WoW 9.0 Who is Death?

[thunterman]

Mueh'Zala.

Everything points to him. He's a Loa, his title is God of death - Bwonsamdi's boss
First cannon lore released in a novel in 2018
Shrine to him in Zuldazar.

This guy was essentially created and had snippets of lore created when BFA launched, but hasn't been mentioned ingame.

[Jericho21]

K, so the next expac isn't about ''Death''.

Fuck sake, why can't Blizzard just fucking focus on what they're building up.

Not today, but, tomorrow is a new day

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I had this thought this morning, but that we are Death's avatar. Everywhere we go, only death follows, for both good and evil, ally and enemy alike.

ehh nope. It's already established and canon Sylvanas is Death's avatar. As my 4 yo says "try again!"

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Mueh'Zala.

Everything points to him. He's a Loa, his title is God of death - Bwonsamdi's boss
First cannon lore released in a novel in 2018
Shrine to him in Zuldazar.

This guy was essentially created and had snippets of lore created when BFA launched, but hasn't been mentioned ingame.

who's more powerful: an old god or a loa?

[Stacko]

Mueh'Zala is brought up in Classic WoW. There are tablets about him in Zul'farrak & the Hinterlands.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Mueh'Zala is brought up in Classic WoW. There are tablets about him in Zul'farrak & the Hinterlands.

Yeah he's worshiped the the Farraki, they're the ones who have a shrine to him in Zuldazar too. Zul'farrak is also where he showed up in the Traveler series.

[Shampro]

Not today, but, tomorrow is a new day

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ehh nope. It's already established and canon Sylvanas is Death's avatar. As my 4 yo says "try again!"

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who's more powerful: an old god or a loa?

LOL now you're gonna tell me that Sylvanas was actually Yogg the whole time

Seriously though, in 2 weeks there better be some pay off to all the shit they've set up with the Shadowlands/Death, and not ''Old Gods did it xD XD XD!''

[shade3891]

Ner'zhul !!

[Rune B]

I like this idea as an abstract concept, *but* you have to be careful when taking vital game mechanics and canonizing them in the mythology of the game, especially when you’re looking at potentially adding said elements to the story and conflict of the game itself.

In Legion, Illidan tells players that they have an immortal soul, like him. I always took that to mean the player in general, not just Demon Hunters, but I see your point.

[Newname1234567890]

Not today, but, tomorrow is a new day

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ehh nope. It's already established and canon Sylvanas is Death's avatar. As my 4 yo says "try again!"

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who's more powerful: an old god or a loa?

Whose more powwrful doesnt really matter. We havent fought people on a linear scale of power.

[Zenfoldor]

Elune /10char

[ArkantosChampion]

What..if..AZEROTH..is...death and Sargeras is waked her up by hitting with SWORD....
No..rlly.

[Three Faced Goddess]

Not today, but, tomorrow is a new day

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ehh nope. It's already established and canon Sylvanas is Death's avatar. As my 4 yo says "try again!"

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who's more powerful: an old god or a loa?

Is there anything I want next expansion? Undead Elf allied race or undeath related content?

[Jericho21]

LOL now you're gonna tell me that Sylvanas was actually Yogg the whole time

Seriously though, in 2 weeks there better be some pay off to all the shit they've set up with the Shadowlands/Death, and not ''Old Gods did it xD XD XD!''

Nah, she's not Yoggy.

Remember: Death is an entirely different entity than the Void Lords, the Light, etc. The Void Lords are on a "we're cool, but not that cool" agreement with Death. Now that Elune has shrugged at the Night Elves and their "deaths", Elune (the Light) and Death have a tacit agreement. That puts the Void Lords on notice.

Thus, you have the avatar of Death (Sylvanas) and the avatar of Elune (Tyrande). The avatar, if you will, of the Void Lords is N'zoth and we're about to do the Electric Slide on N'Zoth. Makes it pretty clear.

Oh, and totally Wrathion gets rekt.

[Futhark]

All the champions (e.g. us, players) have immortal souls. I've always wondered have that came to be. It seems death has no hold on us.

I have a theory on this!



According to Chronicle, the Shadowlands are like a negative version of the Emerald Dream. Just like the Emerald Dream is a green/life copy of Azeroth, the Shadowlands are a grey/death copy of Azeroth.

When Ancient Guardians die, they return to the Dream and can come back to the Reality plane later. When Elementals die in Reality, they also return to their native plane and can be summoned back later.

When Mortal races die, they go to the Shadowlands and can be brought back to Reality later, just like all other Elementals.

From this, can we conclude that Mortal races act as Death Elementals. A host of interesting questions result from this theory:

• Is a ghost a pure manifestation of Death magic?
• If a mortal dies in the Shadowlands, does it die permanently like other Elementals in their native plane?
• Does the Curse of Flesh infect Titan creations with Death Elementals?
• Are Demons Fel Elementals? When they die they return to the Twisting Nether and can be brought back again (pre-Legion)

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

LOL now you're gonna tell me that Sylvanas was actually Yogg the whole time

Seriously though, in 2 weeks there better be some pay off to all the shit they've set up with the Shadowlands/Death, and not ''Old Gods did it xD XD XD!''

I'll continue to come back to "Void hates Death."

If Death was an Old God, the Void wouldn't have been trying to order Alleria to kill Sylvanas in Three Sisters. They'd be on the same side.

My assumption is what that means is Mueh'zala is more than just a Loa, or aspires to be.

[thunterman]

who's more powerful: an old god or a loa?

Well, I mean realistically, we don't know. Bwonsamdi is a powerful loa, he's afraid of his "boss". If Mueh'Zala is his boss, it's going to be safe to assume that he's not anything like any loa we know of currently. Maybe there is a tier above loa, which would make sense, as Mueh'Zala isn't the Loa of Death - he's the God of Death. Maybe loa are subservient to loa gods - an entirely new thing.

As a rule of thumb, I'd say that an old god is more powerful than a Loa, ofcourse. But I'd guess Mueh'Zala is more powerful than old gods - if he is infact Death itself for, if he is, he created the Shadowlands, tethered it to Azeroth e.t.c which is beyond the capability of an old god, they couldn't even successfully corrupt the Emerald Dream, let alone create it's opposite. If he is Death, he's on par / above titan keepers in the pecking order which defacto put's him above old gods.

It's hard to nail it down, but it seems the Emerald Dream and Shadowlands were both created BEFORE the old gods landed on Azeroth, so they definitely didn't create it. EDIT: I was wrong, went and read up to refresh memory, Old Gods were on Azeroth before the Pantheon first discovered it. Freya created the Dream as a blueprint for what Azeroth should/could be. Shadowlands was created by unknown ("Death") "has existed ever since mortal life first arose in the physical universe". The shadowlands spans the cosmos, not just Azeroth. Whoever created it has to be the most powerful entity in the universe.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Well, I mean realistically, we don't know. Bwonsamdi is a powerful loa, he's afraid of his "boss". If Mueh'Zala is his boss, it's going to be safe to assume that he's not anything like any loa we know of currently. Maybe there is a tier above loa, which would make sense, as Mueh'Zala isn't the Loa of Death - he's the God of Death. Maybe loa are subservient to loa gods - an entirely new thing.

As a rule of thumb, I'd say that an old god is more powerful than a Loa, ofcourse. But I'd guess Mueh'Zala is more powerful than old gods - if he is infact Death itself for, if he is, he created the Shadowlands, tethered it to Azeroth e.t.c which is beyond the capability of an old god, they couldn't even successfully corrupt the Emerald Dream, let alone create it's opposite. If he is Death, he's on par / above titan keepers in the pecking order which defacto put's him above old gods.

It's hard to nail it down, but it seems the Emerald Dream and Shadowlands were both created BEFORE the old gods landed on Azeroth, so they definitely didn't create it.

If he created the Shadowlands that would make him, power-wise, the exact opposite of whatever made the Emerald Dream. Which, given Jericho brought up Tyrande, is probably Elune.

[thunterman]

If he created the Shadowlands that would make him, power-wise, the exact opposite of whatever made the Emerald Dream. Which, given Jericho brought up Tyrande, is probably Elune.

Freya created the Emerald Dream - that's why I put him on par / above a titan watcher. Probably above a watcher, as I can't imagine Eonar herself didn't help Freya create the Dream.

Posting my previous edit again here for visibility -

I was wrong, went and read up to refresh memory, Old Gods were on Azeroth before the Pantheon first discovered it. Freya created the Dream as a blueprint for what Azeroth should/could be. Shadowlands was created by unknown ("Death") "has existed ever since mortal life first arose in the physical universe". The Shadowlands spans the cosmos, not just Azeroth. Whoever created it has to be the most powerful entity in the universe. Greatly surpassing Titans for sure. We know that Death and Void are enemies, so it wasn't the Void Lords - Maybe "Death" is another entity on par with Void Lords / "Shadow" itself I'm starting to think back to the Chronicles magic spectrum, perhaps Light, Life, Order, Shadow , Death and Disorder all have their own ultimate beings, battling across the cosmos, unbeknownst to us. Some working together to besiege others, Death playing smart, using the shadowlands to collect every single dead mortal in the universe in a alternate plane. Disorder doing the same (twisting nether / demons).

[Jericho21]

Freya created the Emerald Dream - that's why I put him on par / above a titan watcher. Probably above a watcher, as I can't imagine Eonar herself didn't help Freya create the Dream.

Posting my previous edit again here for visibility -

....keep going. You're almost there

[thunterman]

....keep going. You're almost there

I don't understand what your getting at here, you've lost me.

I've done some more reading, into the shadowlands, whoever created the shadowlands is a incomprehensibly powerful being, as it spans the entire cosmos, not just Azeroth. The Shadowlands is a death realm to the scale of the entire universe. 100% absolutely NOT created by the old gods, or a Loa, perhaps Mueh'Zala didn't create it. I'm going to retract, and say he run the Azeroth shadowlands, not the entire shadowlands. He's death itself on a small scale, but he must answer to a higher being again.

[Nyel]

@Jericho21 I know you have to be careful but maybe my question is vague enough for you to answer: do we get a new class (with its major theme being death) or are the class reworks / class gameplay additions massive enough that those things alone justify not having a "new class"?