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  1. #1181
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    I kind of get that but it still feels wrong even if it is in a round about way to punish people for just being alive in the wrong place. I know business gonna business but pullouts, sanctions etc never really do anything to those who need to be punished, if these and sanctions did work we'd have got rid of Putin, PRC, Kim dynasty years ago. But in the end all it ever does is hurt the people who don't have a say and most of the time backfires. I know you can't compare playing games with human rights. Though at the same time it still feels like pulling out of china would punish people who have no say.

    If you gave me a button that said "Hong Kong free." with "High PRC members will all be shown on daytime tv being dragged through the streets." I'd press the button and grab the popcorn, press it again more times for good measure (I mean I would like the entire communist party destroyed. But China has a history of civil wars if change happens far too quickly). I know people that left HK around the time of the handover and work with them along with donating to international charities so people of HK are as safe as possible.

    I'm more mad at Google and Apple than I am at blizzard over China and HK. Blizzard basically banned a player and didn't reign in Netease when it made the Weibo statement (which no one can be 100% sure if even Netease wrote that or Weibo edited the fuck out of it like the do with anything that has a foreign logo on to make it seem like a china number 1 style post. Also not sure what any kind of statement on it would have done that wouldn't fan a flame in one direction. As for the AU thing, that was if they banned people would rebel, if they didn't people would rebel.), it's shitty. But the other two plus others have actually put lives in danger by pulling off apps that protestors use to keep themselves safe. That's magnitudes worse. When it comes to google and people using Youtube to slam blizzard to me it feels like false outrage.

    Basically rallying behind a cause while actually going against your cause by using a platform that's owned by a company that is guilty of all the same things plus more. To me at least it actually feels more like "How can I make internet points and money off rage." if they're using google owned platform for the message, or use apple products at the same time which most of these people are, especially people like Heelsvsbabyface when everything he does is post anti blizzard, add commercials every 5 minutes in the video, since he can't function in a real job and lost a ton of money when he stopped playing wow (Taliesin had the best show about that with him saying he hates bananas and every five minutes Evitel finds him eating one and complaining about eating bananas when all he has to do is top eating bananas.). It's like Sideshow Bob in the Simpson's using TV to cry about TV then trying to cop out with "I know the Irony.".

    As for going forward. Imo as much as I doubt Brack banned Blitz, decided on the initial punishment etc (I'm sure that was done in Taiwan) behind the scenes he and people around him should find a way to get him a payoff for him to fall on his sword so to speak. He may not have done anything personally but he's the face of it and it's on him. Don't let the number be released (even if it was something like $1m it won't look good). Beg Morhaime to come back to steady the ship, he's like, he's presentable, he's media savvy. Everything Brack wasn't even before "You think you do but you don't.". If you're going to be the face you have to be known to the public and at least liked by a certain %. I mean Metzen if it was a figurehead position would be perfect. Loved, Charismatic to a fault, some story guys may have issues but that's about it.

    Maybe 2-3 years of leave Brack could come back at a mid tier level, he did things right before. It's just the position of President when it comes with being a face doesn't work with someone that really isn't media savvy.
    Wow, you really had a lot on your chest in this matter thanks for the nice read
    Im not sure how to reply (>_<)
    I just feel sorry for Hong Kong, that is all...they are fighting for freedom
    "Police have arrested more than 2,300 people since June. Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam has said that, since September, nearly 40% of those arrested were under the age of 18 and 10% under 15, without giving the total number of arrests."

    KIDS...fucking kids fighting for freedom...so sad

  2. #1182
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Except blizzard is not doing business with people against freedom of speech. Blizzard is doing with citizens who are being silenced by their government.
    They cannot get WoW to the people without the ISP and specific approval. Guess who controls the ISP and has to give their approval before they can? The Chinese government. So, they absolutely are doing business with communist regime against freedom of speech. To say they don't is to be wrong.

  3. #1183
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Except blizzard is not doing business with people against freedom of speech. Blizzard is doing with citizens who are being silenced by their government.
    Very nice point, i give you that.

  4. #1184
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Wow, you really had a lot on your chest in this matter thanks for the nice read
    Im not sure how to reply (>_<)
    I just feel sorry for Hong Kong, that is all...they are fighting for freedom
    "Police have arrested more than 2,300 people since June. Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam has said that, since September, nearly 40% of those arrested were under the age of 18 and 10% under 15, without giving the total number of arrests."

    KIDS...fucking kids fighting for freedom...so sad
    I tend to ramble a lot at times. I swear I'm not old :P

  5. #1185
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Very nice point, i give you that.
    Except it isn;'t a point at all. Blizzard cannot get it's game to the people without the ISP which is run by the government. They cannot get their game to the people without approval of said government. That means Blizzard is doing business with the Chinese government and therefore doing business with people that are against freedom of speech.

  6. #1186
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    They cannot get WoW to the people without the ISP and specific approval. Guess who controls the ISP and has to give their approval before they can? The Chinese government. So, they absolutely are doing business with communist regime against freedom of speech. To say they don't is to be wrong.
    And that is
    1. A necessary evil to provide services to the Chinese people, companies and governments have done this for as long as humans have traded.
    2. What do you want blizzard to do about it, hire a private army to take out the Chinese government?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  7. #1187
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    And that is
    1. A necessary evil to provide services to the Chinese people, companies and governments have done this for as long as humans have traded.
    2. What do you want blizzard to do about it, hire a private army to take out the Chinese government?
    1. No it is not necessary evil. There is zero law that says they are required to to business with China. AT ALL.
    2.What I want them to do is cease all business with China until the government cleans up their act. Otherwise J Allen Bracks claims about what Blizzard tries to be is a bunch of BS.

    But I guess it is OK by you for their people to be slaughtered and abused by their government as long as you can make money off of them.
    Last edited by rrayy; 2019-10-14 at 01:06 AM.

  8. #1188
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    A necessary evil to provide services to the Chinese people, companies and governments have done this for as long as humans have traded.
    A necessary evil still means they are doing it. Blizzard has modified their product at the direct request of the Chinese government. They need direct approval in order to do business at all. It doesn't matter who the end consumer of the product is. For example The Witcher 3 did not require direct US government approval in order to be sold to United States citizens.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  9. #1189
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    1. No it is not necessary evil. There is zero law that says they are required to to business with China. AT ALL.
    2.What I want them to do is cease all business with China until the government cleans up their act. Otherwise J Allen Bracks claims about what Blizzard tries to be is a bunch of BS.

    But I guess it is OK by you for their people to be slaughtered and abused by their government as long as you can make money off of them.
    Selling stuff to the Chinese people does not mean you condone what Chinese government is doing. Or else no country would do business with china. Germany, turkey or Russia, even America.

    Even back in world war 2 America and Germany still traded goods

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    A necessary evil still means they are doing it. Blizzard has modified their product at the direct request of the Chinese government. They need direct approval in order to do business at all. It doesn't matter who the end consumer of the product is. For example The Witcher 3 did not require direct US government approval in order to be sold to United States citizens.
    ActuAlly yes, witcher 3 did need government approval to be sold here. Any and all big media does. Just like how many pokemon. And yugioh episodes got banned or massively changed. Same with video games and stuff like yugioh cards
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  10. #1190
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Selling stuff to the Chinese people does not mean you condone what Chinese government is doing. Or else no country would do business with china. Germany, turkey or Russia, even America.

    Even back in world war 2 America and Germany still traded goods
    Yes it does. If you truly didn't condone it, you wouldn't do business in the first place. That is how you show you don't condone it. As I said, It's OK by you as long as you can make money off of them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Selling stuff to the Chinese people does not mean you condone what Chinese government is doing. Or else no country would do business with china. Germany, turkey or Russia, even America.

    Even back in world war 2 America and Germany still traded goods

    - - - Updated - - -



    ActuAlly yes, witcher 3 did need government approval to be sold here. Any and all big media does. Just like how many pokemon. And yugioh episodes got banned or massively changed. Same with video games and stuff like yugioh cards
    No they didn't. The only government involvement was the rating the game was given. No government approval needed and none had to be asked for. Unlike China.

  11. #1191
    Quote Originally Posted by tmamass View Post
    Seriously? Are you that ignorant to think China will just say "ok ppl you won you can have hong kong for yourself"? if you think that you should see some professional help.
    Nobody is suggesting that totalitarian regimes will go down without a fight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  12. #1192
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    No they didn't. The only government involvement was the rating the game was given. No government approval needed and none had to be asked for. Unlike China.
    It's late and I'm dense but could you spell out how that is different? Presumably the censors who decide on the ratings are also the ones that ban video games from commercial release, or does it not work that way?
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
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  13. #1193
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    It's late and I'm dense but could you spell out how that is different? Presumably the censors who decide on the ratings are also the ones that ban video games from commercial release, or does it not work that way?
    I think it's more that the Chinese censors ban things after the fact. It's not so much that you submit it for classification and they give you the thumbs up or down at that point (I mean they probably do that as well), but rather you wake up one morning and your product is scrubbed from the Chinese internet because it had Pooh in it or something.

    So for businesses, they don't necessarily know ahead of time what will lead to a ban, so they tread lightly and keep an eye out for anything that's known to attract the attention of Chinese censors. Like maps of China that don't include Taiwan, that's a common one. Or too much mention of Tibet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  14. #1194
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    ActuAlly yes, witcher 3 did need government approval to be sold here. Any and all big media does. Just like how many pokemon. And yugioh episodes got banned or massively changed. Same with video games and stuff like yugioh cards
    Okay. So what part of the US government censors, modifies, and requires changes of media before being consumed by citizens? The ESRB is not a government controlled entity.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  15. #1195
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    It's late and I'm dense but could you spell out how that is different? Presumably the censors who decide on the ratings are also the ones that ban video games from commercial release, or does it not work that way?
    The ESRB does not ban games. They give it a rating. That rating may limit where it is sold, but it doesn't ban the sale. As it is the ESRB isn't even under government control. The 1st Amendment pretty much bars the government from banning any type of media.
    Last edited by rrayy; 2019-10-14 at 01:34 AM.

  16. #1196
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    It's late and I'm dense but could you spell out how that is different? Presumably the censors who decide on the ratings are also the ones that ban video games from commercial release, or does it not work that way?
    The ESRB doesn't ban products. It assigns a rating to them in order to control if it is appropriate for certain age groups. Steam doesn't require ESRB ratings in order for a game to be sold for example. While some states do have some rules based on the ratings it is largely a self-imposed rule because retail used to rule the world. And these trade groups and other "concerned parents" groups could have hurt the retail stores financially.

    Canada does require ESRB in some parts as well.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  17. #1197
    Fair cop, I thought there had been a thread here ages back about some Japanese Loli- game being banned in America; but it may simply have been the publisher didn't want to/bother to release it in America or chose not to after negative backlash. Thought maybe there was an "obscenity" workaround to the first amendment.

    Mostly its just late and I'm dense
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  18. #1198
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Fair cop, I thought there had been a thread here ages back about some Japanese Loli- game being banned in America; but it may simply have been the publisher didn't want to/bother to release it in America or chose not to after negative backlash. Thought maybe there was an "obscenity" workaround to the first amendment.
    Well, you're not wrong about that last part; the US Supreme Court has established that the First Amendment does not apply to obscenity (though what is considered obscene has changed considerably over time). I can't comment on the exact circumstances you're referencing without knowing more, but it's possible there was concern over it veering too close to child pornography.

  19. #1199
    man, this has turned into a bad situation.

    us free speech bros fucked up. we cracked the door, and the enemy burst through it.

    instead of jumping on them about banning him, we should have been jumping on them to enforce their rules equally. want no politics? then put your money where your mouth is and stop having politics you agree with in your streams.

    now it's too late though, that goddamned demon fucker soros has found an opening. now we're gonna get slammed with political shit constantly in all this shit.
    Last edited by derpkitteh; 2019-10-14 at 02:51 AM.

  20. #1200
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    ActuAlly yes, witcher 3 did need government approval to be sold here.
    In the US? No, no it did not. The only regulation on video games in the US is the ESRB and they are fully funded and ran by the industry itself, not the government. Also not even required, certain platform holders require a ESRB rating for you to release their game there but others do not. Plenty of un-rated games on Steam for example.

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