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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaine View Post
    Agree on most of this, its clear a lot of people would like to see flying removed, even though its fun to soar trough the skies, it also takes away the feeling of playing in a huge world
    Then don't fly. Why remove from the majority to appease the minority? Just use your ground mount if you want to, problem solved.

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  2. #62
    Scarab Lord ercarp's Avatar
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    Just give me Legion M+ back and I'll be happy. Fun dungeons and less trash. Also they need to do a major revamp of the seasonal affixes or get rid of them altogether.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Yes people did. Trust me, there were people flying over the zone on day 1. And those islands you mentioned? 3 of the worst things in the game. THere is a reason I never go back to any of them and it isn't even flying. Flying over them wouldn't make me go back.
    I loved them, though Especially Isle of Thunder had a great atmosphere.

    What was it specifically you didn't like about those?


  4. #64
    High Overlord TheProphetLord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Less emphasis on world quests with their pitiful rep. Raise the damn rep to 250+ like dailies of old gave.
    Yes! I completely agree with this if nothing else. I don’t mind world quests if they were so artificially weak with rep. I want to think I am making progress with rep.
    #TeamNecromancer #TeamDragonIsles

  5. #65
    i want new skills/abilities on my actual character, not on a item that will conveniently be removed at the end of the xpac.

  6. #66
    Elemental Lord
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    Flying available from launch.
    - Just make the requirement that you have to explore the whole area in full and do the main story line in each zone. This would make doing world quests and leveling alts far less painful. Its clear this is a huge demand from players, give it to us.
    I agree. it makes no sense to have to grind a rep to gain flying. If they continue to use Pathfinder system I would be ok with that but they should change it so that there is only one part and all you have to do is explore, do the questlines and maybe throw in a 'do 100 world quests' requirement too.

    Remove the Artifact/HoA type gear system.
    - While I enjoyed the artifact weapon system at first, it quickly became redundant and a grind system without an end. The same goes for HoA. These systems encourage no-lifing. Return to the days where raiding/high-end pvp provided bis.
    I think they do definitely need a change - we have had 2 expansions of that now, change is needed - I started playing in MoP and I definitely don't remember a grind in that game - the only grind was getting Black Prince rep. WoD was basically the same - Legion was when it started to become a real grind.

    Return reforging.
    - That will help upgrades even without getting warforge/titanforge procs.
    I never understood why they removed reforging in the first place. I thought the reason behind removing it was because people were getting an upgrade in a raid then having to reforge to make sure hit/expertise were capped. But in the same swoop they removed hit and expertise as well. Making the removal of reforging pointless.


    Take advantage of phasing tech more.
    - With both factions back on Kalimdor and The Earstern Kindoms, use phasing to make those zones scale up to max level. Make them original 1-119 And then from 120-125(new max level) actual zones, with the abilty to talk to chromie to visit the old world.
    nah I kinda like what they have done with the current system - making it scale according to the max level of the relevant expansion. what I would like to see are the zones and expacs streamlined - no more Kor'kron training in the Barrens, the Warchief back and forth removed. Levels 1 to 60 should reflect the current expansion, not Cata. Then when you hit 60, you can go to Caverns of Time and be transported back in time so you can do BC/Wrath/Cata/MoP/WoD/Legion etc. This would require a huge amount of work, which I am hoping will be reflected next expansion

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaith View Post

    No titanforging

    add tier sets

    add class abilities
    I think they should limit WF and TF to 5/10 lvls at best. Let people feel excited when they get an upgrade instead of disappointed that it didn't titanforge or get a random socket or random stat. The tier sets I think will return next expansion, the reason for removing them this expansion was pretty clear.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    I never understood why they removed reforging in the first place. I thought the reason behind removing it was because people were getting an upgrade in a raid then having to reforge to make sure hit/expertise were capped. But in the same swoop they removed hit and expertise as well. Making the removal of reforging pointless.
    i don't get your logic.

    Like, without reforging getting hit / exp was a massive pain because very often you were slightly below the cap or had to equip another item to go slightly above the cap, with Reforging, you aimed for the exact cap.
    As Hit / Exp were removed, Reforging lost a lot of relevance.

    The issue of reforging was that it was entirely solved by an external site, it's kinda strange that on one side you see people hating to consult Simcraft for every upgrade, but on the other side you have also people advocating for the return of Reforging.
    A site would tell you how to reforge, that's it.

    That aside, i actually have started to grow on the concept that there are in fact *bad* items for your spec, not everything needs to be good for your character, else you could remove secondary stats just entirely and make Ilvl the only thing that counts.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    i don't get your logic.

    Like, without reforging getting hit / exp was a massive pain because very often you were slightly below the cap or had to equip another item to go slightly above the cap, with Reforging, you aimed for the exact cap.
    As Hit / Exp were removed, Reforging lost a lot of relevance.

    The issue of reforging was that it was entirely solved by an external site, it's kinda strange that on one side you see people hating to consult Simcraft for every upgrade, but on the other side you have also people advocating for the return of Reforging.
    A site would tell you how to reforge, that's it.

    That aside, i actually have started to grow on the concept that there are in fact *bad* items for your spec, not everything needs to be good for your character, else you could remove secondary stats just entirely and make Ilvl the only thing that counts.
    there have been a couple of raids this expac alone where there have only been one drop per slot. being able to reforge would mean that even an item with your two worst secondary stats would be an upgrade because you can reforge your worst stat into your best one. this would make an item that is 5ilvl an upgrade, which is how it should be.

  9. #69
    Pandaren Monk Demsi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toffmcsoft View Post
    Here's the list I'd like to see:
    - Remove flying from the game
    - Level Squish to be lvl 50
    - Removal of an Titanforge and other RNG gear upgrades
    - No constant grind item, ie: HoA
    - Removal of stat scaling, make gear and lvls actually mean something again
    - Removal of the different raid tiers, set a regular mode and a hard mode. Different gear drops from each.
    - Realm consolidation and introduction of closed realms
    - Much longer time to lvl up, make this a journey again that takes at minimum 5 days /played
    - Removal of daily quest and daily rewards
    - Vast reduction in "instanced" content
    - World bosses which are hard to kill and require organized raid w/ very hard mechanics that also introduce RNG from the world and opposing factions
    - Ability to utilize all skills in pvp & pve, ie not having Cyclone only available in pvp
    - Removal of Warmode
    - Introduction of very long, tedious and harsh grinds that reward the player with and extremely epic item
    - Removing pvp stat scaling/squishing
    - Strip every player of their gold and non vanity item resources, force a full reset on the economy
    - Bring the economy back where players are forced to farm for items
    - Closed Realms
    Classic is already out my dude

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    there have been a couple of raids this expac alone where there have only been one drop per slot. being able to reforge would mean that even an item with your two worst secondary stats would be an upgrade because you can reforge your worst stat into your best one. this would make an item that is 5ilvl an upgrade, which is how it should be.
    Semi-quoting to cover your other post too.

    Reforging was removed because it became irrelevant as a concept.

    Many ideas are awesome on paper, for the clueless masses to feel all special and whatever other feeling they might get, everything in WoW is like this ever since Vanilla really.

    But then you have math, and math doesnt lie, and math plus coding calculates things very easily.

    So Math and Coding, made Reforging an obsolete thing instantly, but as everything else in World of Warcraft, not many used those methods at first.

    Now add a couple of years of knowledge spreading, and pretty much everyone was using external methods, and Blizzard ended up seeing that all reforging did, was make any item that had Hit/expertise completely irrelevant to exist, since Reforging was the way around it.

    So they did both, removed the mechanic that made them irrelevant, and also removed them from the game as it was pretty much a leftover RPG concept, which WoW was moving out from the favor of faster paced gameplay to fit the narrative of 2010+ gaming.

    I dont really agree with the removal of Hit/Expertise, but i understand why it happened and i dont really mind it in the end.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    It didn't really need no further proof, but this thread shows that ofc we will keep having endless threads, expansion after expansion why Blizzard "failed again".

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah, also I don't get the logic of removing a constant grind for an item like HoA and then asking to introduce a long, tedious, harsh grind for some epic item and forcing people to farm items again.
    Because the player that claims those things as fun, are players that cant achieve something that requires skill, but they can achieve it with time in order to feel special.

    Or some other excuse as to why they do not try harder content in the games they play, but Classic is the best game over.

    Especially this tom classic fanboy is the perfect example of a shit player, hiding behind time investment.
    Last edited by potis; 2019-10-12 at 11:40 AM.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Tumble View Post
    Flying available from launch.
    - Just make the requirement that you have to explore the whole area in full and do the main story line in each zone. This would make doing world quests and leveling alts far less painful. Its clear this is a huge demand from players, give it to us.
    FFS, remove flying or give it to us once we hit max level - account-wide. I don't know anyone who complained about having flying from the get go. It's only Blizz who seem to have a problem with it. Fuck this bullshit 1 year perma grind bullshit pathfinder thing - it's not a compromise, it's a shitty solution to a made up problem.

    Remove the Artifact/HoA type gear system.
    - While I enjoyed the artifact weapon system at first, it quickly became redundant and a grind system without an end. The same goes for HoA. These systems encourage no-lifing. Return to the days where raiding/high-end pvp provided bis.
    I was a fan of Artifacts initially. You know, when your points spent actually did something. Before we got to the point of grinding 24/7 to spend points into Concordance - or as it currently is, level up your Neck to gain nothing at all. I liked the initial idea of AP, but the constant grind for 4 years with barely any breaks is just ass. Keep the Artifact tree stuff, keep your AP, but make it so that you can be done with it after 1 or 2 weeks instead of having to do it for 2 fucking years.

    Return reforging.
    - That will help upgrades even without getting warforge/titanforge procs.
    That'd be too confusing, can't have that. Wouldn't want our players having to resort to raidbots, that'd be awful.

    Bring back a simpler time in wow.
    - With N'zoth, the last of the old gods, defeated, the hero's of azeroth return home to find that old foes have been building their army's and are once again a threat to the people of azeroth. Drained of their power received from the heart of azeroth to defeat N'zoth, they are mere mortals again weary from years of battling not only N'zoth and his minion but also the legion before.
    Fuck that. We killed gods, literal gods of the universe, I don't wanna fucking go back and deal with fucking rabbits terrorizing some random ass farmers.

    Take advantage of phasing tech more.
    - With both factions back on Kalimdor and The Earstern Kindoms, use phasing to make those zones scale up to max level. Make them original 1-119 And then from 120-125(new max level) actual zones, with the abilty to talk to chromie to visit the old world.
    Meh. Leveling in Westfall at lvl 119 is just dumb. It's just that: Dumb. So you're coming straight from SoO where you had to deal with an Old God infested Garrosh trying to end the world? Here, come back to Durotar and kill boars. The current system seems more than fine to me, maybe do some tweaks for certain expansion ranges, but that's about it.

    Bring back the old pvp gear system.
    - Allow players to acquire honor/conquest and purchase the bits they want. The ability to grind bgs for a weekend and get basic pvp gear is far and above optimal to the system we have now. At the start of each season, let players buy last seasons best sub 2200 conquest gear with honor, while maybe putting small time gates on weapons as an incentive to pvp each season.
    Everyone seemed to be happy with this system for 10 years. And that's why we can't have it back. Much like with flying we need to find stupid compromises to non-existent problems just so that they can keep their subscription-draining models in.

    Dungeons and raids.
    -Shortly after we return to Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms we find our cities under constant threat from the army's that have been building while we are gone. Major cities could be dungeons with each capitol, SW and Org, being the end raids for the first major content patch.
    Can't wait till the Defias start sieging Stormwind and pose a credible threat. Or Orgrimmar being overrun from the very credible threat of WC's raptors.
    I also don't wanna fucking raid Orgrimmar or any of our cities in general anymore. I'd like to spend the next 2 years of my content... not in reused asset zones.

    - Use the same tech from BoD to change horde into alliance and alliance into horde when you are in the opposing factions city.
    Let us keep our racials though.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    there have been a couple of raids this expac alone where there have only been one drop per slot. being able to reforge would mean that even an item with your two worst secondary stats would be an upgrade because you can reforge your worst stat into your best one. this would make an item that is 5ilvl an upgrade, which is how it should be.
    I think the issue is here that only one item per slot exists, you just have no choice as far items is concerned if only one proper item exists (at least within a scenario solely focused on raiding).

    On top of that, it doesn't even work if the delta between stat values is too big, unless you could reforge stats by a massive amount.
    You see that with rings currently, you have such massive swings in terms of value if a ring has the proper stats compared to one with bad stats, that doesn't get fixed by Reforging, that only works if the delta between stats is small.

    I think Reforging worked in an era where you had caps, hit, expertise and haste, there it made sense to have some tool that enables one to directly aim at a certain number of stats, without it, it's just another hurdle for Raidbots to solve, nothing more.

  13. #73
    Having content at launch.

    LOoking bakc on bfa i feel this is the byfar biggest offender. When a new expansion is released you expect to have a ton of stuff to do. but this time aroun (and in legion and in wod) we really didnt have much of anything to do.

    Lets take a look at all the content blizzard have decided to gate to a later release date. in the latest expansions.

    Arenas season.
    Honor/conquest rewards.
    Mythic+ dungeons
    Raids. (all 4 difficulties).
    Reputation farming post exalted.
    Warfronts
    Campaign Qline and in some cases dungeons locked behind rep that you cant farm for. Only wait for.
    Invasions/assaults


    So.. there really isnt much to do at launch. And i want that to change. I want more stuff to do at launch.

    I can get raids and arena seasons being gated ONE week. But all the others should be there at launch.

    Now we had most of these gated 4 weeks. and some up to 3 months (invasions/paragon rep).
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisisvacant View Post
    Why should PVE players get an edge over PVP players though? Without resilience, PVE becomes the actual gear grinding mechanism.

    Even if iLVL inflates in PVP, it still does not fix what you're suggesting. That is nearly the same exact concept as resilience - it makes PVPers tougher in PVP. Which seems pretty appropriate.

    What has never been appropriate is that, even since vanilla, raid gear has always given folks a definite clear edge... With the exception being the time resilience was around, which was the ONLY time that PVP gear mattered.
    I'm not arguing that PvE should have an edge over PvP. THat's bad and should never be the case. I am not going to parrot the same thing over but I'll try to explain the difference.

    If PvP gear automatically has a higher item level in PvP than PvE gear, then PvP players have an edge in PvP content, but not as dramatically as it would be with resilience, where without it you'd die effortlessly or damn near. Furthermore, with resilience has to be the source of PvP damage reduction, meaning PvE players would be like brittle glass.

    So you'd have to craft a piece of shit set of rare PvP gear and get steamrolled by everyone and their grandmother, or go in with PvE gear and die just as hard, for days if not weeks until you have a full set of PvP honor gear. Or you could go in with your casual PvE gear (or even hardcore BiS PvE raid gear which would NOT be better than conquest gear in PvP) and stand something of a chance against players who have PvP gear already because there isn't a game design with resilience as a primary source of PvP damage reduction that arbitrarily makes your gear totally worthless.

    Basically, you aren't put at such an extreme disadvantage in PvP for not already having honor gear that you can still fight to some degree against other players that do, and there isn't a statistic punishing you for trying PvP gear in anything other than PvP gear, forcing an alternate progression system that you essentially have to start from scratch on.

    I mean I don't see what's wrong with giving PvP gear a higher item level in PvP and having their advantage through that. You didn't even comment on this. Are you ignoring this or do you think it's not a dramatic enough edge? Because if it's the latter, I am not going to spend any more time on this discussion, as there is no scenario where I would be okay with that, period. I suspect the former since you didn't even bring it up and are arguing that PvE players shouldn't have an edge in PvP, which I already argued is a bad thing and agreed with on multiple occasions.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    It didn't really need no further proof, but this thread shows that ofc we will keep having endless threads, expansion after expansion why Blizzard "failed again".

    - - - Updated - - -





    Yeah, also I don't get the logic of removing a constant grind for an item like HoA and then asking to introduce a long, tedious, harsh grind for some epic item and forcing people to farm items again. So..basically remove one grind for something far worse?

    But I am sure that guy can explain things to us and how it all would make sense.
    The HoA grind applies to the entire community where the other grind would only benefits players who wanted to do it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tumble View Post
    Then don't fly. Why remove from the majority to appease the minority? Just use your ground mount if you want to, problem solved.
    Flying should be removed from the game 100%.
    Having to actually spend time traveling is what the MMO needs again.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Tumble View Post
    Then don't fly. Why remove from the majority to appease the minority? Just use your ground mount if you want to, problem solved.
    Flying isnt option. Also majority of players are classic players. Retail audience at this moment is minority and so far it it looks retail playerbase will stay as minority since classic wow is not losing players at all and wont continue to do so for several months.

  17. #77
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Flying isnt option. Also majority of players are classic players. Retail audience at this moment is minority and so far it it looks retail playerbase will stay as minority since classic wow is not losing players at all and wont continue to do so for several months.
    That separation is stupid.

  18. #78
    For me:

    1) Player Housing or some other sort of alternative progression system that isn't based strictly on player power alone, but adds more RPG-esque elements to the game for RPing and immersion purposes.
    2) New Class (I would prefer a more "edgy" class, but tinkers would be fine)
    3) Island AI expanded to open world content
    4) Overhaul of tank roles and mechanics (Tanking is incredibly boring and unimaginative and has been since the games inception). The role of a tank needs to be completely re-thought and rebuilt from the ground up.
    5) Some sort of solo-able goal to strive for at launch that rewards new cosmetic / armor / weapon mogs (Mage Tower 2.0)
    6) Make legacy loot apply to ALL expacs prior to the current[/QUOTE]

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Flying isnt option. Also majority of players are classic players. Retail audience at this moment is minority and so far it it looks retail playerbase will stay as minority since classic wow is not losing players at all and wont continue to do so for several months.
    You got a source on that?
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  20. #80
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    Less bitching from the community. That would be a change i would like to see next xpack

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