Vulpera break the trend

[Raelbo]

As the only completely new, unique race of BfA, this puts an imbalance between the Horde and Alliance. So, I'm thinking this implies that the last two AR reveals will include a completely new race for the Alliance side.

While you might be correct, it annoys me that this should even be a consideration.

Yes, of course Blizzard need to try and keeps things roughly equal, but when people start becoming too focused on this idea that "everything must be absolutely equal" and then obsessing over how they have been personally slighted by Blizzard's "clear favouritism" towards the other faction over some minor difference. In the end it just results in people making themselves miserable.

[bullseyed]

Horde:
Highmountian: lame ducks no argument
Nightborne: I love their aesthetic and story. Model may not be great but that's secondary to me over the feel.
Zandarai: Are perfect in basically everything
Mag'har Orcs: Orcs without the fel baggage and closer to true Orcs. Plus more of their individual clans shine through.
Vulpera: Not a going to play one but they feel unique. Also I'd argue they are basically the archetypal Horde race.

4/5

Interesting how different opinions can be. The only race I wish hadn't been added are VE because of the degradation of the void as a result

Highmountain are just Canadian Tauren. Mooses instead of Cows.

After reading though parts of this thread, I wish they had used the Kultiran skeleton for Mag'har orcs and made them more muscular or even fat. I think that was a bit of a missed opportunity. It would have made them possibly too similar to ogres though.

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Sure the Vulpera break the "sub species" trend but they don't break the trend of the re-using of models, rigging and animation. They're still the "Goblin AR" in that regard.

Of course KT Human are the only one that broke the mold with the re-using of assets.

Is this really true though? Aren't ZD trolls a new skeleton and assets despite being "another troll" race? I know they're taller than any other Horde race.

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K'thir for Alliance, with models based on Forsaken?

While Blizzard could write in a "good guy" version, there doesn't seem to be any lore angle for K'thir being playable. They're basically humans who decided to help N'zoth.

That being said, we have void elves which are practically the same thing... but that was stupid to begin with.

[Reinhart11]

Honestly, I can give all of the 7.3.5 races a pass, as I mentioned before. They were the first baby steps in the allied race system, of which Nightborne were the biggest, but they were still baby-steps.

Dark Irons and Mag'har felt like fillers. Good fillers, but essentially making up for the fact that Zandalari were held back due to the work required on Kul Tirans. They pair well, considering they roughly feel like the same amount of work went into them and are as relevant in the story as one another.

Although Kul Tirans aren't my jam, they work well with Zandalari as well. Both of them required more than a typical time investment, especially Kul Tirans for aforementioned reasons, and they both occupy roughly the same spot in the story, of being the two main factions the Alliance and Horde respectively get to work with.

I won't mention the Mechagnomes, because my opinions on them would just upset people. I'd say that I would have preferred Ankoan to go with Vulpera instead, despite the fact that they would've been built on a Night Elf skeleton. Give them enough unique anims and they'd be roughly even.

You're right, though, that the Alliance doesn't have the best options. The Horde has cool options, old (Ogre, Mogu, Forest Trolls) and new (Sethrak), plus, if you're going for old races, you'd probably have to find some way to make them relevant again in the story. Much as I'd love High Arakkoa for the Alliance, they're currently in Draenor and pretty much an alternate timeline and dimension removed from our story. It'd be possible to make them relevant, but right now, I see Furbolgs and Broken as being the two races I can see the Alliance getting if Blizzard plans to pick from older content.

The story changes, however, if Blizzard intends to bring the allied race system into 9.0 and they focus on races that are relevant (and perhaps new) to that expansion.

Yes, a lot depends on the creativity of Blizzard when it comes to give the Alliance potentially new races, who make a good impression.

There would be actually a way for High Arakoa on Azeroth as well.

Aviana the Wild God had an interest in the High Arakoa of alternate Draenor and extended an invitation to them to come into her realm, or basically live among all other flying things of Azeroth on G'hanir in the Emerald Dream, which serves also as an afterlife for all winged creatures including dragons. But also living creatures can dwell there. So its quite easily possible that a portion of the High Arakoa followed that invitation without us knowing yet, because they didn't want any part in the happenings of Draenor at that time. These Arakoa might be from AU Draenor, but as High Arakoa never existed on our Azeroth anyway, that wouldn't present the same problem a lot of players had and have with the AU Mag'har.

[Yarathir]

Is this really true though? Aren't ZD trolls a new skeleton and assets despite being "another troll" race? I know they're taller than any other Horde race.

Nop. Female Zandalari use the female Troll skeleton with a few unique anims.
Male Zandalari, idk. Blizzard said they used the Troll male skeleton for it, but any of its non-unique animations are from the Night Elf male. Some of their animations are from the 5.2, Throne of Thunder patch NPC Zandalari model, like the walk, which was a model that was also built on the Night Elf male skeleton.

They're kind of a patchwork of male Night Elf male animations, Zandalari NPC animations (which were built on the Nelf male skeleton) and new unique animations taken from neither, like their /sit.

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Yes, a lot depends on the creativity of Blizzard when it comes to give the Alliance potentially new races, who make a good impression.

There would be actually a way for High Arakoa on Azeroth as well.

Aviana the Wild God had an interest in the High Arakoa of alternate Draenor and extended an invitation to them to come into her realm, or basically live among all other flying things of Azeroth on G'hanir in the Emerald Dream, which serves also as an afterlife for all winged creatures including dragons. But also living creatures can dwell there. So its quite easily possible that a portion of the High Arakoa followed that invitation without us knowing yet, because they didn't want any part in the happenings of Draenor at that time. These Arakoa might be from AU Draenor, but as High Arakoa never existed on our Azeroth anyway, that wouldn't present the same problem a lot of players had and have with the AU Mag'har.

I always felt like High Arakkoa (Alliance) and Gorian Ogres (Horde) would've been a nice pair to give us at the start of Legion as a result of events from Warlords of Draenor, but Legion already brough the Demon Hunter class.

Maybe the stuff with Yrel can eventually end up bringing both of them to main Azeroth.. it'd be a bit of a flimsy excuse, but I don't think Blizzard minds.

[Newname1234567890]

I don't mean to let the air out of your down-nose staring and know-it-all shtick, but there are literally thousands of games that come out every year with 'one time use' sets of animations and rigs. The industry does not begin and end with OMG MUST REUSE THESE ANIMATIONS PLZ.

And for a company of Blizzard's size and success, reusing animation rigs is more a matter of convenience than it is 'making as much money as possible' on the rig. Not that there is even a way to quantify that - I promise that there's no "the decision to reuse KT animations for this fat troll led to over $8 million dollars in revenue for the fiscal year!" TBA in any financial reports.

When you actually have a job for Blizzard, feel free to come back to the forums and regale us with stories about how their business operates. Until then? Its speculation, whether you like it or not.

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Indeed, and I appreciate the reply.

You make a good point about the Mag'har orcs btw, I hadn't considered that.

And the Nightborne thing, I was one of the people *begging* Blizzard to make them playable. I LOVED their story in Legion and working through it was my priority on non-raid days. But I was just hugely disappointed that we got these generic, wide eyed (O_O) models instead of the squinting, calculating Nightborne that I fell in love with. Like compare Valcroix or Thalyssra's face to that of a playable female Nightborne... looks like a difference race altogether. And damn it, we should have gotten a post-Legion version of Suramar as a city.

Their heritage armor is gorgeous though!

My nightborne is still a low level so not alot of chances to compare him with nightborn npc. Gonna be interesting to compare when in Legion content

[Nomads]

While you might be correct, it annoys me that this should even be a consideration.

Yes, of course Blizzard need to try and keeps things roughly equal, but when people start becoming too focused on this idea that "everything must be absolutely equal" and then obsessing over how they have been personally slighted by Blizzard's "clear favouritism" towards the other faction over some minor difference. In the end it just results in people making themselves miserable.

I honestly don't care that much. I'm not even a fan of the factions at this point. I wish all my characters could be on the same team. I just think that considering how balanced everything else turned it, it's only natural. I mean, they gave night elves to the Horde, so they gave blood elves to the Alliance, or vice versa. So giving Horde a new race seems natural they'll Alliance one too.

The more I think about it, the more I think it will be Jinyu/Ankoan...

[Yarathir]

On Nightborne: I was hoping Blizzard would go back and adjust them a little bit down the line, but Blizzard has a bit of a habit of just moving on after things have been officially released, even if they weren't in the best shape after release.

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I honestly don't care that much. I'm not even a fan of the factions at this point. I wish all my characters could be on the same team. I just think that considering how balanced everything else turned it, it's only natural. I mean, they gave night elves to the Horde, so they gave blood elves to the Alliance, or vice versa. So giving Horde a new race seems natural they'll Alliance one too.

The more I think about it, the more I think it will be Jinyu/Ankoan...

Ankoan could be interesting considering their own stance on 'honor' and their Samurai aesthetic. They'd need to be given some unique animations, though. And, of course, a female model.

But if they plan to make Ankoan playable, then I definitely would like to see them in 8.3 to further cement any connections they have with the Alliance. Right now, they're just kind of sitting in Nazjatar, catching dust and being time-locked to 8.2 events.

[Reinhart11]

@ Yarathir

If Blizzard follows through with their Light story around AU Yrel and the Naaru that would be possibly.

But i definitely don't want to see Lightforged Gorian Ogre and Lightforged High Arakoa.

Maybe Blizzard should find a believable way to collapse the AU Draenor timeline into our main timeline. Some huge Pantheon ritual, where Aman'thul combines the time lines harmonically and uses and intact Draenor to heal the world of Azeroth from the damage received by Sargeras sword and partially the damage the Old Gods caused. Could be a good way to get the Draenor and Ogre continents on to Azeroth and the Titans might even create more continents to settle and explose. Although i definitely think there should be more than one continent on Azeroth anyway, or in this case now the broken pieces of the old continent.

In such a way, we would not just get the races, but much more. And i definitely want for Ogre a proper starting location with a city and some zones. I get that Blizzard prefers Allied Races because they don't have to always provide these kind of zones (even though especially Zandalari and Kul Tiran have them in a different way), but i don't like it much. I definitely would like proper settlements with quests for races like Dark Iron, Mag'har etc.

[Yarathir]

@ Yarathir

If Blizzard follows through with their Light story around AU Yrel and the Naaru that would be possibly.

But i definitely don't want to see Lightforged Gorian Ogre and Lightforged High Arakoa.

Maybe Blizzard should find a believable way to collapse the AU Draenor timeline into our main timeline. Some huge Pantheon ritual, where Aman'thul combines the time lines harmonically and uses and intact Draenor to heal the world of Azeroth from the damage received by Sargeras sword and partially the damage the Old Gods caused. Could be a good way to get the Draenor and Ogre continents on to Azeroth and the Titans might even create more continents to settle and explose. Although i definitely think there should be more than one continent on Azeroth anyway, or in this case now the broken pieces of the old continent.

In such a way, we would not just get the races, but much more. And i definitely want for Ogre a proper starting location with a city and some zones. I get that Blizzard prefers Allied Races because they don't have to always provide these kind of zones (even though especially Zandalari and Kul Tiran have them in a different way), but i don't like it much. I definitely would like proper settlements with quests for races like Dark Iron, Mag'har etc.

Please god no, no more Lightforged versions of stuff. I'd rather they'd just be brought to Azeroth to maybe escape the zealotry of Yrel and her little army.

I do also feel like Ogres deserve their own full race treatment, but at this point, I can see them making either Mok'nathal or full Ogres on the Kul Tiran rig.

[barrsftw]

I'd like more allied races too and hopefully make the population look more lively rather than all the same. The problem comes into racials and people flocking to the superior one, etc.

You're 100% right. And I wonder how much of their time spent making the AR is creating and balancing racials?

[Mirishka]

My nightborne is still a low level so not alot of chances to compare him with nightborn npc. Gonna be interesting to compare when in Legion content

Here's a comparison for the female:



I understand them not being the exact same but they could have at least kept the original eyes.

[bullseyed]

I think the main thing holding racial diversity back is that, most people don't want to abandon their "main" who has all the reputations unlocked. People don't seem to like having their reps farmed on several different characters. I think if Blizz would make reputations account-wide and just put a weekly cap on the amount you can grind, people would main a lot of different races.

It is more than that, but yes. My main is my main and I wouldn't ever switch unless balance was so bad that I was literally not viable in raids.

I have race changed a few times. I dislike that heritage armor isn't available unless I level another character of that race, but I understand that being able to buy heritage armor via race change isn't great either.

[SkagenRora]

they're NOT night elves. they're shaldorei, a new breed of elf, separate from night elf, just like blood elf is separate from night elf.

Did you miss the Suramar cutscenes during legion? They are night elves, Just that their bodies changed after they shielded the city and all the exposure to the nightwell.

[Paraka]

I don't mean to let the air out of your down-nose staring and know-it-all shtick, but there are literally thousands of games that come out every year with 'one time use' sets of animations and rigs. The industry does not begin and end with OMG MUST REUSE THESE ANIMATIONS PLZ.

And for a company of Blizzard's size and success, reusing animation rigs is more a matter of convenience than it is 'making as much money as possible' on the rig. Not that there is even a way to quantify that - I promise that there's no "the decision to reuse KT animations for this fat troll led to over $8 million dollars in revenue for the fiscal year!" TBA in any financial reports.

When you actually have a job for Blizzard, feel free to come back to the forums and regale us with stories about how their business operates. Until then? Its speculation, whether you like it or not.

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Indeed, and I appreciate the reply.

You make a good point about the Mag'har orcs btw, I hadn't considered that.

And the Nightborne thing, I was one of the people *begging* Blizzard to make them playable. I LOVED their story in Legion and working through it was my priority on non-raid days. But I was just hugely disappointed that we got these generic, wide eyed (O_O) models instead of the squinting, calculating Nightborne that I fell in love with. Like compare Valcroix or Thalyssra's face to that of a playable female Nightborne... looks like a difference race altogether. And damn it, we should have gotten a post-Legion version of Suramar as a city.

Their heritage armor is gorgeous though!

I have always had a grievance about Elves (and beastly characters) as playable races due to it being simply the easiest answer to amiung new races. Only thing beastial characters have against Elves is that their silhouettes produce starker differences in comparison. I can almost guarantee every expansion, playable or not, is Blizzard spinning a wheel with NatGeo taped to it to make new races we deal with.

That all being said, still agree with your facial nerfing of your Nightborne. I may hate elves, but if I have to be exposed to those players at least make them intentional.

[bullseyed]

Nop. Female Zandalari use the female Troll skeleton with a few unique anims.
Male Zandalari, idk. Blizzard said they used the Troll male skeleton for it, but any of its non-unique animations are from the Night Elf male. Some of their animations are from the 5.2, Throne of Thunder patch NPC Zandalari model, like the walk, which was a model that was also built on the Night Elf male skeleton.

They're kind of a patchwork of male Night Elf male animations, Zandalari NPC animations (which were built on the Nelf male skeleton) and new unique animations taken from neither, like their /sit.

Guess is it closer than I thought.



Looks like Fem ZD Trolls are upscaled from Fem Trolls though.

[Pheraz]

Here's a comparison for the female:



I understand them not being the exact same but they could have at least kept the original eyes.

Imho the biggest problems with nightborne are the animations. For some reason they are super weird. Slow? I don't know it looks so weird when the females run. Almost like a slow-mo-little-more-bouncy-nightelves. Horrible. They look quiet cool though (okay.. not the males)

[Elbob]

Did you miss the Suramar cutscenes during legion? They are night elves, Just that their bodies changed after they shielded the city and all the exposure to the nightwell.

The simpleness of your argument means Nightelves are Trolls that were exposed to the Well of Eternity or w/e. They share ancestry but they have changed

[Yarathir]

I'm really starting to wonder, by the way, what may come next. Frankly, Blizzard can pull anything out of their hat.

But right now, when it comes to 'new' races, it's Lightbound Undead, Sethrak and Ankoan that really spring to mind for most people. With Calia going Horde, I wouldn't expect Lightbound Undead for the Alliance, if they even happen at all. Sethrak also don't seem likely, but if they happen, they'd probably be Horde.

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Guess is it closer than I thought.



Looks like Fem ZD Trolls are upscaled from Fem Trolls though.

True, but a character can be scaled up and dow nregardless of their rig, so that's not much of a shock, I guess.
Thank god the Zandalari are at least that large, though.

[Newname1234567890]

Here's a comparison for the female:



I understand them not being the exact same but they could have at least kept the original eyes.

Yeah ok that's noticable!! PC ears always seem to point really far up

[Alanar]

Then why are you still replying. Stop. You're contributing nothing to this thread. Literally nothing.

I am calling you out on this, meaning: you are contributing nothing of value here, this topic doesnt need: NIGHTBORNE IS NIGH ELF bs. "Again.."
You are not reading what has been said 3 times already. Its not about those races who OBVIOUSLY have some link to them what ever link that is. Vulpera doesnt have any links to excisting races in terms of family etc. If you still dont get it then thats a 'you' problem.

So AGAIN.. go add your dosis of elf stuff to the threads that want/ need that.

/palm.