How could Necromancer work without destroying existing specs?

[Raelbo]

You do know that being able to use Necromantic magic makes you a Necromancer right?

That is not correct.

A Necromancer is a Sorceror/Spellcaster/Mage/Wizard who specialises in Necromantic magic.

All Necromancers use Necromancy. Not all users of Necromancy are Necromancers.

Howabout this, you go through this description here that explains what a Warcraft Necromancer is;

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https://wow.gamepedia.com/Necromancer

And you tell me what a Necromancer can do in that description that a DK cannot do.

Nice try, but no. It's disingenuous to cherry pick something and then use it to try and constrain my answer.

How about you answer this: If Necromancers were the same thing as death knights, then why does Death Knight have it's own page with it's own list of known Azerothian Death Knights none of which are on the list of known Necromancers? I'll tell you why: Because they're two different things (even if they share some common traits and abilities)



https://wow.gamepedia.com/Death_knight

[Teriz]

That is not correct.

A Necromancer is a Sorceror/Spellcaster/Mage/Wizard who specialises in Necromantic magic.

All Necromancers use Necromancy. Not all users of Necromancy are Necromancers.

That's your definition. The actual definition of a Necromancer is anyone who practices necromancy.

nec·ro·man·cer
/ˈnekrəˌmansər/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a person who practices necromancy; a wizard or magician.

"Specialize" or "Mastery" is completely your own headcanon at work.

Nice try, but no. It's disingenuous to cherry pick something and then use it to try and constrain my answer.

I didn't cherry pick anything. I gave you the literal description of a necromancer in Warcraft. Again, tell me what a Necromancer can do per that description that a DK cannot do.

I'm sure you can come up with several examples, since you believe that a DK isn't a necromancer.

How about you answer this: If Necromancers were the same thing as death knights, then why does Death Knight have it's own page with it's own list of known Azerothian Death Knights none of which are on the list of known Necromancers? I'll tell you why: Because they're two different things (even if they share some common traits and abilities)

Completely irrelevant. If the DK has all of the Necromancer's attributes and abilities, bringing in a cloth wearing class called "necromancer" is redundant and pointless.

[plz delete account]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=63560/dark-transformation

Not rebuilding. More of death magic to temporarily amp up your ghoul.

[Jshadowhunter]

Give him a tanking specc that uses pet for tanking and the necromancer uses abilities to keep him buffed and alive.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Honest question; Can you have a Necromancer class that doesn't summon undead minions?

You can have the summon those minions for different reasons.

[kaminaris]

Long story short: it can't. Blizzard is not going to get to absolute pinnacle of their creativity to create super unique spells for class that is not even considered as ally anymore to any of the sides.

[matrix123mko]

They dismantled every class in Legion, warlock is still very much a warlock. Though I will say demo is legion was fucking hilariously badly designed.

They fixed it for BfA.

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No, I'm talking about 6.2 when Blizzard nerfed the spec into oblivion and literally told players not to play the spec before completely revamping it in Legion.

You want to see that again with DKs? Be my guest.

Yes. Unholy is horribly designed and its removal in favor of new spec and new class is good idea.

[Teriz]

Yes. Unholy is horribly designed and its removal in favor of new spec and new class is good idea.

At least you're honest about it.

[Scathbais]

Why because DK has army of the dead?

"there's no way DH could exist" was also spouted before DH took away metamorphosis.

.....and completely gutted demonology.

[Alcsaar]

The options are quite literally unlimited in order to make necromancers unique from other specs.

Months, maybe even years ago, I posted what I want to see out of a necromancer class in WoW.

Heal, Tank, DPS specs, or possibly Heal / Melee DPS / Ranged specs.

You don't really cast any "spells" yourself, other than a select few. Instead, you command your minions to cast spells. If you specialize in the heal spec, you have specialized healer minions, and you command them to heal a player/players. This would be similar functionality for the other specs. You command minions to fulfil the specialized roles.

It would play more like the demonology warlock than any other spec. Mass minion build, instead of only having one "pet".

As for the necromancer himself, other than commanding pets, he might have access to some debuff/cursing abilities or something like that - who knows.

My only hope is that commanding the pets feels a little more responsive than kill command, which I always felt like had a really odd delay.

[codeGnave]

Dps spec scourge style necro would be like destro warlocks are to fire mages but for ice mages. Icy type spells with some corpse related spells as well.

Since at least half the classes have minions, and at least a quarter have pets, i dont think there is any reason to be overly concerned with necros taking their niches if it has one.

From memory:
Classes with pets: hunters, warlocks, mages and dks.
Classes with minions: hunters, warlocks, dks, shaman, priest, and paladins

[chrisnorris]

my thoughts on it is with all these updates coming to the ptr with death knights and such and the potential of a lich king themed expansion id expect they are probably being reworked for the coming expansion.

as for the necromancer. blizzard really aren't all that inventive any more. if they did bring the class into the game id expect it to have many similarities with the diablo necromancer spec wise so my guess would be something along the lines of bone reanimation and draining (would of been blood but I believe dks should keep that as back in the day blood was my favourite dps spec)
bone is builder spender expect to see lots of similar bone esque spells from diablo caster probably play similar to frost mages/boomies
reanimation can summon pets raise the dead and all that jazz.
draining for me would be another melee healer. gets in close and uses its resources to drain health from the target which the necromancer then uses to heal itself and other allies in proximity.
should probably wear mail too as every other armour type is currently filled to the brim.

[Sevarin]

They also hate demons... but we got warlocks and demon hunters.

Also, death knights.

warlocks enslave demons, demon hunters hunt demons and helped us in our greatest time of need, released and trusted by the very wardens that imprisoned them.

death knights are the only ones that sort of fall into the category. but again, necromancy is a choice. death knights were not, though they do use a fair amount of necromancy, so as i said before, yes, that makes a bit of sense.

[LionSinMaikeru]

That is not correct.

A Necromancer is a Sorceror/Spellcaster/Mage/Wizard who specialises in Necromantic magic.

All Necromancers use Necromancy. Not all users of Necromancy are Necromancers.
[/URL]

This, 100%

That's your definition. The actual definition of a Necromancer is anyone who practices necromancy.



"Specialize" or "Mastery" is completely your own headcanon at work.

Actually, no, it's not his headcanon. It's how WoW classifies it and how RPG classes work.

By your logic there'd be no need for Warlock because they're simply a Mage who uses fel energy.

Warlocks are considered Warlocks and not Mages because they don't dabble - they commit. Same applies for Deathknights / Necromancers.

Deathknights technically dabble, Necromancers revolve around Necromancy.

[Ielenia]

warlocks enslave demons,

And? They still willingly use fel magic, repeatedly, which we know can corrupt the body and mind.

demon hunters hunt demons

And eat their flesh and bind the demon's soul with their own, living in eternal torture as the demons keep constantly trying to convince them to let them free. Basically, they're ticking time bombs.

and helped us in our greatest time of need, released and trusted by the very wardens that imprisoned them.

"Trusted"? They only released the demon hunters because the Legion suddenly invaded out of nowhere, and because the wardens consider them "the lesser evil". There was no trust.

death knights are the only ones that sort of fall into the category. but again, necromancy is a choice. death knights were not, though they do use a fair amount of necromancy, so as i said before, yes, that makes a bit of sense.

Necromancy is a choice, yes, that death knights continue to use, over and over, to this very day.

[Kumorii]

Give him a tanking specc that uses pet for tanking and the necromancer uses abilities to keep him buffed and alive.

what's the healers job then?
Necro + 4dps teams go go go.

[Jshadowhunter]

what's the healers job then?
Necro + 4dps teams go go go.

Healer is still needed.
The only difference is that if tank dies the caster can just summon it again.

[Zorish]

There's a good reason for that, too. The Warlock class was created from a mashup of Necromancer and Warlock themes, with the thing closest to WC3 Warlocks being Detruction, while Affliction is basically entirely based on Necromancers.

well necromancers were created by demons and their teachings too, so it's not entirely true. Guldan necrolytes https://wow.gamepedia.com/Necrolyte are the thing. So warlocks not totally mashup. But you just answered the problem. To make necromancer class we basiclally must gut warlock (so minions will work, cause blizzard AGAINST you having more than one permanent minion, so need to be incombat res like demo lock minions) maybe DK and maybe (if we follow pattern) mage. Cause frost. That's why i am for them just making class skins and make warlock skin necromancer.

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Reconstruct flesh of undead creatures, for one.
Build abominations and such isn't something a DK does, nor is this the thread to smash necromancer.

em sorry to break you heart, but one of DK champions in legion is basically stiched up abomination created by Lord Thorval (bllood DK trainer)

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Give him a tanking specc that uses pet for tanking and the necromancer uses abilities to keep him buffed and alive.

pet tanking? not gonna happen. cause when pet dies - you don't need to waste battle res and you can just soak instagib tank mechanics with pet. Unless per transfer damage and abilities to necromancer fully - NOT GONNA HAPPEN!

[Soon-TM]

There are already necromancers in the game, they are called warlocks.

Necromancer = death magic

Warlock = fel magic

Try again.

[Zorish]

Necromancer = death magic

Warlock = fel magic

Try again.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Necrolyte

well... good part of necromancy came from legion actually...