(spoilers) New leader of Goblins

[Florena]

Oh man I would freaking love that.

Don't get your hopes up.

[Raetary]

Oh man I would freaking love that.

They don't.

It's a by Goldrinn induced dream for Tess.

[masterjc]

Thrall already shown to have the authority to dictate the Trade Prince of the Bilgewater Cartel back in cata.

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A cartel was an active member of the Old Horde in the second war.

I know. He already made stupid decision when chose Garrosh as his successor
He made another bad decision before, when allowed Forsaken into Horde. tbh I cannot see anything good that Forsaken brought into horde. only foothold in northern Lordaeron and it made more trouble for Horde, than benefits.
He allowed Gallywix stay Goblin Leader back in cata. etc

[Newname1234567890]

I know. He already made stupid decision when chose Garrosh as his successor
He made another bad decision before, when allowed Forsaken into Horde. tbh I cannot see anything good that Forsaken brought into horde. only foothold in northern Lordaeron and it made more trouble for Horde, than benefits.
He allowed Gallywix stay Goblin Leader back in cata. etc

I mean forsaken brought blood Elfs into the fold. Also during Garry's war they dominated north lordereon. But I like the Forsaken though

[FurryRedVixen]

We all know, or should have known, that blizzards objective is to eventually work out and end the faction war because it stifles story progression of the game. Its what was said in an interview before.

They want to advance the story as a whole of the game and universe, not just rehash the same old same old. It made sense at the start, ill give you that, but now? its just bickering children in the back of a car. Blizzard has plans to move the story of wow and azeroth forward and im looking forward to seeing how it goes.

[Mehrunes]

They did it for the Horde overall - it wasn't for their own agenda i.e. like sylvanas just using to horde for her own agenda, including her bargain with Azshara and her wanting to control Death. That's a self-agenda, not wanting to make the Horde overall better for each race that's part of it.

Yes, sabotaging Horde's war is totes for the good of the Horde. What's better for a faction than helping its enemies defeat it more easily. Outright killing Horde members is also just splendid for the Horde.

[Arrashi]

Yes, sabotaging Horde's war is totes for the good of the Horde. What's better for a faction than helping its enemies defeat it more easily. Outright killing Horde members is also just splendid for the Horde.

Obviously baine and sadfang have galaxy brain horde patriotism we cannot comprehend.

[THEORACLE64]

Yes, sabotaging Horde's war is totes for the good of the Horde. What's better for a faction than helping its enemies defeat it more easily. Outright killing Horde members is also just splendid for the Horde.

It wasn't the Horde's war though, it was Sylvanas using the Horde for war for her own purposes. BfA was never just about Horde vs Alliance.

[masterjc]

It wasn't the Horde's war though, it was Sylvanas using the Horde for war for her own purposes. BfA was never just about Horde vs Alliance.

war is war. as soon as you participate in it,it becomes your war.

w/o real world issues - war reached Kul Tiras as soon as Sylvanas sent forces there. It was one of those reasons that pushed Kul Tirans back to Alliance. if Sylvanas would offer peace,I think Kathrine would agree on it (Priscila and Lord stormsong were also Azshara's pupets and priscila had very big influence on katrinas decisions)

meanwhile Vulpera or Sethrakk (those not allied with fanatics) had nothing to do woth this war. Vulpera werw forced into Horde because of bad writing.
they were helping those who helped them. and had nothing to do with Alliance. if blue team arrived first and helped them out Vulpera could become Blues thats all.


there are always those who are warmongers and those who prefer peace or profit.


some people are forced to take action.
and as soon as this cycle starts it becomes unbreakable

[THEORACLE64]

war is war. as soon as you participate in it,it becomes your war.

w/o real world issues - war reached Kul Tiras as soon as Sylvanas sent forces there. It was one of those reasons that pushed Kul Tirans back to Alliance. if Sylvanas would offer peace,I think Kathrine would agree on it (Priscila and Lord stormsong were also Azshara's pupets and priscila had very big influence on katrinas decisions)

meanwhile Vulpera or Sethrakk (those not allied with fanatics) had nothing to do woth this war. Vulpera werw forced into Horde because of bad writing.
they were helping those who helped them. and had nothing to do with Alliance. if blue team arrived first and helped them out Vulpera could become Blues thats all.


there are always those who are warmongers and those who prefer peace or profit.


some people are forced to take action.
and as soon as this cycle starts it becomes unbreakable

Yes, but saying that it was the "Horde's war" is untrue - that implies the entirety of the Horde wanted the war, they did not. Sylvanas wanted war and that's what she got.

[Super Dickmann]

Yes, but saying that it was the "Horde's war" is untrue - that implies the entirety of the Horde wanted the war, they did not. Sylvanas wanted war and that's what she got.

The vast majority of the Horde agreed with Sylvanas's arguments. That she was disingenuous about it doesn't change this. They only ditched her because she lied to them and didn't mean to actually do what she said she would.

To put it in other terms, suppose that Sylvanas was replaced with a different character called Joe. Joe does everything Sylvanas did with the caveat that he did it out of a genuine belief that it'd secure the Horde world domination. Faced with a rebel and Alliance army described as few in number and with Saurfang challenging Joe, Joe doesn't lose his shit because Saurfang's assessment of him is wrong. Instead he just deathbeams him and goes "lol, the horde rules, i love you all". Joe would retain his following and be supported in his world conquest and subsequent battle against N'zoth, as the inciting incident that caused the majority of the Horde to ditch Sylvanas wouldn't happen.

[The Butt Witch]

lol

Goblins lead by Gazlowe and Forsaken lead by Calia. Why does the Horde even exist?

Why is the Horde supposed to be evil?! Is it really against your head fiction that the Horde could just be a different group of people and not Saturday morning cartoon evil guys?!

[Swnem]

Sounds good. I like Gazlowe.

[bison91]

These writers must really hate the old warcraft fantasy universe. After they're done with this story, there will be nothing left.

Why shouldent there be anything new but always the same horde and alliance? its true that it does not have to be that horde goes downfall but, some differences should be already. its warcraft, not staticraft
I want to see modernized horde with good leaders and garroshes technologies.

[THEORACLE64]

The vast majority of the Horde agreed with Sylvanas's arguments. That she was disingenuous about it doesn't change this. They only ditched her because she lied to them and didn't mean to actually do what she said she would.

To put it in other terms, suppose that Sylvanas was replaced with a different character called Joe. Joe does everything Sylvanas did with the caveat that he did it out of a genuine belief that it'd secure the Horde world domination. Faced with a rebel and Alliance army described as few in number and with Saurfang challenging Joe, Joe doesn't lose his shit because Saurfang's assessment of him is wrong. Instead he just deathbeams him and goes "lol, the horde rules, i love you all". Joe would retain his following and be supported in his world conquest and subsequent battle against N'zoth, as the inciting incident that caused the majority of the Horde to ditch Sylvanas wouldn't happen.

Yes, but Sylvanas was the one who wanted it. She started it, we know she started it and we know she wanted it. It was very much fuelled by her and started by her actions, primarily burning down Teldrassil. That was her choice, even to the surprise of Nathanos. She completely started it and we know that was part of her plan, the Horde followed in suit once Teldrassil was burnt and the Alliance retaliated. A lot of the Horde didn't agree with her actions, with Saurfang being the primary one, so I honestly wouldn't say it was totally the Horde's war. It's quite obvious none of the leaders really wanted it.

[Super Dickmann]

Yes, but Sylvanas was the one who wanted it. She started it, we know she started it and we know she wanted it. It was very much fuelled by her and started by her actions, primarily burning down Teldrassil. That was her choice, even to the surprise of Nathanos. She completely started it and we know that was part of her plan, the Horde followed in suit once Teldrassil was burnt and the Alliance retaliated. A lot of the Horde didn't agree with her actions, with Saurfang being the primary one, so I honestly wouldn't say it was totally the Horde's war. It's quite obvious none of the leaders really wanted it.

Saurfang wanted it when he thought it was about a peace 50 years later. He only was against it after genocide, a sentiment that he's genuinely the one person to express. No one else was ever shown to give an iota of a shit, not even Baine. The giant army he was in charge of was not told any of the spiel Sylvanas did to him only that he could promise them a few days of glory taking over the night elves' lands. While the leaders may not have wanted it after 8.1 by their sentiments about Baine, the same can't be said about the majority of the Horde as a people who up to the moment of her exit were on her side to the point where she was apparently on the cusp of winning the war in 8.2.5. Shifting the blame to Sylvanas entirely is a sleight of hand that the material simply isn't able to sell. She had the Horde's backing to the point of outnumbering both elements of her opposition and it's not they who turned on her ultimately, at least not most of them, it was she who turned on them because she wanted to check off her failure for the patch since she didn't get the chance to fail in 8.2 and needed to make up for it.

[Paraka]

Why is the Horde supposed to be evil?! Is it really against your head fiction that the Horde could just be a different group of people and not Saturday morning cartoon evil guys?!

This just sounds like you're making out that he is defending Sylvanas and Gallywix.

I am all for Gazlowe, may actually be a unity among Goblins doing things for a profitable future for themselves than getting gutted by their old Trade Prince. He's been about and helped with much of Orgrimmar. He is also likely to have a Horde-like edge if tensions get worse again.

Calia... Calia is Anduin's self-righteous insert into the Horde. And her entire story isn't even making a lick of sense to build up her leadership role as a whole, let alone for the Forsaken. Though there is info directing she is just there for the new Dark Rangers recently resurrected.

Her "knowing the pain" Forsaken go through is evident enough this is ridiculous. And the fact Il'gynoth already gave her a villain bat is just outright awful.

May as well make Thrall die so we can have Medan.

[Itisamuh]

Why is the Horde supposed to be evil?! Is it really against your head fiction that the Horde could just be a different group of people and not Saturday morning cartoon evil guys?!

If the Horde isn't at least borderline evil, then they're just a reskinned Alliance and the faction war doesn't make any sense at all.

[Rendark]

With Gallywix gone there really is nothing good left in the horde. They fucked up everyone and killed off all the rest. I like Gazlowe but he shouldn't lead the horde goblins. Gallywix was perfect for that, being a amoral greedy dick was a great fit for the goblin leader. Now tho blizzard is so lazy with the story they don't want anything to have rough edges, only a smooth clean story. So now the forsaken and goblins are stripped of everything that makes them good.

[THEORACLE64]

Saurfang wanted it when he thought it was about a peace 50 years later. He only was against it after genocide, a sentiment that he's genuinely the one person to express. No one else was ever shown to give an iota of a shit, not even Baine. The giant army he was in charge of was not told any of the spiel Sylvanas did to him only that he could promise them a few days of glory taking over the night elves' lands. While the leaders may not have wanted it after 8.1 by their sentiments about Baine, the same can't be said about the majority of the Horde as a people who up to the moment of her exit were on her side to the point where she was apparently on the cusp of winning the war in 8.2.5. Shifting the blame to Sylvanas entirely is a sleight of hand that the material simply isn't able to sell. She had the Horde's backing to the point of outnumbering both elements of her opposition and it's not they who turned on her ultimately, at least not most of them, it was she who turned on them because she wanted to check off her failure for the patch since she didn't get the chance to fail in 8.2 and needed to make up for it.

Sure, but he didn't want the war that was occurring. It was clear Baine didn't agree with what Sylvanas was doing due to the fact he gave Derek back, along with everyone else after Sylvanas planned on executing Baine. This was all Sylvanas' war and a situation she crafted, that's as clear as day (primarily by her own admission). She did it for her agenda, so despite how it was shown, it was her war all along.