Sadly looking like Tinkers could become a reality.

[blankfaced]

Agreed. I honestly hate the idea of tinkers being a class. Just not my style.

I felt the same way about Demon Hunters. You win some you lose some.

[TigTone]

I hope the next class is tinker. Just to see Teriz reaction.

Also because I as much as would I like a necromancer I don’t thing I could ever main as not a healer.

So a tinker would work better for me as it could easily have a heal spec.

[Teriz]

How did those hint at new classes?

Does this mean Nathanos Blightcaller having Shadow Shot hints at Dark Rangers then?

Shadowshot isn't a Dark Ranger ability from WC3 or HotS.

[Ielenia]

True, but Blizzard has purposely put up lore barriers that make Sylvanas producing half Banshee Dark Rangers and a DR class highly unlikely.

And those so-called "lore reasons" are...? I'm honestly asking, because I see no barrier at all, when we look at past precedents set by Blizzard themselves.

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I hope the next class is tinker. Just to see Teriz reaction.

Also because I as much as would I like a necromancer I don’t thing I could ever main as not a healer.

So a tinker would work better for me as it could easily have a heal spec.

Well, a necromancer could technically have a healing spec based on blood magic. I made a brief concept of it, enough to demonstrate how my class idea would play out. It's in my sig, if you want to check it out.

[Buliwyf the Omen]

I hope the next class is tinker. Just to see Teriz reaction.

Also because I as much as would I like a necromancer I don’t thing I could ever main as not a healer.

So a tinker would work better for me as it could easily have a heal spec.

He would probably pass out.

And those so-called "lore reasons" are...? I'm honestly asking, because I see no barrier at all, when we look at past precedents set by Blizzard themselves.

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Well, a necromancer could technically have a healing spec based on blood magic. I made a brief concept of it, enough to demonstrate how my class idea would play out. It's in my sig, if you want to check it out.

I know you really want Necromancers but sorry dude, I just dont see it being likely.

[Teriz]

And those so-called "lore reasons" are...? I'm honestly asking, because I see no barrier at all, when we look at past precedents set by Blizzard themselves.

1. Sylvanas has never produced a DR with Banshee powers.

2.There are no Dark Rangers on the Alliance.

3. Sylvanas has left the horde, seemingly abandoning her current Dark Rangers, particularly the new Night Elf ones.

Beyond that, the current expansion revolves around Sylvanas, she's even on the cover. Its doubtful we're going to have another expansion revolving around her. If I was a betting man, I'd bet that she won't be a part of the next expansion in any meaningful way.

[Sevarin]

If he has HotS Tinker abilities in WoW, and is a Tinker hero in HotS, and we know that Blizzard has placed HotS abilities in classes before, does it matter if he isn't being called a Tinker in WoW yet?

Also there is Gelbin Mekkatorque.

he also is not known as a tinker in https://heroesofthestorm.gamepedia.com/Gazlowe so that doesnt work.

gelbin mekkatorque was who i was originally referring to, with you know, the high tinker title and everything. but the person i quoted decided to say mounted combat (which mekkatorque applies essentially.... all the time) was stupid, and brought up gazlowe instead.


also... "The powered armor used by him in the game greatly resembles the Tinker hero unit from Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne and the artwork for the epic tinker in the non-canon Warcraft RPG. His Chief Engineer skin incorporates elements from Gallywix's unused shredder concept art." doesnt mean he has tinker abilities in hots. it means his armor looked similar to a tinker unit in a completely different game. which again, would bring back what is essentially mounted combat that i got ridiculed for, since every mech thus far has been a mount, in one form or another.

[Triceron]

Shadowshot isn't a Dark Ranger ability from WC3 or HotS.

You're right.

It's a Dark Ranger ability from WoW, since Nathanos is a Dark Ranger.

[Teriz]

he also is not known as a tinker in https://heroesofthestorm.gamepedia.com/Gazlowe so that doesnt work.

It refers to him as a Tinker literally in the first paragraph on that page....

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You're right.

It's a Dark Ranger ability from WoW, since Nathanos is a Dark Ranger.

Not really. Shadow Hunters use it too.

[Ielenia]

I know you really want Necromancers but sorry dude, I just dont see it being likely.

All good. We all have our opinions. People also didn't see demon hunters being likely, while also claiming a slew of other class ideas were more likely, but look where we are, today.

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1. Sylvanas has never produced a DR with Banshee powers.

Death knights produced by Arthas did not have frost or blood powers, prior to their introduction as a playable class.

2.There are no Dark Rangers on the Alliance.

Please name the demon hunters and death knights and monks that existed in the Horde and Alliance before their respective introductions as playable classes.

3. Sylvanas has left the horde,

Didn't stop Arthas.

seemingly abandoning her current Dark Rangers, particularly the new Night Elf ones.

"Seemingly"? I don't think she ever needed the Horde to raise new dark rangers, so I don't see any reason why she'd stop now. If anything, she has all the more reason to raise more, considering she no longer has the Horde to be her army.

Beyond that, the current expansion revolves around Sylvanas, she's even on the cover. Its doubtful we're going to have another expansion revolving around her. If I was a betting man, I'd bet that she won't be a part of the next expansion in any meaningful way.

Gul'dan was key in two expansions, back to back.

[Teriz]

Death knights produced by Arthas did not have frost or blood powers, prior to their introduction as a playable class.

Yet they had necromantic powers. Frost and Blood are within the realm of Necromantic powers.

Please name the demon hunters and death knights and monks that existed in the Horde and Alliance before their respective introductions as playable classes.

Fair point.

"Seemingly"? I don't think she ever needed the Horde to raise new dark rangers, so I don't see any reason why she'd stop now. If anything, she has all the more reason to raise more, considering she no longer has the Horde to be her army.

Not with both the alliance and horde hunting her.

Gul'dan was key in two expansions, back to back.

Gul'Dan never appeared on the cover of either WoD or Legion. Additionally, while he was a driving force, he was never the main character. Finally, the class that appeared in Legion wasn't based on him.

[Buliwyf the Omen]

All good. We all have our opinions. People also didn't see demon hunters being likely, while also claiming a slew of other class ideas were more likely, but look where we are, today.

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Death knights produced by Arthas did not have frost or blood powers, prior to their introduction as a playable class.


Please name the demon hunters and death knights and monks that existed in the Horde and Alliance before their respective introductions as playable classes.


Didn't stop Arthas.


"Seemingly"? I don't think she ever needed the Horde to raise new dark rangers, so I don't see any reason why she'd stop now. If anything, she has all the more reason to raise more, considering she no longer has the Horde to be her army.


Gul'dan was key in two expansions, back to back.

I dont think you can compare the two.
I have yet to see a person thats like "I wish I was like Heigan!"
But you can imagine how many always wanted to be like Illidan.
DH also was one if not the most demanded class for god knows how long.

Also, Lock had only Meta overlapping with DHs.
Whole DK overlaps with Necromancers, considering DKs are their improved version.
You cant compare one shared spell with a whole class almost being a 1:1 copy of an existant class.

I highly doubt they pull off yet another dark hero class with yet another death theme, especially when we have far more interesting classes in the open that would offer things we cannot experience yet.
A ranged cloth DK isnt exactly what I call unique, interesting or what the Game truly needs.

We need more class diversity, more class and less spec focusing.
That isnt achieved with such a pick.

Even a Bard would be a better concept.

[Triceron]

Not really. Shadow Hunters use it too.

Seems like Shadow Hunters are hinted at too then, right?

Your move.

[Merin]

I think Tinker would be fine as long as it has some personality with it.

Fuck load better than some banal shit like Warden, That would launch half finished because no one could stay awake long enough to finish the design document

[Ielenia]

Yet they had necromantic powers. Frost and Blood are within the realm of Necromantic powers.

Irrelevant. Your argument was "Sylvanas never produced dark rangers with banshee powers", to which I countered with the fact that Arthas never produced death knights with frost or blood powers before their introduction as a playable class.

Not with both the alliance and horde hunting her.

She seems to be pretty comfortable within Ghostlands, from what we saw. We also saw that she wasn't worried at all despite having ousted herself in front of both the Alliance and the Horde, and I bet she knows she's being hunted. Only a fool would think otherwise. And yet, she's calm. Almost deathly so, so to speak.

I doubt Sylvanas is a fool to be tricked by Saurfang, of all people, into accidentally revealing her true colors like that. Her doing that before the Alliance and the Horde likely meant she no longer needed them for her plans.

Gul'Dan never appeared on the cover of either WoD or Legion. Additionally, while he was a driving force, he was never the main character. Finally, the class that appeared in Legion wasn't based on him.

Garrosh was the "main baddie" of MoP and yet he wasn't on the cover. Illidan was the "main baddie" of TBC and wasn't on the cover. Sargers was the "main baddie" of Legion and wasn't on the cover. Etc, etc.

And Sylvanas was on the cover of BfA not because she's the "main baddie" (which she isn't, N'Zoth is. Sylvans is actually the 'Gul'Dan' of BfA) but because she's the leader of the Horde. Or was, at least until halfway the expansion.

The point is: the idea that this expansion revolves around Sylvanas is false. This isn't about Sylvanas, but the Old God N'Zoth. And unless we kill her in 8.3 or 8.3.5, I'm willing to bet she'll be pivotal in the next expansion.

Which, if true, would make her comparisons to Garrosh ring even truer.

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I dont think you can compare the two.
I have yet to see a person thats like "I wish I was like Heigan!"
But you can imagine how many always wanted to be like Illidan.
DH also was one if not the most demanded class for god knows how long.

Also, Lock had only Meta overlapping with DHs.
Whole DK overlaps with Necromancers, considering DKs are their improved version.
You cant compare one shared spell with a whole class almost being a 1:1 copy of an existant class.

I highly doubt they pull off yet another dark hero class with yet another death theme, especially when we have far more interesting classes in the open that would offer things we cannot experience yet.
A ranged cloth DK isnt exactly what I call unique, interesting or what the Game truly needs.

We need more class diversity, more class and less spec focusing.
That isnt achieved with such a pick.

Even a Bard would be a better concept.

My point was that fan popularity doesn't really seem to be a big concern for Blizzard regarding class choice for an expansion. Because, if it was, Demon Hunters and Tinkers would have been the first two expansion classes introduced into the game, not death knights and monks.

[Teriz]

Seems like Shadow Hunters are hinted at too then, right?

Your move.

They aren't. Shadow Hunters are Troll Shaman.

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Irrelevant. Your argument was "Sylvanas never produced dark rangers with banshee powers", to which I countered with the fact that Arthas never produced death knights with frost or blood powers before their introduction as a playable class.

Again, he produced DKs who could use Necromancy, thus it's easy to expand that concept to Blood and Frost because those are also part of Necromancy.

Sylvanas just produces undead Hunters. It's always been that way.

She seems to be pretty comfortable within Ghostlands, from what we saw. We also saw that she wasn't worried at all despite having ousted herself in front of both the Alliance and the Horde, and I bet she knows she's being hunted. Only a fool would think otherwise. And yet, she's calm. Almost deathly so, so to speak.

There's a difference between being comfortable in hiding and raising an army. An army of Dark Rangers would get rolled by the combined Horde and Alliance, and its doubtful she even has the necessary material to create an army of Dark Rangers. Remember, DRs are experienced Rangers BEFORE they die. Does Sylvanas have hundreds of ranger corpses laying around? Doubtful.

I doubt Sylvanas is a fool to be tricked by Saurfang, of all people, into accidentally revealing her true colors like that. Her doing that before the Alliance and the Horde likely meant she no longer needed them for her plans.

Headcanon. Thanks for sharing.

Garrosh was the "main baddie" of MoP and yet he wasn't on the cover. Illidan was the "main baddie" of TBC and wasn't on the cover. Sargers was the "main baddie" of Legion and wasn't on the cover. Etc, etc.

Laughable. Of course this expansion is about Sylvanas. It started with her in the opening cinematic, and by all accounts it will end with her in 8.3.5.

Yes, Illidan was on the cover because of the Demon Hunter class. Lich King was on WotLK for DKs, and Chen was on the cover of MoP for Monks. Is Sylvanas going to be on the cover of the next expansion and play a major role after being on the cover and playing a major role in this expansion?

Doubtful.

[Ielenia]

Again, he produced DKs who could use Necromancy, thus it's easy to expand that concept to Blood and Frost because those are also part of Necromancy.

Sylvanas just produces undead Hunters. It's always been that way.

For the same reason you're extrapolating on the "they use unholy, so they can use frost and blood" can also be used for Sylvanas and dark rangers. Anyways. The point is: it doesn't matter that she hasn't produced dark rangers with banshee powers so far. Because it can either be retroactively written that they are dark rangers with banshee powers (like it happened to the death knights in Naxxramas, retconned to have frost and blood powers after DKs became a playable class), or she produces new dark rangers now that she has new powers. Or both.

There's a difference between being comfortable in hiding and raising an army.

I'm pretty sure that, given the context here, there isn't much difference. Because you can only be calm when you have vast armies after you when you either: a) have unbelievable power; b) have an army; or c) both.

An army of Dark Rangers would get rolled by the combined Horde and Alliance,

Not if it's backed by the powers and minions of whatever powers Sylvanas allied herself with.

and its doubtful she even has the necessary material to create an army of Dark Rangers.

It implies that we know what the "necessary materials" are. Which we don't.

Remember, DRs are experienced Rangers BEFORE they die. Does Sylvanas have hundreds of ranger corpses laying around? Doubtful.

The new ones don't have to be Hunter/Rangers corpses. The original DKs were paladins... but then all sorts of heroes could become death knights, after they became a playable class.

Headcanon. Thanks for sharing.

You do know that saying "headcanon" as if it somehow counters my arguments doesn't work the way you intend it to, and is basically the same as admitting you have nothing to counter what I wrote, right?

Laughable. Of course this expansion is about Sylvanas. It started with her in the opening cinematic, and by all accounts it will end with her in 8.3.5.

I think no one ever believed that this expansion was about the faction conflict. And I'm pretty sure Blizzard went on record saying that Sylvanas isn't going to die.

Yes, Illidan was on the cover because of the Demon Hunter class. Lich King was on WotLK for DKs, and Chen was on the cover of MoP for Monks.

I can argue the Lich King was on the cover because he's the main bad guy of the expansion. I can say something similar about Illidan as he plays a pivotal role in the Legion expansion. As for Chen, I could argue he's there because, as a pandaren, he's intrinsically linked to the expansion's theme about balance.

Is Sylvanas going to be on the cover of the next expansion and play a major role after being on the cover and playing a major role in this expansion?

Doubtful.

She doesn't have to be.

[Triceron]

They aren't. Shadow Hunters are Troll Shaman.

But shadow shot isn't a shaman ability. Its a dark ranger and shadow hunter ability. This is a hint at those two classes coming. Why wouldn't it be?

I mean why else would NPCs have this ability and not our player classes amirite? It fits a new class.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

But shadow shot isn't a shaman ability. Its a dark ranger and shadow hunter ability. This is a hint at those two classes coming. Why wouldn't it be?

I mean why else would NPCs have this ability and not our player classes amirite? It fits a new class.

Because NPCs.

The big thing is what out there has new flashy animations that aren't used by players.

[Teriz]

For the same reason you're extrapolating on the "they use unholy, so they can use frost and blood" can also be used for Sylvanas and dark rangers. Anyways. The point is: it doesn't matter that she hasn't produced dark rangers with banshee powers so far. Because it can either be retroactively written that they are dark rangers with banshee powers (like it happened to the death knights in Naxxramas, retconned to have frost and blood powers after DKs became a playable class), or she produces new dark rangers now that she has new powers. Or both.

And that would be a rather huge retcon, since Blizzard has always made it clear that Sylvanas' current state is a unique process, and that she is definitely not your typical Dark Ranger due to being part Banshee. Again, Death Knights getting Frost abilities from the Lich, and an expansion of their Vampiric abilities in WC3 wasn't a retcon, it was an expansion, since Blizzard long established that necromancy is part of the DK's abilities.

I'm pretty sure that, given the context here, there isn't much difference. Because you can only be calm when you have vast armies after you when you either: a) have unbelievable power; b) have an army; or c) both.

Not if it's backed by the powers and minions of whatever powers Sylvanas allied herself with.

We'll just have to wait until 8.3.5 then.

It implies that we know what the "necessary materials" are. Which we don't.

We do; The corpses of fallen Rangers.

The new ones don't have to be Hunter/Rangers corpses. The original DKs were paladins... but then all sorts of heroes could become death knights, after they became a playable class.

Dark Rangers aren't Death Knights. WoW has established that Dark Rangers are risen Rangers hence why they're all elves save for Nathanos (who was a Human trained by elven rangers).

You do know that saying "headcanon" as if it somehow counters my arguments doesn't work the way you intend it to, and is basically the same as admitting you have nothing to counter what I wrote, right?

Except arguing that you know what a fictional character is thinking or planning is exactly that, and not worth arguing over.

I think no one ever believed that this expansion was about the faction conflict. And I'm pretty sure Blizzard went on record saying that Sylvanas isn't going to die.

Sylvanas' story ending doesn't mean she dies at the end.

I can argue the Lich King was on the cover because he's the main bad guy of the expansion. I can say something similar about Illidan as he plays a pivotal role in the Legion expansion. As for Chen, I could argue he's there because, as a pandaren, he's intrinsically linked to the expansion's theme about balance.

And all three just happened to be the lore figures of each class introduced in those expansions.

She doesn't have to be.

If Dark Rangers are the next class and they're based on her, she has to be.

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But shadow shot isn't a shaman ability. Its a dark ranger and shadow hunter ability. This is a hint at those two classes coming. Why wouldn't it be?

I mean why else would NPCs have this ability and not our player classes amirite? It fits a new class.

Nope, because again, Shadow Shot isn't a HotS or WC3 ability for either Dark Rangers or Shadow Hunters.

Seriously, this isnt that conplicated.