Just that some classes/spec were changed into using an energy like variation.
I was perfectly content with Maelstrom being something that you built up to 5 stacks, instead of becoming just another flavor of energy.
Just that some classes/spec were changed into using an energy like variation.
I was perfectly content with Maelstrom being something that you built up to 5 stacks, instead of becoming just another flavor of energy.
You're wrong about that talents dosent make a difference but i agree classes feel bad. They need to focus on making a spec fun to play at the start of the exspansion and then add whatever things they add for the current exp. However this has always been a problem the only time i rally enjoyed many specs was end of legion so much fun with full legendary and weapons.
You can say that, but there is ALWAYS a top build, and player strengths do not play a part of it because the top build is the top build for optimal playing, if you're not playing optimally then you won't be doing top end Cutting Edge content. As the other person was attempting to say certain talents, like Explosive Shot, will never be within the top build in its current iteration and many talents are this way too.
I enjoy more my mage in bfa than my mage in classic, sure its cool to be able to use spells from other schools but spamming just frostbolt is really sad
I fully agree on the matter of the majority of specs feeling rather boring and unimpressive to play in comparison to many other current games. It could be alleviated by saying that the trade off is very tight class balance, but we can't say that. There is a glaring misalignment in the performance between specs in every role be it tank/dps/healing, which isn't just about numbers but also utility tools. So both gameplay and performance are at a very disappointing state.
On the question of how did Blizzard manage to let it get so bad I hope the answer will be that they have devoted the bulk of their design power on overhauling the classes for next expansion and BfA was meant to just keep it steady until they are ready.
At this point class redesign is the only thing I am looking forward to in the next expansion, followed by plot twists and epic cutscenes.
Having frost being the superior leveling spec is no different than Resto being the superior healing druid spec. The idea that people play cookie cutter specs when given choices (lol, so what?) is a laughable reason to dismiss the choices classic presents. Talents change between specs... abilities available change between specs... This is a limitation, not a set of choices. While the resulting choices might seem complex or like they represent a larger piece of your character, there used to be these things called 'hybrid specs' where you wouldn't bottom out the your main talent tree, instead opting to build around the utility in the lower parts of the tree. This might mean taking a talent that gives your roots pushback protection (pvp) and talents that reduce cost of shifting, but you have to spend points into specific trees to get those. Meaning you might have to trade utility later on in the tree. This makes things more interesting than simply 'pick one of three, you've unlocked a new teir 15 levels later.'
When you have more choices, characters become more interesting to play. I've been playing both classic and live. I've not used a single cookie cutter design for anything, not even back in vanilla. It's an option, but it's not a reason to dismiss the choices you have. Sure, use a 'cookie cutter' spec you found online. Then modify it to your play style (because that's what you have to do anyway, derp). Like, anyone who wants a competitive edge, in anything, will poll the community to see what works best. While 'best' may be subjective, considering there are different areas of the game to play, 'best' is still a good jumping off point for anyone.
I played MTG for a number of years. People net-decked and you could always tell. A genuinely good player is going to take his net deck or cookie cutter build and tailor it to his own liking, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Being able to do that is why classic represents significantly more choices than on live RN. The fact that you need to the nuance of your character sheet to understand how a build plays is indicative of superior design.
I don't know why anyone bothers to post this nonsense. Even if they had never released classic, Vanilla still represents better game design than anything since. Not sure how that is so hard to grasp. The only reason anyone could call BFA titanic is if they included the entirety of Wow's expansion content, along with the original 1-60 experience. But players don't play any of it. They only play the most current expansion content, which is a very small amount of content, even when compared to what is there in Classic. Remember, I enjoy(ed) live. It's not the best version of the game, no matter how good it is.Originally Posted by otaXephon
Playing it means succumbing to the whims of Blizzard developers telling you when to value what content, which is tiresome. I don't play games to be told how to play my games. It's the same reason I'd never participate in D3 seasonal play. I play games to enjoy them, not to be pushed down a cute into the content deemed most relevant atm. Blizzard knows they can release new content and get a wave of incoming subs and box sales. They have known this for years. This is what keeps them going.
Nothing else. Factually, they are not releasing the pinnacle of MMO content every 2 years. Should probably stop acting like they are.
My Gaming Rig: Intel Core 2 quad q9650|ASUS P5G41-T M|2x4GB Supertalent DDR3 1333Mhz|Samsung 840 Evo 250GB|Fractal Design Integra R2 500w Bronze|ASUS Strix GTX 960 4GB|2x AOC e2770s 27" (one portrait, one landscape)|Bitfeenix Phenom Micro ATX
Don't hate my rig, there's nothing quite like the classics.
I think people underestimate the power of good class/spec design. Everything positive about MoP was ALWAYS first and foremost Class design.
BFA as far as content goes far exceeds MoP but it is regarded as the worst xpac wow has ever done. Why tho?
Is it titanforging? No, Legion had that and overall Legion was well received.
Better raids? No, Overral BFA has had better raids
Story? I mean the story is crap but so was the story in xpacs i put above BFA
The biggest thing that has been persistant in BFA from start to finish is Class Design. All these cool and interesting things they try is pointless if what you are doing on feels like crap.
This. Is. Your. Opinion.
Your. Opinion. Can. Not. Be. A. Fact.
I don't know how else to spell this out to you. This makes the third post in a row that you have continued to pretend like there isn't even the faintest possibility that your assessment of what is or isn't great game design could be subjective.
I'll let you know when I start sharing my opinion. I really dislike it when people ignore facts and try to dismiss them as 'opinions.' Please highlight the parts of my last 3 posts that were opinions. We'll fact check them and then you can apologize for being ignorant.
My Gaming Rig: Intel Core 2 quad q9650|ASUS P5G41-T M|2x4GB Supertalent DDR3 1333Mhz|Samsung 840 Evo 250GB|Fractal Design Integra R2 500w Bronze|ASUS Strix GTX 960 4GB|2x AOC e2770s 27" (one portrait, one landscape)|Bitfeenix Phenom Micro ATX
Don't hate my rig, there's nothing quite like the classics.
You have repeatedly indicated that Vanilla was "better design" for a number of reasons. This is an opinion. Yet you continue to base your arguments around this predetermined "fact." This is where your entire post falls apart and it's why I keep repeating myself in every response to you.
I agree the whole bring the player not the class thing likely greatly contributed. But the whole "herd instinct" think doesn't really apply to high end raiding. there isn't enough variance in play style that would make an inferior talent actually be better for someone based on playstyle. This is the case when someone is bad at the game, but being bad isn't really a playstyle.
For example, a warlock might play SO on mythic argus because he isn't good enough to play MG on that fight, but MG is always the better talent as long as you play at the acceptable level.
The stuff you said about not having enough data for some specs is accurate, but only for specs that are just outright bad and everyone knows they're sub-par even with changes.
But the reason these same talents show up in parses is because they're just better, they're better in every situation for every play style. There's no universe where drain soul is competing with death bolt, for example.
At what point did I defend the current expansion? Enlighten me, please. My issue has nothing to do with what is or isn't considered great game design and everything to do with the fact that this is a subjective statement and Vanilla being "the best" is not an objective fact as @Eroginous has repeatedly indicated.
The problem was that they revamped classes in Legion counting on the Artifact traits and legendary combinations. It worked fantastically well in Legion if you had the legendaries, but then BfA came and they screwed the pooch with Azerite gear (horrible) and Azerite neckbeard essences (lacking af).
Imo if they had given us this huge-ass grind to update the Legion legendaries we would've had a much, much better experience in BfA class-wise.
It's just a matter of comparing how much fun the classes are in Timewalk dungeons compared to the regular content. I legit enjoy TW more than regular content just because the legendaries work. Classes feel a million times better.
I'm dumbfounded at how awful BFA talent/class are compared to Legion.
Legion had a bad start too, but they worked hard, redesigned a lot of specs and turned out in a great endgame. It look like nobody gave a shit in BFA, half the talents are completely useless since release and some specs are borderline unviable for mid-tier content.
I feel like most of my time in this xpac was spent opening MMO-Champ frontpage to see if they finally fixed the game, I sure hope the people in charge get pruned before 9.0 goes live, because I'm not doing another 2 years of this mess.
On a sidenote, reading the pages here in this thread makes me wanna do a literal facepalm. The dumbest posts I see anywhere on the internet aren't from creationists, or flat earthers - it's from people on discussion forums replying to topics with phrases like "that's just your opinion" or "that's your subjective opinion".
I mean, thanks for stating the obvious? We're supposed to exchange opinions for christ sake, that's what a forum is about. Maybe come up with some good counter-arguments instead of merely stating the obvious.
Maybe people who preferred more traditional WoW and less Diablo have already taken their leave, so the only remaining folks are those who actually enjoy Diablo 3: Forced Multiplayer Edition. !@#&ing Path of Exile has (way) more ACTUAL character customisation than WoW, and it's an ARPG ffs.