the most neutral, helpful character since Legion til bfa, always working through her ways and the best she can to solve situations without making more problems.

Wut? Liadrin took part in the massacre in Brennandan, afaik. And she was very happy to do so. Killing even healers.

And where in God's name is Velen. Did he fall in some sort of winter's nap after Legion?

[Darknessvamp]

Talanji is definitely one who sticks out, having already been kept captive by the Alliance for no reason and had her home City attacked and her father killed by the same people there is no justifiable way they can make her just up and stomach the unification without some major bs or drastic development like she goes into a coma cause N'zoth.

Tyrande is a Night Elf so she's likely to beaten like the dead horses they have been this expansion and end up not getting anything worthwhile until she inevitably becomes a raid boss which Malf will cry over.

The Forsaken are joining the Night Elves in the same boat so I doubt they'll have any upheaval as well.

Honestly I think the actual citizens of the Alliance should have been the ones with the most backlash to the unification for all the grudges they've had with the Horde for years and should rightfully be furious with their Gold King Emperor, Anduin.

[Eggroll]

Honestly I think the actual citizens of the Alliance should have been the ones with the most backlash to the unification for all the grudges they've had with the Horde for years and should rightfully be furious with their Gold King Emperor, Anduin.

Well, alot of the "players" see it that way But then they are dubbed "irrational"

[Shakana]

Tyrande did not "refuse to accept" them. All she did was being honest about what the Shaldorei did 10k years ago and that they would have never changed their way if Guldan would not have forced them. Liadrin on the other hand blatantly LIED into their faces to make herself look better. Call me biased, but i think a lying Paladin is much worse than a Priest telling somebody the truth to his/her face.

OT:
No idea where Talanji could go. There is a lot of potential for Drama with her, especially if she allows Bwonsamdi to push her onto a darker path. Right now, her primary concern seems to be Bwonsamdi, which is reasonable, as the Loa of Death is not a good Loa of Kings if you intend to build a future for a living Kingdom, as Bwonsamdi himself pointed out towards Rastakhan.

Tyrande hates the Horde, but is definetly not planning anything against them. She outright says she is willing to accept the truce as soon as Sylvanas is dead. So obviously she has no intentions attacking the Horde. Genn seems to not give a rat's ass about anybody in the Horde as well and is only interested in Sylvanas.

Undead. Looking back a Cataclysm, Sylvanas murdered and raised hundreds, if not thousands, into undead slavery. All of those countless Forsaken were then conviniently forgotten and never mentioned again. It would be interesting to know what they do right now. Are they finally free? Are they supposed to be those who followed Sylvanas to (presumably) Northrend? After Sylvanas has basically been the active Lich-Queen since Cataclysm, i cannot imagine a lot of Undead speaking up against Calia because of Arthas. Those who had a problem with the Scourge would have left the Forsaken ~10 years ago.

All those things can make some disturbance on the "let's break the cycle", while some are looking forward for this, others have hold some grudges that we don't know if they can keep it to themselves. And this might be someday a problem. Ofc Sylvanas has turned so much undeads and they followed her ever since, but what i mean is that what they are, is still because of the Lich king/Arthas. And Menethil name will never be cleaned up so easily because of that. And even the undead that follow Sylvanas they know perfectly she hated Arthas and searched for revenge as well. So whatever the amount of Lordaeron original forsaken is or the raised forsaken by Sylvanas, all the suffering they have won't just go with some words of Arthas's sister of hope. I see Sylvanas like an abusive mother, she messes with the forsaken how she pleases and usually with the argument that she is the only one that understands them and loves them, when there's Baine that always had empathy for the forsaken.

About tyrande attacking the horde, i read something that is the opposite of that with Anduin. Anduin is talking about peace and she says they too need to pay, like they were there too. Wasn't just the Sylvanas, even tho she was the one making brainwash.

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Talanji is definitely one who sticks out, having already been kept captive by the Alliance for no reason and had her home City attacked and her father killed by the same people there is no justifiable way they can make her just up and stomach the unification without some major bs or drastic development like she goes into a coma cause N'zoth.
.

Ye, we even started the expansion by going stormwind and freeing her at Stormwind. She doesn't think well about the alliance at all.

[Kyphael]

Sylvanas has been that evil since Wrath. People just choose to ignore it. The faction story is fucking tired, constantly fighting each other to fight a big bad. Warcraft is defined by it's raids and big bad. Orc V Human is iconic but far from what makes people play. BG's will still exist, Arena's will still exist and so will world PvP. Faction conflict has literally been a back burner thing since we started fighting over sand in a desert.

I agree, big bad is what made Warcraft huge (Legion and Scourge in Warcraft II and III.) The faction conflict is best suited in sub-plots and patch content like Isle of Thunder or Trial of the Crusader.

[Super Dickmann]

I agree, big bad is what made Warcraft huge (Legion and Scourge in Warcraft II and III.) The faction conflict is best suited in sub-plots and patch content like Isle of Thunder or Trial of the Crusader.

The Legion and Scourge didn't exist in WC2. It was Ally v. Horde and occasionally one part of either vs another. That aside...Comparing to the Scourge to the WoW big bads is poor because the Scourge were a playable faction. You were the one who steered Arthas into becoming a bad dude and then followed him on his journey as a protagonist to do bad things. That's why Arthas has among the biggest investment out of any WoW villain - because were in his shoes and because he was the lead in a video game, he was allowed to win. That's a luxury that no bad guy in the MMO-era has had, since they are killed by the format. They consequently end up a lot less memorable. The faction war is good because the factions are the objects of investment. The playable groups are the actors, everything else is an object.

That said I won't disagree that the faction war is best when it's between individual races in stakes were any side can win and the story can still go on.

On-topic: All you have to do to reenable faction conflict is to remove the amnesia of the population. The Horde canonically backed war up until 8.2.5 and only changed its mind because Sylvanas was rude to them, not out of fundamental disagreement with the position she claimed to have, but actually didn't. But since the population are not a driver of conflict, then the best ones to use are Geya'rah - as an orc with a classic aggressive mentality, Talanji - as tangentially tied to the Horde in the first place, with zero involvement in atrocities but recent grievances on the red side. On the Blue side you have Tyrande and Genn, both amply motivated by things the Horde have done to them, as well as Kul Tiras, who unlike Jaina, lack the personal and familial reasons for rejecting Daelin's worldview. They mostly do so for the same reason the Horde rejects Sylvanas's pitch, i.e that it's convenient to the present narrative course.

[Terongor]

I agree, big bad is what made Warcraft huge (Legion and Scourge in Warcraft II and III.) The faction conflict is best suited in sub-plots and patch content like Isle of Thunder or Trial of the Crusader.

Ugh what? Have you played warcraft 2 name a mission were they ever say Burning legion and during warcraft only the tomb of sargeras mission have demons and its under 5 of then in both missions..... warcraft 2 was always horde v alliance warcraft 2 manual had little bit stuff about legion and KJ but they an mystery...... warcraft 1 had alot demon stuff so you could made your case with that well little bit as orc warlocks could sunmon bs op demons.

[chrisisvacant]

There aren't that many old generation Forsaken. Most of them are raised by Sylvanas and her Val'kyr.

Source for this?

[TickTickTick]

Source for this?

The source is general logic.
It's been maaany years since LK stopped raising the undead in Lordaeron. IDK if he stopped it when he left to Icecrown, or if he was still able to do it from there, even then he surely stopped when he died.

We've had Cata (especially Silverpine), Legion invasion, 4th war... Each race lost many troops during that time, forsaken included. Sylvanas herself says it to Garrosh when she tries to excuse her raising: if she cant do it, forsaken will soon die out. And while LK Forsaken numbers go down fight after fight, the Sylvanas raised ones are endlessly supplied by the valkyr (or were until some point).

[Wyrt]

And where in God's name is Velen. Did he fall in some sort of winter's nap after Legion?

He got like 1 line in the pre-expansion short stories to say that the draenei's military was basically fucked after the whole fighting the Legion on Argus with no help from their allies thing.

[Trekkie]

so more war = breaking the cycle?

[Eggroll]

He got like 1 line in the pre-expansion short stories to say that the draenei's military was basically fucked after the whole fighting the Legion on Argus with no help from their allies thing.

No help from their allies? I thought the Army of the Light was there, too? And Illidan - meaning the Illidari? Why is everyone always "alone" in this so called "Alliance"?