Proposals for a future justice system that might allow us to achieve a 0% recidivism

[Mythic-RaidLead]

So, we sometimes discuss politics in our guild, and we do come up with some interesting ideas. We want a world that is extremely safe from violence. But sadly for whatever reason we have high recidivism rates in my country (United States), we tried making the prison conditions harsher and longer sentencing but our recidivism rates for whatever reason are still high.

Basically we want to forcibly reprogram the worst criminals in such a way that they can never ever re-offend. We want this program to be an addition to their prison sentence. And some kind of regulation to keep forcible reprogramming limited to only those convicted of these crimes: Murder (both second and first degree, Rape, Grievous Assault, Torture). Someone driving 120 MPH in an 80 area would not qualify. We are only interested in enacting this extreme form of rehabilitation on monsterous people.

I believe we need to think outside the box. Right now there is research into neural link. This could enable virtual reality like nothing before. Personally, I'd love fully immersive VR and being able to have a virtual body that would feel just as real as this one. I would love a matrix like world. It is amazing what the future of gaming holds. fully immersive hardcore raiding would be amazing. I also believe neural link can allow us to send messages without typing, to allow us also to control a robotic body via Brain Computer Interface. There are said also to be medical benefits to this.

One must wonder what the future of neural link would be, and the future of brain surgery could be. I do wonder, if we ever get to the point in technology that we can literally alter thinking patterns of a person, could it be used to reprogram all violent criminals in such a way that they would be morally unable to commit another violent crime? Think about it, assuming you are a normal person, there is *ZERO* circumstance that could happen in this world that would lead you to commit rape. However, some criminals do rape, the idea is IN ADDITION to whatever prison sentence they receive, they would also be forcibly reprogrammed so that they would be mentally unable to commit rape ever again, in the same way most of us are mentally unable to commit rape ever.

Now apply this logic to all very serious crimes.

This is the idea that me and other guild officers and other guildies have been discussing. I'm pretty baffled that so little has been talked about for this idea. It's humane and does not violate human rights since we are only doing it to rapists, murderers, and grievous assaulters. A lot of states already chemically castrate pedophile rapists so forcibly mentally reprogramming should be considered a humane form of punishment since it's a form of punishment centered around rehabilitation.

I throw this suggestion with co workers and family and they think it's a pretty good idea as well.

What are your thoughts? Please do not bring up about how this violates human rights. They didn't respect the rights of their victims, and I don't think it's cruel, I think it's very humane.

[s_bushido]

How about no.

[Daedius]

Ireland has this fantastic revolving door justice system where violent criminals with 250+ convictions are walking about free, while people not paying their TV license can get jail time.

Doing us wonders!

[Mythic-RaidLead]

How about no.

I want to be safe. We come up with these ideas through a technocratic thinking process.

[Azadina]

Do you volunteer yourself as test subject to try if it works? Wait, scratch that, you wanted to force without consent. Let's rephrase: how would you like being forced to be the test subject?

[Mythic-RaidLead]

Do you volunteer yourself as test subject to try if it works? Wait, scratch that, you wanted to force without consent. Let's rephrase: how would you like being forced to be the test subject?

I'm an innocent person, so obviously no. But we should start with the worst criminals. I suggest using a pedophile with dozens of victims first to see if it works. We may also start with serial killers. Doesn't really matter. Progress requires sacrifice. It's regrettable that some will be irreparably damaged by what I proposed by that is the price of fucking progress. I'm pretty sure Iraqi Freedom carried plenty of collateral damage but it was absolutely fucking worth it to liberate an entire country from a tyrant. Good think bleeding hearts are not in charge of our criminal justice system and military. Tough strong men are in charge and they will do what needs to be done.

Besides, we are not doing this to any ordinary criminal, we want to do this to monsters to see if we can fix them.

I'm a utilitarian, the greater good is all that I care about.

[s_bushido]

I want to be safe. We come up with these ideas through a technocratic thinking process.

A government having the ability to reprogram the minds of its citizens for its own purposes is about as far from "safe" as it gets. And if there were a criminal justice system perfect enough so that there wasn't even a chance of wrongful convictions, then there would be no need for this sort of gross ethical violation in the first place.

[Mythic-RaidLead]

A government having the ability to reprogram the minds of its citizens for its own purposes is about as far from "safe" as it gets. And if there were a criminal justice system perfect enough so that there wasn't even a chance of wrongful convictions, then there would be no need for this sort of gross ethical violation in the first place.

It's not unethical if it's done to rapists, murderers and grievous assaulters.
Even if we are 100% good at ending wrongful convictions, the recidivism will still not be 0%. I want to get a recidivism of 0% w/out the death penalty.
8th amendment of the constitution will prevent forcible mental reprogramming to be used in non serious crimes. The punishment must fit the crime so to speak.
Some states already do forced hormone therapy onto rapists, and it's done to sort of reprogram their thinking and this is legal. Why not go to the next level?

[Vash The Stampede]

I don't believe in jail time as it does nothing to benefit anyone. I'd rather we focus on rehabilitation and I've come up with some crazy futuristic methods of rehabilitation. If a person is caught with murder or known to be physically harmful to others then I would do a genetic test to see if this person has genes that make them prone to violence. Something like the MAOA gene or Warrior gene and having it removed in favor of a more empathetic gene that would allow these people to be reintroduced into society. For rapists I would have them turned into women as a method to teach them to live the life of a woman, so they can learn to understand their side of the situation. Of course it wouldn't be done like today's transgender do it, as it's not very effective medical science. Something futuristic that can be done with 3 months to a year to turn them into a complete woman and then reintroduce them back to society.

My ideas require tech that doesn't exist but it's a fun thought experiment anyway.

[Azadina]

I'm an innocent person, so obviously no. But we should start with the worst criminals. I suggest using a pedophile with dozens of victims first to see if it works. We may also start with serial killers. Doesn't really matter. Progress requires sacrifice. It's regrettable that some will be irreparably damaged by what I proposed by that is the price of fucking progress. I'm pretty sure Iraqi Freedom carried plenty of collateral damage but it was absolutely fucking worth it to liberate an entire country from a tyrant. Good think bleeding hearts are not in charge of our criminal justice system and military. Tough strong men are in charge and they will do what needs to be done.

Besides, we are not doing this to any ordinary criminal, we want to do this to monsters to see if we can fix them.

I'm a utilitarian, the greater good is all that I care about.

Greater good is all you care about? Then you should have exactly zero problems with sacrificing yourself as the first subject. The fact that you do have a problem with it, seems to indicate degree of cowardice, as well as lying.

[Mythic-RaidLead]

There have been some pretty neat ideas. We really need to consider how amazing it could be if the re-offend rates for these heinous crimes drops to 0%. Think about the victims of these violent crimes. The perpetrators and their right to "avoid implants" are irrelevant. If I was a victim, I'd love to have the perpetrator forcibly implanted against his or her will.

[PC2]

I think they would need to make much more progress in psychology and neuroscience in order to eliminate recidivism.

The neural links they are developing are only relaying input-output signals. You can't really "reprogram" the brain with IO signals unless you first understand how the brain creates and represents knowledge in the first place. Neuroscience hasn't made much progress.

Do you volunteer yourself as test subject to try if it works? Wait, scratch that, you wanted to force without consent. Let's rephrase: how would you like being forced to be the test subject?

Indeed, consent is needed.

[Mythic-RaidLead]

I think they would need to make much more progress in psychology and neuroscience in order to eliminate recidivism.

The neural links they are developing are only relaying input-output signals. You can't really "reprogram" the brain with IO signals unless you first understand how the brain creates and represents knowledge in the first place. Neuroscience hasn't made much progress.



Indeed, consent is needed.

You can threaten them to get consent. Threaten them with life-long institutionalization at the end of the prison sentence in order to receive consent. Indeed this is what we've done with the worst sex offenders. In return for freedom, they must remain on hormone therapy to reduce their sex drive to more controllable levels. This is constitutional. We can simply take it to the next level. Perhaps getting rid of dangerous genes if that is the cause of their behavior, or doing something with their mind to make them more like us.

Yeah ideally I'd like to pull this off. But it will be a while before this great system can be implemented. It will be a humane system. When I say I want it forced, I don't mean it automatically has to be forced. I'm just ok with forcing monsters to accept moral enhancements. They've given up human rights when they committed rape, murder, or grievous assault. They can be given back human rights if they agree to become human once more, and that is to accept moral enhancements.

But forcing them to consent is also IMHO ok. Though I'd like to see if there is a way to legally physically force them into whatever treatment needed.

[Flutterguy]

Technically if you punish all crime with death, you have 0% recidivism.

[PC2]

@Mythic-RaidLead

The idea of "forcing consent" is a misunderstanding of what it means to consent...

It's possible some people are so damaged that they don't have the competence to consent to anything. There could be special cases where it's okay to violate consent.

[Mythic-RaidLead]

@Mythic-RaidLead

The idea of "forcing consent" is a misunderstanding of what it means to consent...

It's possible some people are so damaged that they don't have the competence to consent to anything. There could be special cases where it's okay to violate consent.

Oh, ok I misunderstood then. Yeah, all convicted murderers, rapists, and grievous assaulter would be those special cases. Ideally shortly after sentencing, they would be forced into the treatment proposed, than sent to prison for their allocated prison term. We need prison still as a form of deterrence even if the treatment is powerful enough to make them no longer a threat.

[Calfredd]

Nice try derpkitteh but you don't fool me.

[Pannonian]

That reads like a 17 year old watching Clockwerk Orange for the first time...

[Flarelaine]

A Clockwork Orange says hi.

[Mythic-RaidLead]

A Clockwork Orange says hi.

I will admit it has some good ideas. I do think it's a cautionary tale about how the methods can be misused, which is why we need to move forward very carefully.