Sadly looking like Tinkers could become a reality.

[QuelDrathon]

Tinker could be the sweet mid range mail class we need. I would love to see the concept.

[DotEleven]

You're just spitting your dummy out because you can't come to terms with people not wanting a class you want.

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Way to mince words but my guilds 1 guild out of thousands, your 600 votes poll is pathetic and a very small if vocal minority.

Great, and you're saying your guild represents ALL of them and that they all would vote the same way as your guild and so it somehow represents the accuracy more?

It's completely hypocritical.

[Teriz]

Correct
Not correct.

Which is a contradiction. If this expansion revolved around Bwonsamdi then the expansion would also be about death.

[jellmoo]

I would argue that this expansion wasn't about death at all, it was about life. (Granted not always done well... because... BfA)

- The life and spirit of the Horde
- The day to day life of the Kul Tirans, as they were struggling to live their way
- The rebirth of the Zandalari, with the ending of one rule and the start of another
- The reemergence of the ferocity of Night Elves
- The use of water as a prevailing visual, with water being a metaphor for life in literature and media
- The culmination of the faction war ends not with a brutal battle, but with sacrifice and hope
- The cycle of the Forsaken going full circle from a theme of darkness and death, to one embodied by a being of the Light

Sylvanas was only one component of the expansion and while her theme ends up being Death in the end, it wasn't the prevalent theme throughout.

[Dragtox]

a point to be said to thing when you put alot hate on gnome and goblin and becus of their size is kinda saying you hate little people in real life does meen you do tho but please consider that you are slowly thinking like that

we have people hating on fur based races just becus somon wear a fur suit

this hate towards ingame races for these reason are kinda dumb reason and not a good counter argument if you hate races

does matter if tinker is based on gnome, mechagnome and goblin
there are other races that can be tinker aswell

monk was not pandaran locked

and tinker is the same thing

ofc i was thinkg size of race gona be a problem then i hade to consider the races gona sit when they are in the machin so it probly be fine but if size it a problem i pick the races that is not to big that meens gnome,mecha gnome, goblin, undead, dark iron dwarf, dwarf, blood elf maby but then again vulpera can work becus lvl 1 monk
so if tinker is not a hero class then vulpera can be a tinker thing

but we are still going on loop on this thing there is no argument to go any direction

[Kumorii]

Which is a contradiction. If this expansion revolved around Bwonsamdi then the expansion would also be about death.

It would have hints of it, no one is denying that. You see things as black and white. I don't... i realise how themes and topics are incorporated, you don't. It's a contradiction because you lack the concept of nuances and degree of involvement.
Everything death related have yet to have a single sign of being resolved, thus they are hints of what's to come...which is next expansion.

As I said, mechagon was about tinkers, thus this expansion is about tinkers and next can't be about it. I know you will say "but it's a sub plot and not explored fully" which is exactly the point. That's how "Death" has been treated in this expansion.

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I would argue that this expansion wasn't about death at all, it was about life. (Granted not always done well... because... BfA)

- The life and spirit of the Horde
- The day to day life of the Kul Tirans, as they were struggling to live their way
- The rebirth of the Zandalari, with the ending of one rule and the start of another
- The reemergence of the ferocity of Night Elves
- The use of water as a prevailing visual, with water being a metaphor for life in literature and media
- The culmination of the faction war ends not with a brutal battle, but with sacrifice and hope
- The cycle of the Forsaken going full circle from a theme of darkness and death, to one embodied by a being of the Light

Sylvanas was only one component of the expansion and while her theme ends up being Death in the end, it wasn't the prevalent theme throughout.

Bingo. Sylvanas and Death was a Red Herring since the start. We all thought it would be about Sylvanas and thus we assumed it would be about death. But it's more about unity and coming together as well as putting focus on Anduin and Saurfang story arc. Everyone I know, me included, were surprised how little of this expansion was about Sylvanas directly, everything has been about other characters revolving around her.

We thought Sylvanas and Tyrande would clash and be resolved, but as it looks like Tyrande will also be a plot point that will take focus next expansion. Sylvanas will probably make an appearance at the end of N'Zoth raid since she plans to enslave him / kill him / trap him as we are told in loyalist ending. How that ends is anyones guess, either way that ending is what will kick off next expansion and most likely death related due to the nature of Sylvanas.

[Dragtox]

Tinker could be the sweet mid range mail class we need. I would love to see the concept.

mid ranged and range but marksman culd be long range but you know have to make it be based of a bow

[Dragtox]

No im not, don't be stupid and stop putting words into my mouth, im just saying there's more than 600 players ingame who will have different opinions it YOU guys who are pushing that measly poll as fact were as we've told you the data pool is too small. Only hypocrite here is you guys.

not sure asking retail tho since it got less player then classic but that meens the risk of the opinion on no changes

[DotEleven]

No im not, don't be stupid and stop putting words into my mouth, im just saying there's more than 600 players ingame who will have different opinions it YOU guys who are pushing that measly poll as fact were as we've told you the data pool is too small. Only hypocrite here is you guys.

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Tinker is melee.

You're trying to argue that your guild with 400 (which you haven't even actually polled I bet, you just pulled out your ass but never actually asked what they like) means that the poll doesn't count when it's got 600. Which admittedly wouldn't be as accurate as a poll asking the entire playerbase, but it does get a good reading on it because anyone could join and voice their opinion instead of just you and your friends. Especially when each time the poll comes up, the votes are pretty much the same with Tinker somewhere in the high 30s low 40s while the next down is like half that.

[Teriz]

It would have hints of it, no one is denying that. You see things as black and white. I don't... i realise how themes and topics are incorporated, you don't. It's a contradiction because you lack the concept of nuances and degree of involvement.
Everything death related have yet to have a single sign of being resolved, thus they are hints of what's to come...which is next expansion.

Yes because Sylvanas slaughtering Night Elves, murdering her own troops in Undercity, attempting to assassinate Thrall, resurrecting Derek Proudmore, releasing Nzoth, and torching Saurfang with dark magic because she couldn't get the horde and alliance to increase her body count is real nuanced.

And she isn't even done yet.

As I said, mechagon was about tinkers, thus this expansion is about tinkers and next can't be about it. I know you will say "but it's a sub plot and not explored fully" which is exactly the point. That's how "Death" has been treated in this expansion.

Not even close. Mechagon was about a lost Gnome population and their crazy king.

[jellmoo]

Bingo. Sylvanas and Death was a Red Herring since the start. We all thought it would be about Sylvanas and thus we assumed it would be about death. But it's more about unity and coming together as well as putting focus on Anduin and Saurfang story arc. Everyone I know, me included, were surprised how little of this expansion was about Sylvanas directly, everything has been about other characters revolving around her.

We thought Sylvanas and Tyrande would clash and be resolved, but as it looks like Tyrande will also be a plot point that will take focus next expansion. Sylvanas will probably make an appearance at the end of N'Zoth raid since she plans to enslave him / kill him / trap him as we are told in loyalist ending. How that ends is anyones guess, either way that ending is what will kick off next expansion and most likely death related due to the nature of Sylvanas.

To be fair, Blizzard could just as easily completely skip the death theme next expansion and not even feature Sylvanad at all. We could get a more MoP style, light hearted expansion instead. Or they could go with a death heavy expansion and still not prominently feature Sylvanas at all and save her for another day. It could be all Bolvar instead.

Blizzard jumps in and out of themes pretty randomly between expansions.

[DotEleven]

NO again you are putting words in my mouth, I said there's more players in a game than a poll can take I never said it was accurate I just quoted that there's more than 600 players in the game, you guys are just being obnoxious and im close to just ignoring you all because you're all so damned annoying claiming your 600 poll figure as fact..

Yes, there's more than 600. And polling every single one of them is ridiculous. So you take a poll to get a general idea. Do you even know how surveys work in real life? Someone wants to make a business decision they don't go around to every single person and say "Hey, I want your opinion on this idea" they randomly select a bunch of people, give them and then use that percentage to get a depiction of what asking everyone would look like.

The fact is, you apparently have no idea how surveys work.

But go ahead and ignore me for understanding how to use a poll with actual evidence while you go "Me and my friends don't like it" even though I bet you haven't even actually asked them and are just assuming they'll agree with you.

[Kumorii]

Yes because Sylvanas slaughtering Night Elves, murdering her own troops in Undercity, attempting to assassinate Thrall, resurrecting Derek Proudmore, releasing Nzoth, and torching Saurfang with dark magic because she couldn't get the horde and alliance to increase her body count is real nuanced.

I use nuance in one context and you use it in another context that's different. Nice. You use it for her personality while I used it for the theme of death.
Assault on Lordaeron served as a kick off for the expansion as well as introducing Jainas return and Saurfangs dis approval of Sylvanas way. It served as a way to connect Anduin and Saurfang who both find the wars meaningless and want them to end. Focus is on Saurfang and Anduin, not death.

Attempting to assassinate thrall didn't lead anywhere and we didn't get the actual motive behind it - aka yet to be resolved fully

Releasing N'Zoth isn't her doing solo, she helped by bringing us to Nazjatar, Magni is as much, if not more, of a reason why he was released.

We know she is against N'Zoth not for him - This have yet to be resolved, will probably be at the end of 8.3 and will also kick off next expansion just like Antorus raid did, strong point for death theme next expansion.

Saurfang dying - your conclusion is flat out wrong. She didn't kill him because there was't enough bodies considering 1 body wasn't enough anyway. As she said in loyalist ending is that there will be more bodies when we fight N'Zoth which is true. Motives have yet to be resolved.
Killing Saurfang was just because she was tired of his disillusion of hope and honor.

And she isn't even done yet.

Correct, much to be resolved. And that's just Sylvanas, then we have Bwonsambdi and the Hunger Darkness who have yet to be resolved or expanded upon as well as who were behind Vol'jins decision to appoint sylvanas as warchief. I think suspicions lead to death as well. Another strong hint for death being next expansion.

Not even close.

Ofc not, because you don't want it to be. That's what your argument is though. Because you refuse to expand on your arguments to anything that can actually be used except a vague overarching sentence that can work for so many things including your tinkers.
If you don't want to make arguments that can be used against tinkers, actually think about your arguments and make them more specific.
Until then you are just working against your own beloved race.

Which I don't even get because next expansion being death doesn't rule out tinkers completely anyway. Yet you don't want to it to be about death and thus you twist and turn what happened in this expansion to fit your wants. I suggest at looking at the expansion and come to a conclusion and arguments based on tangible results from the story and what it was about.

[DotEleven]

Actually I do and you wouldn't get decent poll data from a forum with a very small minority of players on it but you know... You think you know your right, that's the thing about opinions everyone has one not just you.

I think it's safe to say you don't know how to do a proper polling.

Also im done with you welcome to ignore.

You do you man. Everythings going to be from a minority. But when it's randomly selected from people all around you can get an accurate depiction.

I do hope you enjoy your circle-jerk with your friends trying to feel smart while not understanding the simplest way to use a poll.

[Teriz]

Tinker is melee.

All of the HotS and WC3 Tinker abilities are ranged. The mech components (claw pack or mech) are melee. Additionally, the Tinker NPCs are all ranged and use guns.

[Dragtox]

Oh Wow I suppose you have all the numbers of all servers from classic and retail... seriously..

no but i do know there is a problem if we based on retail becus these days mythic dungeon and raid stuff leads to competetive toxicty in retail harder for newer player and returning player to get into any of them becus most group dont want people that meets item lvl needed for those mythic dungeon and raid

are we gona trust those people no there is a reason game lose players

but classic gona have chance to go simlair direction around lvl 60 that i already know
but they have the group that do no chance thing

yes you see more player base in classic then retail
becus retail need to make relam phase into each other to fix that problem

and right now alot people dont want the competetive side to retail to decide the what player should get
we know balance is breaking the game so is scaling there is so much problems

there is no reason to hate tinker is been part around wow for a while
oil thing was in warcraft 2

to be honest i hear more people wanting tinker then ranger

and i am really bios i want many tinker more right now becus i dont really enjoy the class changed bfa did in retail i can bearly enjoy playing beast master since my favorite marksman spec was changed to fit bow and ranger more yes that prooves we need ranger to be its own class

but then again engineering wuld be alot more useful if it culd make stuff for both hunter and tinker that wuld help a profession if blizzard can get it right
i already said we more then 1 class in the same expansion no reason to push to win a argument why tinker should not be a thing that is a loop argument that makes you look like you hate little people in real life and i hope you dont do that

[Kumorii]

To be fair, Blizzard could just as easily completely skip the death theme next expansion and not even feature Sylvanad at all. We could get a more MoP style, light hearted expansion instead. Or they could go with a death heavy expansion and still not prominently feature Sylvanas at all and save her for another day. It could be all Bolvar instead.

Blizzard jumps in and out of themes pretty randomly between expansions.

I'm not entirely sure it's gonna be about Sylvanas anyway, I suspect her arc to end at 8.3 since she probably will have an appearance during the N'Zoth fight or cinematic afterwards. And yeah, I suspect Bolvar is gonna play a big role, not sure if a protagonist or antagonist. Not sure if they wanna do a repeat of WotLK and instead have a spin of some part of "death" becoming an ally.

The entire Lich King arc is confusing to me. I don't know if Ner'Zhul and Arthas fused or if Arthas "won" and became the lich King. If so, wouldn't Bolvar practically have it's own will? If so why would he go bad?
If he did go bad it could be that his mental battle vs Lich king aka Ner'zhul or a mix of Arthas + Ner'zhul is something he starts to lose.

Who knows though.

[Dragtox]

All of the HotS and WC3 Tinker abilities are ranged. The mech components (claw pack or mech) are melee. Additionally, the Tinker NPCs are all ranged and use guns.

y i can mostly only see meele as tank spec and hope the rest are ranged based since it be nice to have more ranged dps again

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I'm not entirely sure it's gonna be about Sylvanas anyway, I suspect her arc to end at 8.3 since she probably will have an appearance during the N'Zoth fight or cinematic afterwards. And yeah, I suspect Bolvar is gonna play a big role, not sure if a protagonist or antagonist. Not sure if they wanna do a repeat of WotLK and instead have a spin of some part of "death" becoming an ally.

The entire Lich King arc is confusing to me. I don't know if Ner'Zhul and Arthas fused or if Arthas "won" and became the lich King. If so, wouldn't Bolvar practically have it's own will? If so why would he go bad?
If he did go bad it could be that his mental battle vs Lich king aka Ner'zhul or a mix of Arthas + Ner'zhul is something he starts to lose.

Who knows though.

i think it be a mistake if it is based on sylvanas then we may get a tyrande vs sylvanas like thrall vs garrosh

[Teriz]

y i can mostly only see meele as tank spec and hope the rest are ranged based since it be nice to have more ranged dps again

Agreed.
Mech= Tanking,
Bombs, turrets, robotic summons, lasers = RDPS
Healing Spray, Bio Grenades, Healing bots = Healing

[Teriz]

It's a melee class in lore and you are just "hoping" it might be ranged because of a non canon game.

While HotS isn't canon, the characters in HotS are canon, and their abilities in HotS are their abilities in WoW.