Sadly looking like Tinkers could become a reality.

[Kumorii]

what better what to fight death/undead then with tech?

usually holy and light.

[Triceron]

Except all of those races you mentioned has classes that match their racial lore. Mechagnomes dont. That's already been proven.

Mechagnomes have Hunters with Mech pets. Thats proof.

Mechs are technology and a part of Mechagnome racial lore; its even in their name. How can you ignore this?

[Pigglix]

If they really go with a death theme xpack, i think Dark Rangers or Necromancers are mostly likely to happen, sadly, because i would want a class without magic shenanigans.

But on the other hand, if Dark Rangers become a thing and they pull a DH out of it, as in, 2 specs, 1 tank , as we seen sylvanas fighting, and 1 ranged spec, that play like bm, but without a fucking pet, with more shoots than commands and any nature relataded abilities, ill be pleased.

[Ielenia]

The core lore of the class was present in WC3;

http://classic.battle.net/war3/neutr...ewmaster.shtml
http://classic.battle.net/war3/pandaren/

False. The lore of the race was present in WC3. The monk class had absolutely zero lore before MoP.

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after the events in Argus and Draenor. i do not trust the light.

This has nothing to do with the point. Holy magic is the antithesis of undeath.

[Teriz]

So you're saying the sword wounding the planet, making Azeroth bleed azerite, which was found out to be a source of fuel that is the equivalent of steroids for machines, and the Alliance and Horde fighting over it... was not a prelude of things to come, back in Legion?

And we knew all that was going to happen BEFORE 7.3 and AtBT?

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False. The lore of the race was present in WC3. The monk class had absolutely zero lore before MoP.

So Brewmaster has NOTHING to do with the Monk class?

[tyrlaan]

Polls.



What the heck are you talking about?



Your questions are irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

1) Then surely you can link me to the poll that supports your claim that gnomes and goblins are unpopular due to lack of a class they can identify with.
2) You damn well know what I'm talking about.
3) Of course it is. Understanding someone's agenda, especially when they are trying to ram so much down other people's throats, is incredibly relevant information.

Well my view is backed by evidence. Your view is backed by opinion.

See this right here. This is patently false. Your view is backed by your opinions which you are claiming to be evidence. You have taken a carefully curated assortment of facts to support your desire to see a Tinker class, and that's all you have.

And let's be clear. That would be fine... if you stopped acting like this was anything bigger than speculation and personal preference.

Which brings us back to the question - what is the point of all this from you?


Also, food for thought - there's a reason you are getting tons of pushback from people in this thread, and it's not because you're a genius and we're all idiots. If you have even the slightest interest in posting in good faith, you might want to reflect on this.

[kaminaris]

It's more people don't want tinkers to ruin the vibe tbh. I for one feel it has no place and would detract from the game environment. More than it already has with the gallyxwix / gnome nonsense.

Well, not adding tinkers would ruin the vibe tbh, with all that teasing and awesome mechagon.

[oplawlz]

So Brewmaster has NOTHING to do with the Monk class?

Not before MoP it didn't. He was just a drunk panda.

[Teriz]

See this right here. This is patently false. Your view is backed by your opinions which you are claiming to be evidence. You have taken a carefully curated assortment of facts to support your desire to see a Tinker class, and that's all you have.

So the DK, Monk, and DH classes being based on WC3 heroes and units and having WC3 abilities is just my opinion?

Okay.

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Not before MoP it didn't. He was just a drunk panda.

Obviously, since the Monk class didn't exist before MoP.

[tyrlaan]

So the DK, Monk, and DH classes being based on WC3 heroes and units and having WC3 abilities is just my opinion?

Okay.

C'mon man, at least mildly act like you read what I wrote.

These would be examples of the carefully curated assortment of facts that you use to support your desire to see a Tinker class.

And again, that would be fine if you just treated your speculation as... speculation.


Also, I'll reiterate:

Which brings us back to the question - what is the point of all this from you?


Also, food for thought - there's a reason you are getting tons of pushback from people in this thread, and it's not because you're a genius and we're all idiots. If you have even the slightest interest in posting in good faith, you might want to reflect on this.

(though based on this response to me, I guess we can all assume you're not interested in posting in good faith)

[Dragtox]

they never did that, in fact they stated not that long ago (before legion launch) that theme apropriate class is very immportant to them, to the point where they delayed demon hunters for so long just because of this one reason. also tech is not opposite to death, life is

that has really nothing to do with what i said tho i know abut the demon hunter thing but does not really change my point

i am just pointing out the sillyness of this themed thing and how it have holes

we had alot demon content tbc to wod orc draenei thing that turn into a demon thing and legion right after

even if people dont want a machine based expansion its silly if it keep going to be based around theme

becus we have people forcing themselves to hate gnome and goblin who knows they maby even hate MiniMe

ofc people struggle to the a machine based theme expansion i cant see it to a full thing but blizzard is kinda moving out of the old pattern no new race every expansion but keep getting new in the same expansion that meens it can work with classes aswell this is a wait and see thing not what they did in the past

but you know lightforged draenei tinker use light

[Teriz]

C'mon man, at least mildly act like you read what I wrote.

These would be examples of the carefully curated assortment of facts that you use to support your desire to see a Tinker class.

And again, that would be fine if you just treated your speculation as... speculation.

Let's try this again: True or False: The three expansion classes are based on WC3 heroes and units, and all contain WC3 abilities.

[Ielenia]

And we knew all that was going to happen BEFORE 7.3 and AtBT?

I think you'd be hard-pressed to make a valid argument regarding how a huge sword slowly killing our planet and making magic crystals with steroid-like effects for both people and machines wouldn't be pivotal in the follow expansion.

So Brewmaster has NOTHING to do with the Monk class?

The WC3 Brewmaster HAD nothing to do with the monk class until the Mists of Pandaria expansion came along. Because the brewmaster in WC3 was not a monk. The brewmaster was just that: a guy who loved drinking and making beer.

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So the DK, Monk, and DH classes being based on WC3 heroes and units and having WC3 abilities is just my opinion?

The monk was not based on any WC3 hero and/or unit. It was based on the RPG trope of the oriental martial artist monk, and the WC3 Pandaren Brewmaster was used for flavor.

But not as basis for the class. Saying the WC3 unit was used as basis for the class is like saying paint used to paint the walls was used as foundation for building the house.

[Teriz]

I think you'd be hard-pressed to make a valid argument regarding how a huge sword slowly killing our planet and making magic crystals with steroid-like effects for both people and machines wouldn't be pivotal in the follow expansion.

Yeah, but we didn't see that until after 7.3 was released. If BFA followed the theme of the final Legion raid, we'd be in a Titan expansion. Almost none of the major themes of Legion carried over into BFA.

The WC3 Brewmaster HAD nothing to do with the monk class until the Mists of Pandaria expansion came along. Because the brewmaster in WC3 was not a monk. The brewmaster was just that: a guy who loved drinking and making beer.

So once again; The Brewmaster hero from WC3 was used in the creation of the monk class.

The monk was not based on any WC3 hero and/or unit. It was based on the RPG trope of the oriental martial artist monk, and the WC3 Pandaren Brewmaster was used for flavor.

So a Brewmaster Monk doesn't exist?

But not as basis for the class. Saying the WC3 unit was used as basis for the class is like saying paint used to paint the walls was used as foundation for building the house.

If you take away every aspect of the Pandaren Brewmaster from the Monk class, you wind up with an entirety different class.

[Ielenia]

Yeah, but we didn't see that until after 7.3 was released. If BFA followed the theme of the final Legion raid, we'd be in a Titan expansion. Almost none of the major themes of Legion carried over into BFA.

No, it wouldn't be, because the last raid of Legion wasn't centered about the Titans, but centered about ending the Legion threat once and for all, and the lead-in to BfA was the aftermath of it.

So once again; The Brewmaster hero from WC3 was used in the creation of the monk class.

Except the WC3 brewmaster was not a monk back in Warcraft 3, and it was not a monk in WoW, until the Mists of Pandaria expansion came along.

So a Brewmaster Monk doesn't exist?

Don't play stupid. I'll repeat what I said since you apparently ignore everything and focus only on a few disjointed words: the monk class was based on the RPG oriental monk trope, and the WC3 brewmaster was added as flavor and to make it cohesive with the expansion. The WC3 unit was not used as a basis for the class.

If you take away every aspect of the Pandaren Brewmaster from the Monk class, you wind up with an entirety different class.

If we remove all aspects of the pandaren brewmaster from the monk class... guess what? It will still be a monk. Because, again, the unit was not the basis of the class.

[tyrlaan]

Let's try this again: True or False: The three expansion classes are based on WC3 heroes and units, and all contain WC3 abilities.

I'm not saying that's false. Stop being deliberately obtuse.

What I'm saying, and others are saying, that this is not EVIDENCE that Tinker must happen nor does it make Tinker FACT.

So no, let's not try this again until you stop being ridiculous.

And again...

Which brings us back to the question - what is the point of all this from you?


Also, food for thought - there's a reason you are getting tons of pushback from people in this thread, and it's not because you're a genius and we're all idiots. If you have even the slightest interest in posting in good faith, you might want to reflect on this.

(though based on this response to me, I guess we can all assume you're not interested in posting in good faith)

Every time I ask these and you don't respond, you lose more credibility.

[Teriz]

No, it wouldn't be, because the last raid of Legion wasn't centered about the Titans, but centered about ending the Legion threat once and for all, and the lead-in to BfA was the aftermath of it.

And the final boss was a corrupted Titan, and the expansion ended with the Pantheon and Sargeras, and the realization that the planet itself is a sleeping titan...

Except the WC3 brewmaster was not a monk back in Warcraft 3, and it was not a monk in WoW, until the Mists of Pandaria expansion came along.

What is a Monk in your view?

Don't play stupid. I'll repeat what I said since you apparently ignore everything and focus only on a few disjointed words: the monk class was based on the RPG oriental monk trope, and the WC3 brewmaster was added as flavor and to make it cohesive with the expansion. The WC3 unit was not used as a basis for the class.

The Brewmaster was also added as a spec, its concept of Brewing was added to each spec, its clothing and weapons were Monk exclusive items, its WC3 abilities ended up in multiple specs..

If we remove all aspects of the pandaren brewmaster from the monk class... guess what? It will still be a monk. Because, again, the unit was not the basis of the class.

Yes, a bland 2-spec class without a theme.

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I'm not saying that's false. Stop being deliberately obtuse.

What I'm saying, and others are saying, that this is not EVIDENCE that Tinker must happen nor does it make Tinker FACT.

I never said it was.

[Dolus]

Teriz = Master of Circular Reasoning.

[Triceron]

C'mon man, at least mildly act like you read what I wrote.

Yeah, I wrote a pretty long reply to him trying to bridge common ground.

He cherrypicks 1 line out of it, makes a dismissing statement, and that was his entire reply.

He's not actively listening to any counter points, he's just looking to dismantle anything that goes against his ideas.

[protip]

The point is that the vulpera are "unskilled" in using their "tool" to deal with technology.

Dude, their tech levels are barely above the tauren's. It doesn't matter if they're smart and quick-witted, to say that nomads who lived in the sand, with zero technology, can suddenly become masters of technologies is a huge leap that doesn't happen in just a couple of years.

But are the vulpera? Best I recall they're not interested in technology, just in surviving the harsh desert and surviving against the seth'rak faithless.

I guess you didn't understand the point I was making. No, they don't have this knowledge right now, but you're making the same sort of argument people made about Zandalari paladins when Rezan died. Although they are not tinkers at this point in 8.2.5, they are well suited to it, and perfectly well suited to overcoming the obstacles presently preventing them from it (they just escaped slavery, they are intelligent, and they are curious).

Are they interested in technology? According to the Allied Race Preview, they are capable of "turning what they find into opportunities to thrive." They are interested in everything they come across. As of the Horde's arrival in Vol'dun, they've come across goblin technology, why wouldn't they be interested?

As for taking time to learn things, that rarely plays out in game outside of major lore characters. Arthas raises death knights and they immediately start learning abilities. In our class halls, we trained troops of all kinds at 30 minutes a piece. In addition to all that, a tinker's role is primarily in using technology. It may take some knowledge to modify it, but far less than building everything from scratch. There is no reason to believe that they wouldn't be able to pick up the class immediately upon release.

Still doesn't mean they can become "masters of technology". It's downright amazing how people, in the same breath, can dismiss races that have actually dealt with technology, like humans, dwarves, forsaken and orcs, "because they're not tech-oriented", but then go and say that vulpera can be tinkers, despite being the least technology-oriented race after the tauren and night elves.

The only race I mentioned that I consider to be unlikely based on their nature was Blood Elves. Even that was assuming that tinkers don't use magical constructs, which I will admit I consider less likely than a more strictly technological concept, but I have never claimed even that was impossible. I don't know who you're talking to here, but it's not me. Check my race predictions earlier in the thread if you like. I even stated in my own predictions that Blizzard was likely to prefer giving players more options versus being more restrictive.

Which has zero bearings in deciding if said race can have the option to pick a given class. Otherwise, where are my void elf paladins, since they share the blood elf skeleton?

"Nonsense" is your argument. Goblins and gnomes don't have "exclusive" animations regarding technology, this "production cost" argument holds no water. Production costs are not addictive. You won't have the exact same work and cost to add a new race option to a class that you had when the class was created.

Things people want that are easy to make aren't more likely to end up in the game? Really, man? That's the only claim I made here. Void Elf paladins are specifically not possible, but maybe a Void based version could be added as a prestige class. In that case, yes, my point would most definitely apply. If you can simply recolor abilities, versus creating completely new ones, and the result will be something people want, then that's clearly a good use of resources for Blizzard as a company. This is not a controversial statement.