Why I look forward to Calia's rule (if blizzard does anything with this)

[Trassk]

Of course its not set in concrete she will take the helm yet, its just up in the air at this moment, but a lot seems to point towards her coming to become the forsaken ruler.

What actually interests me about this, isn't Calia herself to much, but the possibility of what she could do for and with the forsaken.

Something thats bothered me for a long time with the forsaken, is that since they were introduced into warcraft, as a race they have always been very one note. Everything about the forsaken was tied directly to sylvanas and her machinations. Every twisted thing the forsaken did, came from her and her designs. And the forsaken have just blindly followed along.

It seems like many other races in warcraft have had a chance to develop into different entities. Orcs, have different archetypes from the warmongering savage to the wise and tentative shaman types or the ones who uphold honor first and foremost, they are complex and it allows someone to play orcs from any kind of angle if they so choose. Night elves you could be a nature loving hippie, or a vengeful warrior. Trolls could be ones looking to let go of their more primitive ways, or ones who embrace darker elements of their society. And so on.

But forsaken, they have been the same archetype for decades now, without an outlet for something different. There have only been a few individuals in the forsaken who stood out as being anything besides the edgy sullen emo types the majority of forsaken have been, and that's all because blizzard did nothing to develop them out of the same funk they've been stuck in for years.

So, by having Calia, and not having sylvanas around, I hope we actually get to see another kind of forsaken, one that isn't just another 'DURR ME BLIGHT THE LAND AND HATE ALL LIFE, DURR' that we've gotten for years, and hopefully see another kind of forsaken archetype for once.

Of course that same boring sylvanas archetype will remain for those wanting it, but yeah, this race as badly needed something to change it, because it just has grown stagnant at this point.


Edit: And just to throw in, those who hate this because their afraid of the change a new forsaken ruler will bring, heres a dash of irony.

[Itisamuh]

The problem is that as the various races change, they end up losing their identity and are all basically reskins of the same personality, which is the very reason the faction war has been stupid for years. I would rather stay stagnant and cool than become another reskinned human, if those are the only options available. Undead should be borderline evil by default anyway if you ask me cause who the hell wants nice zombies?

[Jamie081]

Something thats bothered me for a long time with the forsaken, is that since they were introduced into warcraft, as a race they have always been very one note. Everything about the forsaken was tied directly to sylvanas and her machinations. Every twisted thing the forsaken did, came from her and her designs. And the forsaken have just blindly followed along.

What about in WotLK when Grand Apothecary Putress and other Royal Apothecary Society members sided with Varimathras? They took control of Undercity and tried to kill Sylvanas. They caused the Wrathgate incident (killing both the undead and the living). There are also undead who did not side with Sylvanas during the events of 8.2.5.

Then you also have the starting zone showing people who became undead in the afterlife and going crazy because they refused to believe they were undead. Look at Lillian Voss. The undead don't seem very one-note to me.

Calia represents nothing outside of a RiGhTfUl claim to the Lordaeron throne and is a lightforged undead. She appears nothing but lawful good, which is as one-note as you can be.

[Trassk]

The problem is that as the various races change, they end up losing their identity and are all basically reskins of the same personality, which is the very reason the faction war has been stupid for years. I would rather stay stagnant and cool than become another reskinned human, if those are the only options available. Undead should be borderline evil by default anyway if you ask me cause who the hell wants nice zombies?

of course you think that, because you haven't been given any other way of seeing the race. This is what stagnation does.

[Kyphael]

I look forward to how they'll use her, if she'll be featured in any sort of prominent role at all, and possible future interactions between her, her Forsaken, Lightbound, and potentially crossing paths with Arthas again who is heavily rumored for a role in the next supposed Death-themed/Lich King 2 Bolvar expansion.

[Trassk]

What about in WotLK when Grand Apothecary Putress and other Royal Apothecary Society members sided with Varimathras? They took control of Undercity and tried to kill Sylvanas. They caused the Wrathgate incident (killing both the undead and the living). There are also undead who did not side with Sylvanas during the events of 8.2.5.

Then you also have the starting zone showing people who became undead in the afterlife and going crazy because they refused to believe they were undead. Look at Lillian Voss. The undead don't seem very one-note to me.

Calia represents nothing outside of a RiGhTfUl claim to the Lordaeron throne and is a lightforged undead. She appears nothing but lawful good, which is as one-note as you can be.

you've not really given many examples of anything different from the same archetype though, besides either being a willing slave to an evil queen, or insane.

[Jamie081]

you've not really given many examples of anything different from the same archetype though, besides either being a willing slave to an evil queen, or insane.

My first example was literally members of the Royal Apothecary Society betraying Sylvanas' rule, overtaking Undercity and almost killing her. How is that blindly following Sylvanas?

Did you read my post properly? You also ignored my point about evidence of there being undead who did not side with her in BFA. It's like saying all orcs sided with Garrosh.

[Irian]

Undead should be borderline evil by default anyway if you ask me cause who the hell wants nice zombies?

There's a huge ocean of difference between being evil and being unkind.

I don't want the Forsaken to be toothless or remorseful, but I also think they're far from what I'd ever call evil. I'd like to see them grow in a way that isn't as two-bit villainous as "undead guys who are bad".

[Arrashi]

Calia = Griffith
Forsaken = Casca
8.3.5/9.0 = Eclipse

I can't wait. Hopefully blizz will let christie golden handle entirety of any future forsaken storyline.

[Seradi]

I look forward to her becoming a raid boss after she tries to forcefully convert all the Forsaken into Lightforged as we saw with Xera and Illidan.

[Fixxit the Gnome]

I'd love to see a more variety of personalities of undead. Before the Storm brought up this for like a second, and it would be interesting to see how different people deal with undeath.

I really think there's room to explore undeath in the game. The irony of Darion Mograine becoming undead after spending his entire life fighting the dead, for instance.

[Trassk]

My first example was literally members of the Royal Apothecary Society betraying Sylvanas' rule, overtaking Undercity and almost killing her. How is that blindly following Sylvanas?

Its the same archetype, its just one is following another dark character instead of the previous one with evil machinations of there own instead of hers.

Did you read my post properly? You also ignored my point about evidence of there being undead who did not side with her in BFA. It's like saying all orcs sided with Garrosh.

if your referring to player characters who choose not to side with her in the war campaign, thats nothing because the player character has no agency.

And I already said at the start the different types of orcs there are, based on long time changes over the years to roles and leadership, something the forsaken have had no change to at all.

[Powerogue]

It's all about whether the altered identity of the forsaken is still an interesting one and whether the road we take to get there is a fun story. That's on Blizzard.

Right now, Calia feels like an awkward fit for exactly that reason: the forsaken are well known as sycophants to sylvanas who blight the living and hate life and all that jazz. A holy priest for a group of vengeful edgelords? A strange pick. But if you're paying attention to the leaked dialogue so far, they seem to know this and are drawing player attention to it. I particularly think to Calia trying to relate to Voss by mentioning "listening to her father's sermons", the father that she strangled, bashed against the walls of a tower and dropped his broken body onto the stones below.

Calia has been gone a while, and doesn't have experience with what the forsaken have become in her absence, and Blizzard seems to want us to notice this.

[The Butt Witch]

Sylvanas = Kronika
Forsaken = Cetrion & Geras

[Jamie081]

Its the same archetype, its just one is following another dark character instead of the previous one with evil machinations of there own instead of hers.



if your referring to player characters who choose not to side with her in the war campaign, thats nothing because the player character has no agency.

And I already said at the start the different types of orcs there are, based on long time changes over the years to roles and leadership, something the forsaken have had no change to at all.

Your point was that all undead just blindly followed Sylvanas. I gave you 3 examples of undead not blindly following her due to their own motivations. You're just moving the goalposts now.

I was actually referring to the conversation between an Orgrimmar Grunt and Forsaken refugee from 8.2.5.

Orgrimmar Grunt: You must be saddened to see Sylvanas leave.

Forsaken Refugee: Why? Because I'm Forsaken? Did you shed tears for Garrosh because you're an orc?

Orgrimmar Grunt: No... I shed tears because he brought shame to us all.

Source: https://www.wowhead.com/news=295290/...loyalists-bain

There have been different undead over the years. I think you're vying change for the sake of change which is fair enough since the undead have always had Sylvanas, but to be replaced by Calia who is as one-dimensional as it gets? She still needs development.

[GreenJesus]

Yeh.. great developments with Golden writing the forsaken like arms falling off from shaking hands and Sylvanas outlawing books or something (lol wut?). Lilian Voss now speaks for the forsaken and said "nah I chose not to lead" lol wht? She was never part of the forsaken in the first place. She is just the only undead character the writers actually developed besides sylvanas and nathanos. Also, it sucks that nathanos was in practically every cut scene and stole time from other characters cause now he is just some villain we will be putting downs lackey. It's just so pointless. This is just a culmination of blizzards incompetence. Many players liked the evil and mad scientist vibe of the forsaken and dont want sad humans with skin disease.

[Darknessvamp]

Except the problem is Calia isn't an interesting character. I don't see her being used any further than pushing "a lightforging is great" and "repent" narrative before inevitably joining the "evil" forces of Light in a future expansion. Primarily because she isn't acting to understand the Forsaken but to instead "make them cope". I mean that's what I'm getting from her spiriting away the risen Night Elves for "private counseling". Don't be surprised when we get Light Ranger NPCs in the future is all I'm saying.

[Firefall]

Yeh.. great developments with Golden writing the forsaken like arms falling off from shaking hands and Sylvanas outlawing books or something (lol wut?). Lilian Voss now speaks for the forsaken and said "nah I chose not to lead" lol wht? She was never part of the forsaken in the first place. She is just the only undead character the writers actually developed besides sylvanas and nathanos. Also, it sucks that nathanos was in practically every cut scene and stole time from other characters cause now he is just some villain we will be putting downs lackey. It's just so pointless. This is just a culmination of blizzards incompetence. Many players liked the evil and mad scientist vibe of the forsaken and dont want sad humans with skin disease.

I wanted to make a post but this is everything I wanted to say.

[Tarba]

Of course its not set in concrete she will take the helm yet, its just up in the air at this moment, but a lot seems to point towards her coming to become the forsaken ruler.

What actually interests me about this, isn't Calia herself to much, but the possibility of what she could do for and with the forsaken.

Something thats bothered me for a long time with the forsaken, is that since they were introduced into warcraft, as a race they have always been very one note. Everything about the forsaken was tied directly to sylvanas and her machinations. Every twisted thing the forsaken did, came from her and her designs. And the forsaken have just blindly followed along.

It seems like many other races in warcraft have had a chance to develop into different entities. Orcs, have different archetypes from the warmongering savage to the wise and tentative shaman types or the ones who uphold honor first and foremost, they are complex and it allows someone to play orcs from any kind of angle if they so choose. Night elves you could be a nature loving hippie, or a vengeful warrior. Trolls could be ones looking to let go of their more primitive ways, or ones who embrace darker elements of their society. And so on.

But forsaken, they have been the same archetype for decades now, without an outlet for something different. There have only been a few individuals in the forsaken who stood out as being anything besides the edgy sullen emo types the majority of forsaken have been, and that's all because blizzard did nothing to develop them out of the same funk they've been stuck in for years.

So, by having Calia, and not having sylvanas around, I hope we actually get to see another kind of forsaken, one that isn't just another 'DURR ME BLIGHT THE LAND AND HATE ALL LIFE, DURR' that we've gotten for years, and hopefully see another kind of forsaken archetype for once.

Of course that same boring sylvanas archetype will remain for those wanting it, but yeah, this race as badly needed something to change it, because it just has grown stagnant at this point.


Edit: And just to throw in, those who hate this because their afraid of the change a new forsaken ruler will bring, heres a dash of irony.

Ho yeah! It's so cool that the power of love can undo what undeath do to your mind!
So you can finaly play an undead who feel love and compassion and love life!

Well of course it just shits on everything that made the forsaken particular to make them as bland as the other races. But atleast you will be able to play them like any other character. Without having to think "ho yeah right I'm undead I don't feel like a normal living human".

It's also nice to see that you want to put everything on sylvanas while every forsaken you meet in game is completely twisted, without needing any order from Sylvanas.

I know, I know. All races in wow have been shitted on to make sure that a 8 year old child who love blond princes fighting dragons can fit everywhere. But is it really a reason enought to continue in that direction?

[Verdugo]

Of course Traask fully supports stagnation, with all his oposition being accused of being pro-stagnation.