J. Allen Brack: Regarding Last Weekend’s Hearthstone Grandmasters Tournament

[Nachturnal]

It's called bullshit outrage culture because people don't latch on to one thing and fight for it, no, it's not about giving opinions and such. It's bullshit because outrage culture is about getting super steaming mad at one thing until the next thing comes along and you completely forget about it and latch onto the next thing. Last week NBA, this week Blizzard, next week who knows, maybe Trump will make another blunder and it'll shift to him.

But it's something. Would I like more action? Absolutely. But I'll take some form of stance taking.

I deleted all of Blizzard's games. Choosing for myself that I can't support their actions. I just think people should be allowed to feel and express opinion and take a stance on something no matter how small. Cancelling subscriptions and deleting games may not mean anything in the grand scheme of things or help those in Hong Kong, but it at least gives me some form of comfort knowing that I took a stance in some way. Corporations are so massive and wield so much power, people forget you can just not give your money to them.

I completely understand your point, but I'm personally not just forgetting it and moving on to the outrage of the week. When we can only do so much, I'll take the options presented to me.

[Muajin76]

It's not nonsense, people in this very thread have said they have no idea why it started just that China is being inhumane, which is true. But must don't know about the murder and the bill and what it was for, or why Hong Kong citizens are worried about it, or the fact that it is currently shelved.

I imagine it started with the protests and the situation in HK, that started over a bill that didn't get passed. *which apparently outraged A LOT of HK'ers* I'm surprised that the same pov towards this bill didn't recieve equal thoughts on the mainland side of the country. This is obviously a very touchy subject and for those that do business with China are avoiding the situation by not supporting it, regardless of how inhumane. I live in Beijing, you don't really see inhumane issues spring up here on a grand scale. The murder you speak of was a HK guy that killed his gf in Taiwan, you'd think the HK people would be enraged towards him and want him punished...doesn't make sense.

[Relapses]

I don't understand this. Why does it have to be bullshit? Why can't someone have an opinion and choose to express it how they feel like? In a world filled with all sorts of injustices among a populace of apathy, why is it bullshit to state that you don't agree with the way a company does something. I'm not from Hong Kong, I don't know what they're going through, but I understand the general idea of what's happening and what they're hoping to achieve.

There's so much wrong in the world and we do very little to stop it, and I get it, we all have our lives to live, we're comfortable with the pleasures we enjoy when we don't have to deal with the consequences of our comforts. But at the least in my powerlessness, can I vote with my wallet to boycott and not support something I find morally reprehensible? Why does it have to be bullshit? Yeah I'm not out protesting or fighting to make things better, I want to, I do little things in my daily life to at least put some good out in the world. What's wrong with some outrage if it's for the benefit of someone else? Or at the least doing something to at least wipe yourself of some personal guilt?

Guilt? What guilt?! This has nothing to do with the humanitarian crisis in China and everything to do with a company simply enforcing a fucking rule that existed to prevent this exact shitstorm from ever happening in the first place. Yet here we have page after page of players smugly professing their haughty moral superiority because "China = BAD" and "Blizzard loves money." The two have so very little to do with each other but it seems to me that people are more concerned with jumping on the "fuck Blizzard" bandwagon than actually assessing the fucking situation and not drawing insecere, emotionallty fueled conclusions about shit that has nothing to do with what's going on. This forum was bad enough with the cynical Blizzard hate before this bullshit happened, now we just have the same people who hated the company before gloating about how Blizzard's apparent monetarily-driven decision justifies whatever dumb fucking opinion they have about the company.

Meanwhile, I'm just here like... Holy shit, is it such an awful thing to support a company that creates games that I personally enjoy?

[Nachturnal]

I imagine it started with the protests and the situation in HK, that started over a bill that didn't get passed. *which apparently outraged A LOT of HK'ers* I'm surprised that the same pov towards this bill didn't recieve equal thoughts on the mainland side of the country. This is obviously a very touchy subject and for those that do business with China are avoiding the situation by not supporting it, regardless of how inhumane. I live in Beijing, you don't really see inhumane issues spring up here on a grand scale. The murder you speak of was a HK guy that killed his gf in Taiwan, you'd think the HK people would be enraged towards him and want him punished...doesn't make sense.

I believe it has more to do with the fact the bill proposed at the time was a piece of legislation that would allow Hong Kong authorities to detain and extradite citizens into Chinese jurisdiction undermining Hong Kong's autonomy. Especially the worry being that China would abuse this to punish dissenting opinion and mudding the waters of the "one country, two systems". China doesn't exactly act in good faith afterall.

It's more complicated I'm sure, but that's the general idea.

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Guilt? What guilt?! This has nothing to do with the humanitarian crisis in China and everything to do with a company simply enforcing a fucking rule that existed to prevent this exact shitstorm from ever happening in the first place. Yet here we have page after page of players smugly professing their haughty moral superiority because "China = BAD" and "Blizzard loves money." The two have so very little to do with each other but it seems to me that people are more concerned with jumping on the "fuck Blizzard" bandwagon than actually assessing the fucking situation and not drawing insecere, emotionallty fueled conclusions about shit that has nothing to do with what's going on. This forum was bad enough with the cynical Blizzard hate before this bullshit happened, now we just have the same people who hated the company before gloating about how Blizzard's apparent monetarily-driven decision justifies whatever dumb fucking opinion they have about the company.

Meanwhile, I'm just here like... Holy shit, is it such an awful thing to support a company that creates games that I personally enjoy?

The guilt of reading constant news of injustice and just shrugging it off as, "well it's the way of the world, someone better than I will take care of it". I'm speaking personally. I understand them enforcing a rule, but I believe their handling of it was terrible. Taking the money back, firing the two casters who didn't have anything to do with the opinions expressed by the Grandmaster and the post from the Chinese Hearthstone Twitter expressing the "honor of China".

I'm not stating I'm morally superior than anyone else or acting holier-than-thou, but I can't in good conscience continue monetarily supporting a company that I feel was already losing quality but now has the added bonus of not representing the principles of the nation it's based in for the sake of money and not offending the feelings of another sovereign nation.

There's definitely nothing wrong with supporting a company you still enjoy. That's totally on you and I say have it dude! If what you care about is the product and it's still being delivered to you at a quality you enjoy, by all means, that's your prerogative and it doesn't reflect anything on your character. But personally speaking, I'm just fed up with doing nothing. I'm not concerned with the perceptions of what the internet is like or what it's doing, circlejerks, bandwagon etc.. I'm just doing what I feel is best for me.

[Yuuki Asuna]

I can understand why some people would delete their Accounts and at the same time i can't.

I put a lot of time and effort into WoW and some other Blizzard games, i like them (yes, i even like BFA, the first patch azerite was bad tho), so deleting my Account to "send a message" would never be an option for me. I also met a lot of great people in that game, so this would also not sit right with me, since i also play those games with them still over all those years. Im disappointed in Blizzard, but i also see their view point. By view point i mean, that you shouldn't use their official streams as a platform for any kind of outside the game stuff (which is kinda hypocritical, since they did all the other political motivated things, but you can argue that they aren't).

People say the Hong Kong happenings are human rights and not politics, but this is wrong, this is also politics, especially for China themselves. They want to give off the image of a stable country and if you have an entire city like Hong Kong saying "no" to their entire political system and actively go against them with protests, which aren't even allowed in China, then they get a political problem. We're all aware of China, but since that Blitzchung statement and his punishment, it just shows more and more. Besides the NBA.

There were multiple problems for Blizzard here: Their own rules, the tension in Hong Kong/China and this was on a Taiwanese stream, that was for China and a player from Hong Kong said this. They obviously don't want to lose their right to sell in China, makes sense. But they're an US based international gaming company and their first values should be their values of their own country and the ones they've as a company even engraves at a statue, but from the outside and how sefer the punishment was, it all just looked like they did this for China, which i still believe is the truth.

People also call out how hypocritical they were with not punishing the university team, but come on people, they would've lost there and then no matter what they chose to do. Punish them and they will look even more like China boot lickers, but not punshing them also made them look really bad, it was a lose lose situation for them. They couldn't please the people there no matter what they did, so they decided to simply do nothing about it.

They also just recently stopped selling Mei statues in the shop now, which does make them look bad again, since now it seems like they try to please China more, sad.

Side note: Some people looked forward to a Diablo 4, but now rather want to play Path of Exile, i kinda want to remind you, while GGG hasn't done anything like that, talking politics in their chat is banned since a few weeks now and they're nearly 100% Tencent owned (they will be fully owned over the next ~6 years), which is a huge China company with part into the social credit stuff, while they only have 5% into Blizzard. So, if you do this to boycott Blizzard and try to stop giving money to China in sense too, well, you're doing it wrong with such statements.

I completely agree with everything you said. Sometimes I don't think people think. Blizzard is in a tough position and I don't think they can really do anything without people bringing their pitchforks. And I also don't want people to delete their account over raging. Tbh, I can't do that either because of all the memories and friendships I've made. Plus I still play to make new memories. WoW is one of the only games I really enjoy and I definitely won't be giving it up any time soon.

[Muajin76]

I believe it has more to do with the fact the bill proposed at the time was a piece of legislation that would allow Hong Kong authorities to detain and extradite citizens into Chinese jurisdiction undermining Hong Kong's autonomy. Especially the worry being that China would abuse this to punish dissenting opinion and mudding the waters of the "one country, two systems". China doesn't exactly act in good faith afterall.

It's more complicated I'm sure, but that's the general idea.

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Pretty much. I think Liam has the people's best interest and safety at heart, but HK people fear that mainland China would abuse this on a whim whenever they feel it neccessary.

[shadowmatrix]

That's just nonsense and you know it. You don't need to be very well informed about the reasons why hundreds of thousands of civilians are protesting the actions of their government to know that the government is probably doing something wrong and express solidarity with those people.

Information is very important for any political or civil protest action, you are saying to blindly trust a bunch of strangers just because they said something the government doesn't like. What happens when the protesters are wrong, were lied to, or have an ulterior motive to protect a killer? Who are they fighting, what was the catalyst, what is the goal, what is the most likely outcome, etc.

[Onikaroshi]

Pretty much. I think Liam has the people's best interest and safety at heart, but HK people fear that mainland China would abuse this on a whim whenever they feel it neccessary.

And you can't really blame them, the whole situation is messy. As it stands no one is happy and a murder is just chilling free, not even a supposed murder, I guess he actually said he did it.

[ringpriest]

If you claim that Blizzard saying, "We are very angered and disappointed at what happened at the event... We will always respect and defend the pride of our country" is anything but PRC propaganda, you're a sock (either de jure or de facto).

That is not what they have said.

It absolutely is.


Get your own translation if you don't trust mine or reddit's - this is why people are so angry; Blizzard is simultaneously saying "No politics!" while acting as a propaganda organ for the PRC, over a tournament held in the ROC. It would be difficult for them to be any more hypocritical!

[Nite92]

Don't know how many times it needs to be said but. it's not a political opinion, unless you're willing to say you're actually against freedom and democracy. Someone stood up for civil rights, NOT political opinion-spreading. Civil rights and he defense of them should not be met with punishment, and definitely not while hiding behind some bogus excuse calling it "political opinion". Last time a country in the west did that we got Nazi Germany.

I don't about that. China is bad, but Hitler, that's a bit too far, isn't it.

Even if it were, that is just not the medium for that. I really believe, that the world is grim enough, and I don't really want to hear about it, when I chill and watch 2hrs of a HS stream.

[Raven]

It absolutely is.


Get your own translation if you don't trust mine or reddit's - this is why people are so angry; Blizzard is simultaneously saying "No politics!" while acting as a propaganda organ for the PRC, over a tournament held in the ROC. It would be difficult for them to be any more hypocritical!

But thats also from the Weibo account, which is run by Netease not Blizzard, if that post is the only thing your angry over, your actually angry at Blizzard for a post they didnt even make.

Sure you can be upet that they work with chinese company, or that they should have handled it alot better which they should, but what the Weibo account said wasnt from Blizzard.

[Burning4]

I was enjoying Classic. I got my mount and everything. I was feeling really good. Then all this happened and it has tainted my fun. I had to cancel my subscription, because I don't want to play now.

I guess all I can do now is kick back and laugh at the shit show.

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

But thats also from the Weibo account, which is run by Netease not Blizzard, if that post is the only thing your mad over, your actually mad at Blizzard for a post they didnt even make.

This is not the case. Netease owns a part of actiblizz and they run blizzard's operations in China. It's like saying the paris HQ of blizzard is not a part of blizzard, and that their twitter is somehow not a part of blizzard. There are no things like twitter or "non-netease" blizzard forums, that is why it is in heavily monitored Weibo.

[Onikaroshi]

This is not the case. Netease owns a part of actiblizz and they run blizzard's operations in China. It's like saying the paris HQ of blizzard is not a part of blizzard, and that their twitter is somehow not a part of blizzard. There are no things like twitter or "non-netease" blizzard forums, that is why it is in heavily monitored Weibo.

Netease doesn't own part of acti-blizz, that's Tencent, Netease is their distribution and communication "filter" to the chinese population. Netease HAD to post that or they would be in big shit with the Chinese gov't.

All outside companies require a Chinese "filter" to do business in china.

[tripleh]

One way to get back at blizzard is to get it banned in China. By using its own characters like Mei in overwatch and others. Gotta keep creating the memes using there own characters against them. Only way for blizz to learn a lesson is to hit them were it hurts in the pocket books.

[Ellger]

Obviously you're the one having a hard time grasping things. You responded to my comment saying he didn't say something, I provided the quote and now you changed your stance as if I was saying something else. Good job.

What, where ?? I responded to you saying there was nothing divise about what he did, which is not true. My stance about this has never changed, keep politics off broadcasts, there are proper avenues for those things and gaming broadcasts that are meant to include everyone are one not of them.

[Release]

What, where ?? I responded to you saying there was nothing divise about what he did, which is not true. My stance about this has never changed, keep politics off broadcasts, there are proper avenues for those things and gaming broadcasts that are meant to include everyone are one not of them.

Ok sure, so why am I subjected to all the LGBT crap in the OW league? Because that political opinion is currently popular in the West and makes blizzard money. You can't have your fucking cake and eat it too.

[Kayze]

Way to show it to the evil corporate overlords! Capitalism is, after all, the root of all evil and lord knows a fucking video game where people slay internet dragons for imaginary loot... well, the internet justice crusade has to start somewhere, right? The safety of your happy little keyboard must be nice. Why actually do something that'll make a difference when you can use mean words on the internet to make the faceless corporation feel like it made a boo-boo?



inb4 somebody accuses me of supporting China's regime because I dare to have a dissenting opinion about bullshit outrage culture

Funny thing is you're trying to seem better than other people repeatedly yet have a failed streaming account that you still promote here and you brag about predicting "the future" with the most vague statements. Wow, you're super cool kid. I especially love where you don't even understand capitalism since I literally voiced support for capitalism in the reply you quoted. And people are doing more than words, you ignorant tool

Seems someone else is trying to be the keyboard warrior here, eh? Hopefully you can keep up the good fight so your fragile need of peer validation doesn't harm your enjoyment of a video game!

[Kolvarg]

may not mean anything in the grand scheme of things or help those in Hong Kong, but it at least gives me some form of comfort knowing that I took a stance in some way.

That's exactly the issue with outrage culture. Even those who don't forget about it and move to another outrage the next week, accomplish nothing, just taking a stance simply to feel better about themselves. It's like feeling like a proud helpful citizen for shaming and berating all the people who stood idly when an old woman needed help crossing the road - meanwhile the old lady is still there without help. It's about as useful of a stance as sending thoughts and prayers on a Facebook post.

Obviously everyone can do whatever the hell they want, it's just you're denying yourself games you presumably enjoy, and encouraging others to do the same (perhaps not you, but many others) with the intent of hurting Blizzard on a finnancial level. And if that is successful, guess who's gonna suffer for it? The suits in the top that make the corporate decisions to appease China? And all that for what?

I just think ultimately, if you do care about the issue, there are other ways - much more reasonable and more likely to have a positive impact - to try and make a stance. Like signing petitions and/or writing to your local/national representatives, and international institutions, to stop pressuring companies to take deals with China, to investigate police brutality and abuse of human rights, etc.

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Ok sure, so why am I subjected to all the LGBT crap in the OW league? Because that political opinion is currently popular in the West and makes blizzard money. You can't have your fucking cake and eat it too.

Doesn't every person and every company have the right to choose to participate or to be neutral in any given issue? Because they support LGBT they are obliged to take a political stance in every political/social issue and can never be neutral?

Do you also go shout at charities for homeless or for sick people "ok you care about homeless/cancer patients, but why don't you care about human rights in China!?" ?

Yes, on a corporate level it's nothing more than marketing. A business decision to attempt to increase profit. How is a big company in a capitalism world trying to make the most money they can a revelation? Remaining neutral regarding China is a business decision to their best interest, because they have more to gain remaining neutral than they have supporting either side.

The real question is: Why shouldn't they remain neutral? They're a videogame developing business. Choosing to "go against" China will accomplish nothing short of cutting their prospects on an emerging market, and changing nothing about China apart from potentially not having Blizzard games there anymore.

It's governments and international institutions that should be pressuring China, not videogame companies.

[Kayze]

Sounds like their *every voice counts* motto needs to be altered in light of this recent situation. :P

"Every Voice Counts*

*Not applicable in all regions"