1. #1

    China could control your politics

    If China can blackmail Western companies to do its bidding when it comes to freedom of speech, by threatening to ban them from the Chinese market, of which the Chinese government is in full control, then why stop there?!

    China should next endorse Western politicians by telling Western companies to endorse them OR ELSE.

    Politicians will then kiss China's ass for political gains. And once in power, take pro-China measures.

    Twitter will start calling "chinophobes" the people who will point out there is way too much China influence in politics.

    Before you know it, mandatory Chinese lessons in schools, promotion of Chinese culture, etc etc. Eventually one Earth - one China.

  2. #2
    Chill out. You are overestimating (as they are themselves) how much China actually can do. And people like Trump wont be in power forever, nor countries like India, Japan and Russia will kiss their ass...

  3. #3
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Companies doing everything for profits is blackmail now?



    jesus..

  4. #4
    I am Murloc! shadowmouse's Avatar
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    Whatever he is drinking, I'll take two! I'm pretty sure that things such as the ongoing trade war show pretty clearly that this isn't going to happen. /facepalm
    With COVID-19 making its impact on our lives, I have decided that I shall hang in there for my remaining days, skip some meals, try to get children to experiment with making henna patterns on their skin, and plant some trees. You know -- live, fast, dye young, and leave a pretty copse. I feel like I may not have that quite right.

  5. #5
    China isn't going to rule the world quite that soon, but it will start creeping further into our lives. Right now China may punish a company if someone in that company speaks out against them. They will also force a company to change their product in order to gain access to the Chinese market. Maybe the most famous example on this forum would be Blizzard censoring undead models.

    What's going to happen eventually is they will force companies to adhere to guidelines outside of China that go beyond just criticizing China itself. If they aren't doing this already in ways I'm just unaware of, that is. If you want to know what these guidelines would be then just look at what they do to their own people and services. For example, when they start applying their social credit system to foreign companies, the resulting credit scores could take into account things the company and its employees do and say outside of China that don't directly relate to China.

    They will use tools like that to not only discourage certain behavior, but also to encourage certain behavior. The end result will be a produce or service that's not only censored for Chinese consumers, but everyone else as well. If you're American then think of it like California with products. A lot of products are altered to meet the demands of California law because the market is so big. Those products and services end up being altered for the entire country in many cases. Except with China it will go beyond just forcing cars to be more efficient.

    Again, if you want to know what those things would be just look at what China censors, punishes, and rewards with their own citizens and companies.
    Last edited by Blur4stuff; 2019-10-13 at 03:39 PM.

  6. #6
    I am Murloc! shadowmouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff
    For example, when they start applying their social credit system to foreign companies, the resulting credit scores could take into account things the company and its employees do and say outside of China that don't directly relate to China.
    Small problem with your example ... despite being discussed as a goal, and despite there having been a few experiments, the beloved bugaboo of the social credit score doesn't exist in the form you appear to think it does.
    With COVID-19 making its impact on our lives, I have decided that I shall hang in there for my remaining days, skip some meals, try to get children to experiment with making henna patterns on their skin, and plant some trees. You know -- live, fast, dye young, and leave a pretty copse. I feel like I may not have that quite right.

  7. #7
    I'm laying out what I think China will do in the coming decades. When it comes to non-Chinese companies, I believe China will eventually force them to behave a certain way even outside of China in matters that aren't necessarily directed at China. The mechanisms they use for this may or may not be a social credit type score.

    In a sense, this already happens with many companies in most countries. Just not at the scale that China will eventually have. For example, let's say you have business interests in one particular country and the leader of that country wants you to do or say something in order to keep those business interests safe. Since this is the politics forum, Trump is a fantastic example of this in action.
    Last edited by Blur4stuff; 2019-10-13 at 04:11 PM.

  8. #8
    its all about levers of power. Once you create a complex education system, a complex media system, a complete social welfare system, etc. its all becomes at-risk of being corrupted to serve an authoritarian leader. It doesn't have to be China. It could be home-grown. Had Huey P. Long not been assassinated, he probably reaches the white house and corrupts the New Deal to serve him as supreme leader.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    China isn't going to rule the world quite that soon, but it will start creeping further into our lives.
    The sooner the US collapses into civil unrest, the sooner China will become the world superpower.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  9. #9
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sygmar View Post
    If China can blackmail Western companies to do its bidding when it comes to freedom of speech, by threatening to ban them from the Chinese market, of which the Chinese government is in full control, then why stop there?!

    China should next endorse Western politicians by telling Western companies to endorse them OR ELSE.

    Politicians will then kiss China's ass for political gains. And once in power, take pro-China measures.

    Twitter will start calling "chinophobes" the people who will point out there is way too much China influence in politics.

    Before you know it, mandatory Chinese lessons in schools, promotion of Chinese culture, etc etc. Eventually one Earth - one China.
    They are already kind of trail blazers in some respect. In that I don't doubt that "Social Credit" isn't coming to the USA, EU and UK at some point as well as others. In terms of power, they are assuming yet again their ancient position as the "Middle Kingdom" or "Center of the World State".
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  10. #10
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    It could be a major problem if China grows its influence and Westerners don't stand up for liberal democratic values. But just the fact that there is such a big uproar shows that we're on top of things. There are a few people who don't see anything wrong with China's behavior but as far as what i've seen the responses have largely been correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    The sooner the US collapses into civil unrest, the sooner China will become the world superpower.
    A lot of "civil unrest" is just drama. There's no point in prophecizing these things when it's entirely up to us to decide what happens.

  11. #11
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sygmar View Post
    If China can blackmail Western companies to do its bidding when it comes to freedom of speech, by threatening to ban them from the Chinese market, of which the Chinese government is in full control, then why stop there?!
    What you're describing is "international trade". There is no "blackmail" to be had, there; China controls its own market, as every nation on the planet controls their internal market.

    If they're placing restrictions a company finds unacceptable, do your business elsewhere. If you find them an acceptable price, continue doing business there. The real focus should be on companies making questionable decisions at the Chinese government's request; take that issue up with those companies. China's not forcing them to do a goddamned thing, not unless they're based in China, and the three that have gotten press to my knowledge (the NBA, Blizzard, and Apple) are not based there.

    China should next endorse Western politicians by telling Western companies to endorse them OR ELSE.
    And those companies are free to tell them "nah".

    That's what you don't get, apparently.

    Politicians will then kiss China's ass for political gains. And once in power, take pro-China measures.
    Then don't vote for them?

    Twitter will start calling "chinophobes" the people who will point out there is way too much China influence in politics.
    Literally not happening. You're making shit up.

    Before you know it, mandatory Chinese lessons in schools, promotion of Chinese culture, etc etc. Eventually one Earth - one China.
    And this is crazypants territory.

    You're arguing that nobody outside of China has any capacity to make their own free choices.


  12. #12
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If they're placing restrictions a company finds unacceptable, do your business elsewhere. If you find them an acceptable price, continue doing business there.
    The former implies an all-or-nothing strategy which is okay but may not be necessary. It's okay to do business somewhere while still being in constant conflict with that country's values.
    Last edited by PC2; 2019-10-13 at 06:00 PM.

  13. #13
    And Xi is now threatening anyone that attempts to divide china "will get crushed bodies and shattered bones". This is pretty scary shit. We need to move our companies and americans out of there now. What does "attempt to divide china" even mean to him anyway? People that share Winnie the pooh memes?

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKBN1WS07W
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2019-10-13 at 05:35 PM.

  14. #14
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    And Xi is now threatening anyone that attempts to divide china "will get crushed bodies and shattered bones". This is pretty scary shit. We need to move our companies and americans out of there now. What does "attempt to divide china" even mean to him anyway? People that share Winnie the pooh memes?

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKBN1WS07W
    Meh, he knows that if liberal democratic values like free speech and government criticism are allowed he'll be the one with crushed bones. As the Chinese populace becomes more educated it will be inevitable that it happens over the long-term. Either that or the country will eventually decline when the uneducated but massive population can no longer compete in a world where simple tasks are automated.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    We need to move our companies and americans out of there now.
    Maybe, it kind of depends on how things evolve over the next decade. I'd be interested in Skroe's response to the latest China uproar, except he's constantly banned because of the fixation on Trump. >.<

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    In that I don't doubt that "Social Credit" isn't coming to the USA, EU and UK at some point as well as others.
    ???

    Based on your geuss what would the criteria for credit assignment be in this hypothetical scenario.

    Update;
    Oh maybe you meant to use the double negative. It's hard to parse.
    Last edited by PC2; 2019-10-13 at 06:59 PM.

  15. #15
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    And Xi is now threatening anyone that attempts to divide china "will get crushed bodies and shattered bones". This is pretty scary shit. We need to move our companies and americans out of there now. What does "attempt to divide china" even mean to him anyway? People that share Winnie the pooh memes?

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKBN1WS07W
    Cute that you think you have power over the big multi-nationals.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    It could be a major problem if China grows its influence and Westerners don't stand up for liberal democratic values. But just the fact that there is such a big uproar shows that we're on top of things. There are a few people who don't see anything wrong with China's behavior but as far as what i've seen the responses have largely been correct.



    A lot of "civil unrest" is just drama. There's no point in prophecizing these things when it's entirely up to us to decide what happens.
    No company has ever upheld those values, same goes for the countries they are from. So tough shit.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    And Xi is now threatening anyone that attempts to divide china "will get crushed bodies and shattered bones". This is pretty scary shit. We need to move our companies and americans out of there now. What does "attempt to divide china" even mean to him anyway? People that share Winnie the pooh memes?

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKBN1WS07W
    That's a direct threat against the western left. China sees liberals in the US and Europe attempting to divide their own nations in half on issues of race, gender and class. He's staying keep it out of his nation. Like I say, if civil unrest breaks out in the US, China will absolutely protect and defend the right wing. He will send in troops to defend the right wing. Because Xi wants to crush subversives, and China sees the left as subversives.
    Last edited by Kokolums; 2019-10-13 at 07:13 PM.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  17. #17
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Foreign countries affecting our politics? What a revelation.
    /s

  18. #18
    Are corporations even allowed to fund politicians in countries that aren't the US? I thought that was our unique brand of stupidity.

  19. #19
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommunismWillWin View Post
    Cute that you think you have power over the big multi-nationals.
    It depends on how evenly they are distributed across different regions. If the preponderance of a company's activity is in democracies then certainly the voters have a lot of power.

    No company has ever upheld those values, same goes for the countries they are from. So tough shit.
    It sounds like you are an extremely cynical person? The stakeholders of any organization can be reasoned with.
    Last edited by PC2; 2019-10-13 at 07:45 PM.

  20. #20
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Are corporations even allowed to fund politicians in countries that aren't the US? I thought that was our unique brand of stupidity.
    They just do it indirectly in other countries. The Dutch senate is a great example of that(50%+ are corrupt scumbags taking corperate money by getting multiple """Jobs""")

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