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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    I think 7.3 retconned demon regeneration. Without Argus demons can't regenerate?
    They can still regenerate in the Twisting Nether as well as far as i know. But it takes much longer.

    In regards to the battle, i think Chaos Grom is heavily underestimated here by a lot of posters if it is melee only. His weapon is really dangerous, he is a great fighter and on massive juice from a demon lord. Of course, all this stuff is true for Illidan as well. So it comes down to individual strength which is hard to guess and it could go either way between them.

    I think in pure physical strength Illidan as well as Grom might be above the Lich King. Chaos Grom also should be way more powerful compared to Dranosh. Groms weapon is also way stronger than the axe Dranosh had inherited from Sadfang. So the Lich King without his minions and his magic is at the biggest disadvantage here in my opinion. The strength of the Lich King also depends on the number of Undead he has under his command. Demons and Fel imbued beings strike me as more powerful when it comes to physical strength compared to the Undead. Undead rely solely on their magic. Their death and necromantic magic determines their physical power. Meanwhile demons are still alive. They have functioning muscles, blood and tissue. But on top of that they have insanely powerful magic as well. The most destructive kind of magic that exists in the Universe.

    Can't say anything about Lei Shen in a pure physical fight. He couldn't turn into mountain sized Lei Shen without the use of his magic. And i'm not aware of any information about his skill as a pure warrior with a weapon.
    Last edited by Reinhart11; 2019-10-15 at 08:57 AM.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    Lich King probably, if only because Illidan would be caught mid monologue yet again.

    I feel like Grom may as well not exist in this fight, it's like asking if Hawkeye could stand a chance against Thor and Captain Marvel.

    Lei Shen is a bit weird due to the fact that a lot of his power came from siphoning Ra'Den and seemed to require the use of the Throne of Thunder itself to control. I feel like if the fight took place in the Throne of Thunder, Lei Shen would come out victorious as his potential would surpass the Lich King in that situation, but in any other scenario it would likely go to the Lich King.

    I know some blizz dev questionably said that Lei Shen would beat the Lich King, but you have to consider the above. Lei Shen's power is kind of location based, you cannot rely on that in an arena styled melee fight.
    Lei Shen defeated Xuen in the Throne of Thunder?

  3. #63
    chaos grom has no chances

    1. he is strong but pretty stupid. even back in wc1 he was aggressive and only cared to be physically strongest of all. in wod it was retconned for good for him
    he attacks and thinks later or never thinks at all.
    2. lk arthas would smash both.
    3. illidan still hold draw vs arthas back in wc3. before skull. or maybe they didnot try much.

    I guess Arthas would win.
    if we remove all magic powers. than maybe Illidan can beat both and arthas takes low ground.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by masterjc View Post
    chaos grom has no chances

    1. he is strong but pretty stupid. even back in wc1 he was aggressive and only cared to be physically strongest of all. in wod it was retconned for good for him
    he attacks and thinks later or never thinks at all.
    2. lk arthas would smash both.
    3. illidan still hold draw vs arthas back in wc3. before skull. or maybe they didnot try much.

    I guess Arthas would win.
    if we remove all magic powers. than maybe Illidan can beat both and arthas takes low ground.
    Grom was not in WC1...
    And he was smart enough to hide from people under their nose

  5. #65
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    I think 7.3 retconned demon regeneration. Without Argus demons can't regenerate?
    No it didn't.
    It just added another anchor for the legion.

    Demons still regenerate in the nether.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  6. #66
    prime Lei Shen > LK Arthas > Illidan > Fel Grom > Arthas (amped by LK almost completely)

    in the books, Kael himself gave Arthas a hard time.

    Illidan lost because of his self confidence and Arthas wasn't weakened. LK gave him some of his remaining power which almost killed him.
    Last edited by DemonHunter18; 2019-10-15 at 04:02 PM.

  7. #67
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterjc View Post
    chaos grom has no chances

    1. he is strong but pretty stupid. even back in wc1 he was aggressive and only cared to be physically strongest of all. in wod it was retconned for good for him
    he attacks and thinks later or never thinks at all.
    2. lk arthas would smash both.
    3. illidan still hold draw vs arthas back in wc3. before skull. or maybe they didnot try much.

    I guess Arthas would win.
    if we remove all magic powers. than maybe Illidan can beat both and arthas takes low ground.

    Grom was never stupid, in fact he differentiate from other warriors exactly because he used tartics and his brain instead of pure brute strength.

    And the fight is a melee fight, not magic blast shenanigans

  8. #68
    Lei Shen being stronger then Arathas is lore. Arthas beat illidan. Is chaos grom really all that strong? Many things have killed wild gods.

    So

    Lei Shen > Arthas > Illdian > Chaos Grom

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    Lich King probably, if only because Illidan would be caught mid monologue yet again.

    I feel like Grom may as well not exist in this fight, it's like asking if Hawkeye could stand a chance against Thor and Captain Marvel.

    Lei Shen is a bit weird due to the fact that a lot of his power came from siphoning Ra'Den and seemed to require the use of the Throne of Thunder itself to control. I feel like if the fight took place in the Throne of Thunder, Lei Shen would come out victorious as his potential would surpass the Lich King in that situation, but in any other scenario it would likely go to the Lich King.

    I know some blizz dev questionably said that Lei Shen would beat the Lich King, but you have to consider the above. Lei Shen's power is kind of location based, you cannot rely on that in an arena styled melee fight.
    Since when has it been suggested that Lei Shen was like Hela in Thor Ragnorok?

    He was strong because he contained the fragment of a titans soul

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    Many things have killed wild gods.
    Lol what? Who?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Lol what? Who?
    Player characters, demons, drakkai trolls, Zul, zul's spider lady, the blood trolls.

    Not kills but highlight that wild gods aren't the strongest
    - Lei shen didn't kill one but best the shit out of it.
    - Twilight hammer captured one
    - Naga were on the process of killing one

    Edited: Updating as I look on wowpedia
    Last edited by Newname1234567890; 2019-10-15 at 04:53 PM.

  11. #71
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    He had his powers fully restored by the Lich King. So you guys are wrong.
    after the LK got his powered drained massively for the entire campaign so nope Arthas wasn't as powerful as by end of wc3 RoC, i know LK buffed him as best he can, but why did everyone forget that LK himself lost a moderate amount of power in first place (hence why after Arthas win he went ice cube mode)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    No, Chaos Grom killed Cenarius.
    Manaroth is stronger than Cenarius, he wanted Cenarius dead because their hit and run tactics can bleed the burning legion forces a lot, not because Cenarius can beat him in direct fight
    Or at least Mannoroth claims he is 3rd in power only after Sargeras and Arch/KJ, but Mannoroth credibility is really doubtful when he is practice dummy for axes by orcs
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    after the LK got his powered drained massively for the entire campaign so nope Arthas wasn't as powerful as by end of wc3 RoC, i know LK buffed him as best he can, but why did everyone forget that LK himself lost a moderate amount of power in first place (hence why after Arthas win he went ice cube mode)
    Yes he was. He got instant max level and said that his powers were restored:


    (It's an image from the previous thread, don't take it personally.)

    Anyway, in the book it's explained that the Lich King didn't only restored his powers... he empowered him. He was stronger than he was just as a Death Knight:
    Last edited by Eazy; 2019-10-15 at 05:27 PM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    Player characters, demons, drakkai trolls, Zul, zul's spider lady, the blood trolls.

    Not kills but highlight that wild gods aren't the strongest
    - Lei shen didn't kill one but best the shit out of it.
    - Twilight hammer captured one
    - Naga were on the process of killing one

    Edited: Updating as I look on wowpedia
    Now let’s denote something. In the Chronicles there is a list of the greatest wild gods (and Cenarius is in this list). Who is not there? Loa. They are also considered wild gods, but they are much weaker than the Ancient Guardians and August Celestials. Even Rezan is not on this list. So the example with the drakkari, Zul and his servants is not good. The players? Demons? Players defeated the strongest wild gods only in raids, and never 1x1 (like Grommash). Against Cenarius, they even needed the help of Malfurion.
    Demons also killed the wild gods only in a huge crowd. So the fact that Grommash killed one of the strongest wild gods 1x1 shows how really strong he is.

    Lei Shen? You said that killing the Wild God by someone like Grommash is not a feat, and cite Lei Shen as an example, who had the powers of a Keeper and the soul of a titan and even needed 30 days to defeat Xuen.
    They (Twilight's Hammer) captured him(Tortolla) only because he had recently woken up and was not ready for battle.
    Who are you talking about? The ancients in Vashj'ir? These are not wild gods.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Now let’s denote something. In the Chronicles there is a list of the greatest wild gods (and Cenarius is in this list). Who is not there? Loa. They are also considered wild gods, but they are much weaker than the Ancient Guardians and August Celestials. Even Rezan is not on this list. So the example with the drakkari, Zul and his servants is not good. The players? Demons? Players defeated the strongest wild gods only in raids, and never 1x1 (like Grommash). Against Cenarius, they even needed the help of Malfurion.
    Demons also killed the wild gods only in a huge crowd. So the fact that Grommash killed one of the strongest wild gods 1x1 shows how really strong he is.

    Lei Shen? You said that killing the Wild God by someone like Grommash is not a feat, and cite Lei Shen as an example, who had the powers of a Keeper and the soul of a titan and even needed 30 days to defeat Xuen.
    They (Twilight's Hammer) captured him(Tortolla) only because he had recently woken up and was not ready for battle.
    Who are you talking about? The ancients in Vashj'ir? These are not wild gods.
    According to wowpedia all above are wild gods. So sorry I dont take your personal list of true wild gods.

    Also I clearly made a section for not kill but beaten....

    Never said it wasn't a feat just said all that strong compared with the others listed

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    According to wowpedia all above are wild gods. So sorry I dont take your personal list of true wild gods.

    Also I clearly made a section for not kill but beaten....

    Never said it wasn't a feat just said all that strong compared with the others listed
    Can you read or should I teach you? I said that THEY ARE WILD GODS, too, but in the CHRONICLES there is a list of the GREATEST wild gods and there are no loas.
    And yet you gave these examples and I explained to you what really happened.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Now let’s denote something. In the Chronicles there is a list of the greatest wild gods (and Cenarius is in this list). Who is not there? Loa. They are also considered wild gods, but they are much weaker than the Ancient Guardians and August Celestials. Even Rezan is not on this list. So the example with the drakkari, Zul and his servants is not good. The players? Demons? Players defeated the strongest wild gods only in raids, and never 1x1 (like Grommash). Against Cenarius, they even needed the help of Malfurion.
    Demons also killed the wild gods only in a huge crowd. So the fact that Grommash killed one of the strongest wild gods 1x1 shows how really strong he is.

    Lei Shen? You said that killing the Wild God by someone like Grommash is not a feat, and cite Lei Shen as an example, who had the powers of a Keeper and the soul of a titan and even needed 30 days to defeat Xuen.
    They (Twilight's Hammer) captured him(Tortolla) only because he had recently woken up and was not ready for battle.
    Who are you talking about? The ancients in Vashj'ir? These are not wild gods.
    Archimonde killed Malorne 1v1, so saying that it only happened when the demons were in huge crowds is false.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Hellscream View Post
    Archimonde killed Malorne 1v1, so saying that it only happened when the demons were in huge crowds is false.
    Oh god, how tired I am ...
    Malorne is a unique case, because crowds of demons CAN'T kill him. Archimonde needed to intervene in person. Archimonde> crowds of demons. This shows how strong Malorne is. Do you even know what we are arguing about and read the previous sentences or just saw the last post and decided to show off your knowledge?

  18. #78
    Malorne is arguably the strongest Wild God.

    he screwed with Elune, a Goddess

  19. #79
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    It's crazy how so many ppl haven't read arthas rise of the Lich king
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    It's crazy how so many ppl haven't read arthas rise of the Lich king
    Why do you say this?

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