Turkish troops launch offensive into northern Syria, says Erdogan

[Draco-Onis]

Turkey is committing war crimes. No doubt but for the call of genocide to be valid it has to be legally proven that it aims to eradicate the Kurdish people. That is not the case. Why? There are 10 million Kurds in Turkey to this day. They are an oppressed minority. But they are alive and well and take part in politics, take part in day to day local councils and are part of the government in Ankara.

Are you fucking kidding me? you are calling by your admission an oppressed minority doing well? they can't call themselves Kurds and live in fear of their lives knowing the Turks can wipe them out on a whim like they have done before. Your defense of these psychopaths who are committing genocide in another country is fucking sad and pathetic.

[ParanoiD84]

1.2 to 1.5 million people were killed in the slave trade at bare minimum. Do you constitue that as genocide? After all it was systematic, focused on a notion of racial superority and far more people died.

Yeah you should check out a thing called the arab slave trade that was a thing long long before europe and the us started where up to 20 million africans died just on route to the middle east and who knows how many slaves acually got there alive.

But please oh all those european and american slave traders lmao.

Should also check who ended the slave trade too, you can perhaps see where it's still alive to this very day.

[Hif]

Are you fucking kidding me? you are calling by your admission an oppressed minority doing well? they can't call themselves Kurds and live in fear of their lives knowing the Turks can wipe them out on a whim like they have done before. Your defense of these psychopaths who are committing genocide in another country is fucking sad and pathetic.

Two things. 1 the banning of Kurdish etc was undertaken by the Military Junta that supported Kemalism and had the full support of the US. Just like in Pakistan when Zia took over with US support due to the war in Afghanistan.

2. Progress has been slow but its been made with 2 Kurdish parties taking part in general elections in the past 15 years. They didn't mean the threshold but they did partake in elections.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_T..._d%27%C3%A9tat

Also you said Turkey is committing genocide in Syria. Prove it.

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Yeah you should check out a thing called the arab slave trade that was a thing long long before europe and the us started where up to 20 million africans died just on route to the middle east and who knows how many slaves acually got there alive.

But please oh all those european and american slave traders lmao.

Should also check who ended the slave trade too, you can perhaps see where it's still alive to this very day.

Proof? Lets not go with some right wing nut job link. Legitimate sources. Because last I know around 732 AD to 1400 AD they didn't keep regular book records.

[ParanoiD84]

Two things. 1 the banning of Kurdish etc was undertaken by the Military Junta that supported Kemalism and had the full support of the US. Just like in Pakistan when Zia took over with US support due to the war in Afghanistan.

2. Progress has been slow but its been made with 2 Kurdish parties taking part in general elections in the past 15 years. They didn't mean the threshold but they did partake in elections.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_T..._d%27%C3%A9tat

Also you said Turkey is committing genocide in Syria. Prove it.

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Proof? Lets not go with some right wing nut job link. Legitimate sources. Because last I know around 732 AD to 1400 AD they didn't keep regular book records.

How about you do your own research about the arab slave trade? guess you know nothing at all.

[Hif]

How about you do your own research about the arab slave trade? guess you know nothing at all.

No you are gonna provide BS then back it up. Otherwise you are just lying.

[ati87]

Who gives a flying fuck no one is defending slavery or those killings the reason the EU is not accepting is because they are ashamed of these events. Turkey is committing a genocide as we speak Turkey is not showing remorse or even trying to hide it they are applauding and reveling is their massacre huge fucking difference.

Do you even know what genocide means? It's dishonest at best to throw that word around so casually when the countries that are opposed to Turkey have committed war-crimes and atrocities that will have consequences for decades.

You could argue that what Turkey is doing is maybe a war-crime but genocide is something much worse. If there was actual genocide going on now the stories that we would be getting would be similar to what's happening in Yemen or what previously happend in Syria when Russia was bombing the place.

[ParanoiD84]

No you are gonna provide BS then back it up. Otherwise you are just lying.

It's called common knowledge but i guess they dont teach that where your from.

[Hif]

It's called common knowledge but i guess they dont teach that where your from.

No its not. As you can't back it up. You are just lying. Pure and simple.

[ParanoiD84]

No its not. As you can't back it up. You are just lying. Pure and simple.

Dr. John Alembellah Azumah estimates in his 2001 book “The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa” that over 80 million more Black people died over that route.

So most others estimate far above what i said with 20 million only.

And

Black boys between the age of 8 and 12 had their scrotums and penises completely amputated to prevent them from reproducing. About six of every 10 boys bled to death during the procedure, according to some sources, but the high price brought by eunuchs on the market made the practice profitable.

And
“The calipha in Baghdad at the beginning of the 10th Century had 7,000 black eunuchs and 4,000 white eunuchs in his palace,” writes author Ronald Segal in his 2002 book “Islam’s Black Slaves: The Other Black Diaspora.”

And
racist attitudes towards Blacks began to manifest in Arabic language and literature. The word for slave —abid — became a colloquialism for African. Other words, such as haratin, express social inferiority of Africans.

There is tons of sources historians on the arab slave trade online ,try read some of them and you shall see. And it was not pretty.


There is literally hundreds of sources all saying the same, and better yet you should read who ended the slave trades and take a good look in the world today where it's still a thing.

[CostinR]

As long as the US maintained its former position with the Kurds Turkey couldn't do jack shit, Erdrogan called Trump and he folded like a lawn chair because of his hotels in Istanbul. The current situation will result in the US going back into either Syria or another ME country to fight ISIS 2.0 with no back up this time, because they will thrive and prosper from this chaos.

I think you underestimate Erdogan in this respect. Keeping in mind that European countries also had troops stationed in northern Syria and they too pulled them out, because at the end of the day they don't want to get into a shooting war with Turkey.

As for ISIS 2.0. I personally call that BS. The Washington Foreign Policy class, the Blob if you will, is using that a talking point when in reality they simply don't want to say out loud they want the US to stay in Syria to protect the Kurds, who quite a few feel the US has a debt to, and to not "lose the war" so to speak.

Because the US withdrawing from Syria? Yeah it means the US failed completely in their goals, especially in attempting to remove Assad.

[Hif]

Dr. John Alembellah Azumah estimates in his 2001 book “The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa” that over 80 million more Black people died over that route.

So most others estimate far above what i said with 20 million only.

And

Black boys between the age of 8 and 12 had their scrotums and penises completely amputated to prevent them from reproducing. About six of every 10 boys bled to death during the procedure, according to some sources, but the high price brought by eunuchs on the market made the practice profitable.

And
“The calipha in Baghdad at the beginning of the 10th Century had 7,000 black eunuchs and 4,000 white eunuchs in his palace,” writes author Ronald Segal in his 2002 book “Islam’s Black Slaves: The Other Black Diaspora.”

And
racist attitudes towards Blacks began to manifest in Arabic language and literature. The word for slave —abid — became a colloquialism for African. Other words, such as haratin, express social inferiority of Africans.

There is tons of sources historians on the arab slave trade online ,try read some of them and you shall see. And it was not pretty.


There is literally hundreds of sources all saying the same, and better yet you should read who ended the slave trades and take a good look in the world today where it's still a thing.

Link. You typing up something without sourcing it isn't evidence.

Also seriously Abid refers to the word slave. Doesn't have anything to do with africans. Black in arabic is aswad. And African in arabic is Al Afriqiya. So nope.

Abid just means slave. White, black green pink or indigo.

[Draco-Onis]

Do you even know what genocide means? It's dishonest at best to throw that word around so casually when the countries that are opposed to Turkey have committed war-crimes and atrocities that will have consequences for decades.

Oh yes everyone Turkey is slaughtering right now are "terrorists"

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Also you said Turkey is committing genocide in Syria. Prove it.

You mean beside Turkey announcing they will wipe out the Kurds in Syria, were they joking? it's only been a few days give those murderous monsters time they even hired contractors to do their most heinous work.

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As for ISIS 2.0. I personally call that BS. The Washington Foreign Policy class, the Blob if you will, is using that a talking point when in reality they simply don't want to say out loud they want the US to stay in Syria to protect the Kurds, who quite a few feel the US has a debt to, and to not "lose the war" so to speak.

There are 12K ISIS fighters and 70-80K ISIS supporting civilians being held by the Kurds who are currently escaping in the chaos, if you think they are just going to go home and roast marshmallows you are delusional.

[Kiri]

Depends did your government sell weapons or support the war in Yemen, Iraq or Libya?

Remember what is happening in Yemen is genocide. The fact that food is not allowed in, there is mass starvation, famine, and at a bare minimum war crimes. If your government has taken any action to support Saudi Arabia or Iran then yes it is supporting war crimes and genocide.

In the case of Iraq, again if your government took part in the 2003 invasion of Iraq then yes it did commit war crimes but not genocide as the UN Secretary General said on BBC's hardtalk the war in Iraq by the US and its allies is illegal.

In Syria if your government supported either the rebels or the Government of Syria then yes it did commit war crimes. Only after the war ends then will the claim of genocide be possible as access to areas is impossible. Secondly if your government provide material or financial support to people in Idlib then it is in fact supporting HTS which is Al Qaeda in Syria and has been put deemed a terrorist organization by the US, UK and the UN.

I am happy to go in to Libya and others as well if needed.

But if your government has undertaken or supported action in any of those three wars then at a bare minimum it has commited war crimes and in Yemen it is supporting genocide.

Hmm, we stayed out of Iraq and Syria, outside of training Iraqi security forces post war to help stabilize I think. And since I do criticize arms sales to Saudi Arabia, I guess I can be appalled by what Turkey is doing, whether it counts as a war crime or genocide.
I mean, it's not like I have the influence to stop any government doing what it does aside from voting in my own elections. I am against making innocents suffer in any context, and I certainly am not someone to claim my country never did anything on that scale. We extensively teach the worst instances in school to drive that point home for sure, in the hopes that future generations won't forget and won't ever repeat.

[Hif]

Hmm, we stayed out of Iraq and Syria, outside of training Iraqi security forces post war to help stabilize I think. And since I do criticize arms sales to Saudi Arabia, I guess I can be appalled by what Turkey is doing, whether it counts as a war crime or genocide.
I mean, it's not like I have the influence to stop any government doing what it does aside from voting in my own elections. I am against making innocents suffer in any context, and I certainly am not someone to claim my country never did anything on that scale. We extensively teach the worst instances in school to drive that point home for sure, in the hopes that future generations won't forget and won't ever repeat.

The simple fact is that when it comes to Turkey everyone is outraged. When it comes to the EU nations and the US actively supporting war crimes there is silence is simple hypocrisy.

I don't expect Europe and the US to change their policies they have implemented for the last 70 years to change over night. But some self reflection by Europeans and Americans on why they feel outrage when Turkey commits war crimes and when the EU and US does there is nothing but silence is extremely necessary.

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Oh yes everyone Turkey is slaughtering right now are "terrorists"

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You mean beside Turkey announcing they will wipe out the Kurds in Syria, were they joking? it's only been a few days give those murderous monsters time they even hired contractors to do their most heinous work.

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There are 12K ISIS fighters and 70-80K ISIS supporting civilians being held by the Kurds who are currently escaping in the chaos, if you think they are just going to go home and roast marshmallows you are delusional.

Link where the Turkish government said they will wipe out the Kurds in Syria?

[Draco-Onis]

Link where the Turkish government said they will wipe out the Kurds in Syria?

Are you sure you don't mean to say "terrorists"? that's what you are calling everyone slaughtered so far now with your "peace" operation that is expanding. No one with half a brain thinks Turkey is "liberating" these towns the dead bodies say otherwise.

[Kiri]

The simple fact is that when it comes to Turkey everyone is outraged. When it comes to the EU nations and the US actively supporting war crimes there is silence is simple hypocrisy.

I don't expect Europe and the US to change their policies they have implemented for the last 70 years to change over night. But some self reflection by Europeans and Americans on why they feel outrage when Turkey commits war crimes and when the EU and US does there is nothing but silence is extremely necessary.

Silence? There was quite a bit of outcry about these things in my country, and we stopped weapon exports to Saudi Arabia eventually. It's just that unless true heavy hitters like the EU as a whole or the US fully commit to doing something about it, these things just eventually become normalized and hardly newsworthy. We have had quite a few threads about Yemen here on this board, too, but they eventually petered out. Same will happen to the Kurdish issue as well.

Is that bad? Yes, certainly. It's just how we humans handle tragedies that we can't do jack about. There is so much bad happening around the world every day that, if you always kept the initial outrage up, like the one we see here, we wouldn't be able to function. That's why pointing this out is counterproductive, by the way. It is only in the beginning of a crisis that you have enough potential political capital to actually do anything about it.
The thing about hypocrites is that they are not necessarily wrong, to be honest. So what if a bunch of people didn't get this riled up over Yemen? If them getting riled up like this over Turkey's actions right now even has a chance of saving a single life that would otherwise be lost, I say it is worth it. Telling someone they should not even try because they didn't try before achieves nothing outside of pointless discussions over moral high ground and serves to enable those without morals. If no one can judge them because everyone is in some way compromised, they get to do what they want.

[Hif]

Are you sure you don't mean to say "terrorists"? that's what you are calling everyone slaughtered so far now with your "peace" operation that is expanding. No one with half a brain thinks Turkey is "liberating" these towns the dead bodies say otherwise.

Again link. The Kurds aren't terrorist. Nor is Turkey committing genocide. Turkey is committing war crimes and as of today Assad the war criminal is coming to the aid of the Kurdish people and saving them from Turkey.

I call this a cluster fuck where one day the villain is now gonna be deemed a hero for saving the Kurds.

Lets not forget Idlib is currently being controlled by Al-Qaeda and nobody seems to care about that!

[Draco-Onis]

Again link. The Kurds aren't terrorist.

Then why are all the deaths "terrorists" even the executions for hire?

[ati87]

Oh yes everyone Turkey is slaughtering right now are "terrorists"

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Did I say that? Please quote me so I can correct myself and hit myself for my mistake.


You don't really care about Syria or the Kurdish people, you just hate a specific country.

[Draco-Onis]

Did I say that? Please quote me so I can correct myself and hit myself for my mistake.


You don't really care about Syria or the Kurdish people, you just hate a specific country.

Don't get me wrong the US is to blame for a stupid decision this genocide will be as much on our hands as the Turks, it's a waste of human lives especially since we talked the Kurds out of a deal with Assad when they were in a stronger position.