[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[dribbles]

If the EU approves the extension aswell as the UK parliament then Johnson can't get out of the EU even if he wants to, because any leaving requires parliamentary approval, or time running out.

If the EU had any respect for democracy it wouldn't offer an extension keeping the UK trapped a prisoner against its wishes. In a poll of 26000...

over half say their preferred outcome is for the UK to leave the EU (54%) compared to less than half who say their preferred outcome is for the UK to remain in the EU (46%)

https://www.comresglobal.com/polls/i...-october-2019/

[Jessicka]

If the EU had any respect for democracy it wouldn't offer an extension keeping the UK trapped a prisoner against its wishes. In a poll of 26000...

over half say their preferred outcome is for the UK to leave the EU (54%) compared to less than half who say their preferred outcome is for the UK to remain in the EU (46%)

https://www.comresglobal.com/polls/i...-october-2019/

You're not a fucking prisoner, you're free to travel, work and live anywhere on the continent. You will be very much more a prisoner once Brexit goes through and that's no longer the case, and Tory right and BXP will be allowed to curtail your rights even further with ID cards, diminished right to protest, no protection from the ERHC and so on.

You think you want this, but you don't. You may think you have nothing to hide and nothing to fear right now, but one day, something you take for granted now may be something you want to hide.

[Mayhem]

If the EU had any respect for democracy it wouldn't offer an extension keeping the UK trapped a prisoner against its wishes. In a poll of 26000...

You understand that the UK doesn't have to ask for an extension? I mean, is your government not strong and stable and due to your awesome democracy totally democratically elected?

[Mayhem]

Fucking brilliant argument eurotrash, oppose Brexit because you don't like democracy. Of all the reasons to oppose Brexit...

You seem to have troubles reading, what part of my post didn't you understand because your answer makes no sense.

[dribbles]

You're not a fucking prisoner, you're free to travel, work and live anywhere on the continent. You will be very much more a prisoner once Brexit goes through and that's no longer the case, and Tory right and BXP will be allowed to curtail your rights even further with ID cards, diminished right to protest, no protection from the ERHC and so on.

You think you want this, but you don't. You may think you have nothing to hide and nothing to fear right now, but one day, something you take for granted now may be something you want to hide.

Still peddling the remain hymn people didn't know what they voted for? After all this time you still think they don't? The biggest poll I just linked and taken since the referendum shows Brexit support is growing.

Oh come on Dribbles, you are twisting these polls harder than the Remainers are.

That is one poll of many. The same pollster is predicting a strong performance for Labour at the next election which would see the Tory majority wiped out, and Brexit likely cancelled, which I presume you aren't cheerleading for. You can't have it both ways.

Labour are fubarred when it will be shown at the next election that they, in collaboration with the EU and ex-Tories, are responsible for blocking brexit. The poll wouldn't take account of that yet.

You understand that the UK doesn't have to ask for an extension? I mean, is your government not strong and stable and due to your awesome democracy totally democratically elected?

We do have to ask it's the law, surely the EU can see how hated they are in the UK and wouldn't want to keep us prisoners. At the next election Boris will stand on a ticket of freedom from the EU with almost immediate effect. Corbyn will be shown to have blocked that.

Boris will win with a landslide.

Under those circumstances why would the EU offer an extension? Are they so desperate?

[Mayhem]

We do have to ask it's the law, surely the EU can see how hated they are in the UK and wouldn't want to keep us prisoners.

So your argument is that the EU should not respect your democracy then?

At the next election Boris will stand on a ticket of freedom from the EU with almost immediate effect. Corbyn will be shown to have blocked that.

Ok, so?

Boris will win with a landslide.

Good for him.

Under those circumstances why would the EU offer an extension? Are they so desperate?

Because the UK asked and the EU respects that?

[Gorsameth]

Still peddling the remain hymn people didn't know what they voted for? After all this time you still think they don't? The biggest poll I just linked and taken since the referendum shows Brexit support is growing.



Labour are fubarred when it will be shown at the next election that they, in collaboration with the EU and ex-Tories, are responsible for blocking brexit. The poll wouldn't take account of that yet.



We do have to ask it's the law, surely the EU can see how hated they are in the UK and wouldn't want to keep us prisoners. At the next election Boris will stand on a ticket of freedom from the EU with almost immediate effect. Corbyn will be shown to have blocked that.

Boris will win with a landslide.

Under those circumstances why would the EU offer an extension? Are they so desperate?

Yes, asking for an extension is the law. You know who made and signed that law? The UK parliament, elected by the people in the last election.

Meanwhile the push for a hard Brexit comes for Boris Johnson, who was not elected at all.

Something something Democracy something something.

The UK is free to leave and doesn't have to ask for extensions if it doesn't want to. But you, the UK, can't actually decide on leaving and keep asking to stay.

[Twdft]

We do have to ask it's the law, surely the EU can see how hated they are in the UK and wouldn't want to keep us prisoners.

You could have been out on march 29th but asked for extension.

You can be out tomorrow, you just don't want to, asking for another extension. Remind me again who made it a law that makes our Boris ask for it...

[Gorsameth]

So it seems that BoJo has agreed to the Northern Ireland only backstop, only instead of saying that NI will be in the EU customs area they will say NI is in the UK customs area but has to apply all the regulations of the EU customs area instead. So they are putting lipstick on the pig May refused to kiss and BoJo is ready for a smooch.
And perhaps they are keeping the ability for NI to withdraw from the backstop only you'd need for both nationalists and unionists to agree which would never happen; this imo is problematic because not only is it not democratic but it stifles the very real effort by parties that refuse to affiliate with either side of the struggle. If NI should get a say on withdrawing from the backstop, it should be by plebiscite imo.

Wasn't the plan Johnsons to begin with and it was NI that wanted nothing to do with it?

And how does this actually solve anything? If goods can freely move from the UK to NI they can move freely from NI to Ireland and the rest of the EU. They would need to check everything coming from the rest of the UK into NI which i thought the DUB was utterly against?

[dribbles]

You could have been out on march 29th but asked for extension.

You can be out tomorrow, you just don't want to, asking for another extension. Remind me again who made it a law that makes our Boris ask for it...

Nothing changes the fact that poll after poll shows people of the UK are no friends of the EU. And here comes the NI trojan horse...

So it seems that BoJo has agreed to the Northern Ireland only backstop, only instead of saying that NI will be in the EU customs area they will say NI is in the UK customs area but has to apply all the regulations of the EU customs area instead. So they are putting lipstick on the pig May refused to kiss and BoJo is ready for a smooch.
And perhaps they are keeping the ability for NI to withdraw from the backstop only you'd need for both nationalists and unionists to agree which would never happen; this imo is problematic because not only is it not democratic but it stifles the very real effort by parties that refuse to affiliate with either side of the struggle. If NI should get a say on withdrawing from the backstop, it should be by plebiscite imo.

This is a huge win for the UK and a major EU climbdown. NI stays a part of the UK, yet retains access to the EU single market and yet all the UK leaves the EU. In essence the UK will still have access to the EU single market and will also have left. No need for the UK to do a FTA with the EU, we already in effect have one at no cost whatsoever. Hahahaha.

We brexiteers got our cake and cherries, what a loss for the EU.

[Forogil]

A highly misleading summary of a misleading poll.

The question asked was "Thinking about the UK leaving the EU, which of the following would be your preferred outcome?", which is a text-book example of a leading question.

They surveyed 26,000 and their weighted answers were:

42% want to stay in the EU.
30% want to leave the EU with a withdrawal agreement.
20% want to leave the EU without a deal.
8% don't know.

Thus according to that survey 50% want to leave - but in different ways, and 42% don't want to leave.

And to remove the "don't know" is odd - but to remove them to compute percentages and keep them in the number of surveyed people is plain misleading.

Furthermore 44% oppose Johnson's leave with on October 31st with or without a deal, 43% support it (i.e. there are some that wants to stay in the EU but still supports leaving on October 31st …).

With such polling and corresponding parliament it seems that the UK is desperate to regain the title of "sick man of Europe" from Greece.

[Crispin]

If the EU had any respect for democracy it wouldn't offer an extension keeping the UK trapped a prisoner against its wishes. In a poll of 26000...

over half say their preferred outcome is for the UK to leave the EU (54%) compared to less than half who say their preferred outcome is for the UK to remain in the EU (46%)

https://www.comresglobal.com/polls/i...-october-2019/

It’s your elected parliment that is forcing your PM to ask for the extension, drop the ignorant bullshit.

- - - Updated - - -

Delusion, your name is dribbles.

He’d paint a revocation of article 50 as winning.

[dribbles]

Btw to clarify on what dribbles was poorly understanding.

Everything that moves from NI to the mainland will be subject to customs, EU customs. Since this is only about things that fall under a custom's union competence, this means no services as well. All this does is kick the UK out but keep NI in with a border at sea, exactly as the EU has suggested since day one.

That is not quite correct, just to clarify for you.

Great Britain and NI will be in a UK wide customs union and the UK will leave the EU. NI will maintain regulatory alignment with the EU and have access to the EU single market thereby removing the requirement of a hard border between NI and the South.

This access to the EU single market will be enjoyed, for free, by the whole of the UK, via NI.

Exports from NI to GB will not need checks or customs as they remain in the UK customs union. Exports from NI to the EU will not need checks as they maintain regulatory alignment with the EU.

That is not what the EU proposed from day 1.

[Clone]

Brexit deal at hand in Brussels, Johnson struggles to win support at home

So it seems they also agreed to at least match EU regulations for labour and environment.

Want that one of the reasons they wanted to leave?

[Gorsameth]

That is not quite correct, just to clarify for you.

Great Britain and NI will be in a UK wide customs union and the UK will leave the EU. NI will maintain regulatory alignment with the EU and have access to the EU single market thereby removing the requirement of a hard border between NI and the South.

This access to the EU single market will be enjoyed, for free, by the whole of the UK, via NI.

Exports from NI to GB will not need checks or customs as they remain in the UK customs union. Exports from NI to the EU will not need checks as they maintain regulatory alignment with the EU.

That is not what the EU proposed from day 1.

There is 0 chance that there are no checks at some point between the UK and the EU while the UK leaves the customs union.

0

[kaid]

That is not quite correct, just to clarify for you.

Great Britain and NI will be in a UK wide customs union and the UK will leave the EU. NI will maintain regulatory alignment with the EU and have access to the EU single market thereby removing the requirement of a hard border between NI and the South.

This access to the EU single market will be enjoyed, for free, by the whole of the UK, via NI.

Exports from NI to GB will not need checks or customs as they remain in the UK customs union. Exports from NI to the EU will not need checks as they maintain regulatory alignment with the EU.

That is not what the EU proposed from day 1.

My question is how does that not set NI up as a smuggling hub.

[Crispin]

That is not quite correct, just to clarify for you.

Great Britain and NI will be in a UK wide customs union and the UK will leave the EU. NI will maintain regulatory alignment with the EU and have access to the EU single market thereby removing the requirement of a hard border between NI and the South.

This access to the EU single market will be enjoyed, for free, by the whole of the UK, via NI.

Exports from NI to GB will not need checks or customs as they remain in the UK customs union. Exports from NI to the EU will not need checks as they maintain regulatory alignment with the EU.

That is not what the EU proposed from day 1.

Are you really stupid enough to belive such a deal would go through?

[kaid]

I think even if he somehow gets another deal that passes muster with the EU the DUP probably faffs off at the last minute and the hard core no deal brexiters will say it is not brexity enough and they fail to get votes. One way or the other an extension is going to be needed because there is no way they are going to get this together fast enough that people are going to be willing to vote on it until it gets finalized.

[Mayhem]

Are you really stupid enough to belive such a deal would go through?

Hey, why not? I mean, he asked for the EU to respect UK democracy by ignoring UK democracy, everything goes in his world.

[dribbles]

Are you really stupid enough to belive such a deal would go through?

Widely reported Crispy, it's not just me making these things up.

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/...55609506668544

NI will be the new Monaco eurochums, perhaps a bit wetter...