[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Slant]

I have, which is why I see it for what it is, the pragmatic voice, the calmer head that usually prevails while Macron and others have been more vocal in expressing their frustrations.

True. And Germany's voice carries some weight. But what you may be unaware of is the amount of people that are sick with Brexit and sick with the UK being a difficult child in all of this. This is purely a political question now. The continent's economies are behind their politicians. Yes, even the German auto industry is actually quite alright with the UK crashing out if it means the EU can move on swiftly. And if it becomes politically opportune to deny the extension, these politicians might just veto it. Do you know anything about the political discussion in Lithuania? I don't. Are you sure there is not one country in the 26 where a politician might not cash in some political capital by being the hardliner in this? Hungary maybe? Poland? I wouldn't presume to know what they're debating in their cabinets. And Belgium has shown us that sometimes even small regions can throw a wrench into the gears to almost stop a giant FTA with Canada...

This is very much a game of chance. And the cards are stacked against you.

If the HoC rejects this deal, which some people say is rather likely, why would it be in the interest of the EU to grant another extension? This is a question British people usually respond with "to not let the UK fall into ruin" or some other nonsense. But they don't get the question. It's the old "The British are the centre of the world" type thinking.

So, you give it a shot... what would the EU get out of an extension. Just us, because this is us deciding. What would you put on the table to make it juicy for us? Because what we got on the table is "moving on and ending this shitshow that's hurting our economies already and is distracting from the actual political topics we ought to address".

[mojojojo202]

Ahm, 3 years now to nothing thanks to a referendum.

We have gone somewhere; up shit creek.

We did forget to bring a paddle though.

[Dizzeeyooo]

A referendum with defined end points will always lead somewhere.

Ahm, 3 years now to nothing thanks to a referendum.

Thank you, I should have been more specific from the start

[nRes]

I wonder what happens if the UK ends up revoking Brexit. It will be really unfair for them to just "Nope" out of this and keep their current benefits over the other member states.

They dragged the EU through the mud for 3 years and what now, they get to just wave it all away and go back to how it was before? How is that fair to the rest of the Union?

[Jessicka]

True. And Germany's voice carries some weight. But what you may be unaware of is the amount of people that are sick with Brexit and sick with the UK being a difficult child in all of this. This is purely a political question now. The continent's economies are behind their politicians. Yes, even the German auto industry is actually quite alright with the UK crashing out if it means the EU can move on swiftly. And if it becomes politically opportune to deny the extension, these politicians might just veto it. Do you know anything about the political discussion in Lithuania? I don't. Are you sure there is not one country in the 26 where a politician might not cash in some political capital by being the hardliner in this? Hungary maybe? Poland? I wouldn't presume to know what they're debating in their cabinets. And Belgium has shown us that sometimes even small regions can throw a wrench into the gears to almost stop a giant FTA with Canada...

This is very much a game of chance. And the cards are stacked against you.

If the HoC rejects this deal, which some people say is rather likely, why would it be in the interest of the EU to grant another extension? This is a question British people usually respond with "to not let the UK fall into ruin" or some other nonsense. But they don't get the question. It's the old "The British are the centre of the world" type thinking.

So, you give it a shot... what would the EU get out of an extension. Just us, because this is us deciding. What would you put on the table to make it juicy for us? Because what we got on the table is "moving on and ending this shitshow that's hurting our economies already and is distracting from the actual political topics we ought to address".

What does everyone get?

Time to prepare properly and knowing what they’re actually preparing for. I think that’s kind of a big deal on its own. We’ve been bombarded with adds saying prepare for Brexit, but even the sparse information given can’t actually articulate what that means or requires.

I presume that works for both sides.

Furthermore, if we do go down the route of another referendum, again, one way or another there’s a definite answer and no real further discussion or waiting.

At this point, even if it passes on Saturday, it’s incredibly short notice in respect to actually understanding and ensuring compliance.

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I wonder what happens if the UK ends up revoking Brexit. It will be really unfair for them to just "Nope" out of this and keep their current benefits over the other member states.

They dragged the EU through the mud for 3 years and what now, they get to just wave it all away and go back to how it was before? How is that fair to the rest of the Union?

Nothing. People will be pissed but we just move on.

[Slant]

What does everyone get?

Time to prepare properly and knowing what they’re actually preparing for. I think that’s kind of a big deal on its own. We’ve been bombarded with adds saying prepare for Brexit, but even the sparse information given can’t actually articulate what that means or requires.

I presume that works for both sides.

Furthermore, if we do go down the route of another referendum, again, one way or another there’s a definite answer and no real further discussion or waiting.

At this point, even if it passes on Saturday, it’s incredibly short notice in respect to actually understanding and ensuring compliance.

The EU is prepared. We're just waiting for the UK to make up its mind by now. The EU actually did something in the last 3 years. So... what else you got? I'm not meaning to put you on the spot, but it's fun to see if anyone can actually come up with something that would motivate everyone to really be in favour of extending instead of just going "meh." about it.

From the EU's point of view, the second referendum would only be interesting if it was done properly and could lead to a realisation that the first was actually a fluke. And of course, the hope that A50 will be revoked. A mixed hope, by now, because the UK must be considered a rotten fruit within the EU by now.

Put it clearly, if you stay in the EU, it will not be much easier for you guys than if you got out. The UK has lost its leadership role either way. And the UK won't be getting it back easily. Too many bridges have been burnt. And for any kind of internal exception the UK gets, it will have a much, much harder time getting it.

See, Cameron destroyed the one leverage you have, leaving the EU. Nobody will give a fuck in the future if the UK threatens that. They'll just go "So? Go ahead, turned out well last time, didn't it?"

[Jessicka]

The EU is prepared. We're just waiting for the UK to make up its mind by now. The EU actually did something in the last 3 years. So... what else you got? I'm not meant to put you on the spot, but it's fun to see if anyone can actually come up with something that would motivate everyone to really be in favour of extending instead of just going "meh." about it.

From the EU's point of view, the second referendum would only be interesting if it was done properly and could lead to a realisation that the first was actually a fluke.

There's a lot of space between no-deal a deal, and remain. The EU's preparations were for no deal, or remain, not that space in between. Same goes for British side. It's also on individuals and companies to do that preparation, not just governments, and of course given the expense and time taken for that preparation, much of that private preparation has been put off, on both sides, until they know what they actually need to do for certain. They might have built up contingencies and made plans; but not yet actually acted on it, and those plans were likely inadequate or incorrect for whatever reason.

Like for example, last time around many companies stockpiled in preparation, there has been much less of that this time, and much of that stockpile sold off or expired. That leaves everyone behind.

What will be interesting will be to see what companies will no longer supply to the UK after Brexit because they aren't set up correctly.

[Slant]

There's a lot of space between no-deal a deal, and remain. The EU's preparations were for no deal, or remain, not that space in between. Same goes for British side. It's also on individuals and companies to do that preparation, not just governments, and of course given the expense and time taken for that preparation, much of that private preparation has been put off, on both sides, until they know what they actually need to do for certain. They might have built up contingencies and made plans; but not yet actually acted on it, and those plans were likely inadequate or incorrect for whatever reason.

Like for example, last time around many companies stockpiled in preparation, there has been much less of that this time, and much of that stockpile sold off or expired. That leaves everyone behind.

What will be interesting will be to see what companies will no longer supply to the UK after Brexit because they aren't set up correctly.

You're speculating and hoping again. You can continue to ignore that Europeans from the whole continent tell you that we're sick of it and would rather eat a no-deal than have this shitshow continue... or you can hope that for some reason only known to the British the continent is scared of no-deal.

In Europe there is no stockpiling. We are not depending on the UK alone to provide goods to us, what we do is simply buy somewhere else. The only stockpiling going on in Europe is in the UK. Do you understand how distorted your view is? Why I'm saying you're speculating and hoping?

All companies will continue to supply to the UK to fill your demand. In a no-deal scenario not much would change, except that you'd pay up to 30% customs tariffs as per the glorified WTO rules that your Brexiteer fascists like so much. You still need to eat. You still need to have medicine readily available. As for luxury goods, I don't know how often I hear British people telling me that Europe will crumble because we might not sell to the UK. Have you looked at the trade volume the EU is doing lately? If you don't buy from us, we'll sell somewhere else. We don't care who buys our stuff. We have FTAs or at least negotiated trade agreements in some form with every single country on the planet, with the exception of some obscure African state that I forgot everytime I point this out.

Go on, have another go. I'm not convinced, yet.

[Lollis]

You're speculating and hoping again. You can continue to ignore that Europeans from the whole continent tell you that we're sick of it and would rather eat a no-deal than have this shitshow continue... or you can hope that for some reason only known to the British the continent is scared of no-deal.

In Europe there is no stockpiling. We are not depending on the UK alone to provide goods to us, what we do is simply buy somewhere else. The only stockpiling going on in Europe is in the UK. Do you understand how distorted your view is? Why I'm saying you're speculating and hoping?

All companies will continue to supply to the UK to fill your demand. In a no-deal scenario not much would change, except that you'd pay up to 30% customs tariffs as per the glorified WTO rules that your Brexiteer fascists like so much. You still need to eat. You still need to have medicine readily available. As for luxury goods, I don't know how often I hear British people telling me that Europe will crumble because we might not sell to the UK. Have you looked at the trade volume the EU is doing lately?

Go on, have another go. I'm not convinced, yet.

I'm quite sure all the countries of Europe with their terrible food are stocking up on the likes of our delicious pork pies, black pudding, and superior English wines and beers. Right? Right?

Just another one of those things these idiots don't get. The EU will just wave and say bye and very little will change for them. The UK is going to be presented with an almost instantaneous loss of multiple products.

[Lollis]

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2019/10...rexitvoorstel/

Verhofstadt: "This is basically the exact same May deal... 《grin》".

It's how these people work. "Honestly, it's nothing like May's deal, see we used blue ink, not black"

[Gorsameth]

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2019/10...rexitvoorstel/

Verhofstadt: "This is basically the exact same May deal... 《grin》".

Small correction. He says its the deal the EU originally proposed to the UK, not that it's May's deal.
May rejected this deal because it crossed a red line for the UK, treating NI differently from the rest of the UK.

[Slant]

I'm quite sure all the countries of Europe with their terrible food are stocking up on the likes of our delicious pork pies, black pudding, and superior English wines and beers. Right? Right?

Just another one of those things these idiots don't get. The EU will just wave and say bye and very little will change for them. The UK is going to be presented with an almost instantaneous loss of multiple products.

Yeah, I'm just sorry I have to point it out so bluntly. It would be horrible for you lot. Oh, you would survive and another British survival myth be created, but it is so pointless... so unnecessary.

And then, you have people still not getting that this is the EU playing nicely. Nobody on this planet has ever had so "easy" negotiations with the EU. And no one will ever have the EU trying to help them as much as they can while negotiating like this ever again. Sometimes the little bastard in me wishes Brexiteers would get to face an EU that flexes its economic muscles for real... just once. Just so they know what kind of a hulk the EU actually is.

[Jessicka]

You're speculating and hoping again. You can continue to ignore that Europeans from the whole continent tell you that we're sick of it and would rather eat a no-deal than have this shitshow continue... or you can hope that for some reason only known to the British the continent is scared of no-deal.

In Europe there is no stockpiling. We are not depending on the UK alone to provide goods to us, what we do is simply buy somewhere else. The only stockpiling going on in Europe is in the UK. Do you understand how distorted your view is? Why I'm saying you're speculating and hoping?

All companies will continue to supply to the UK to fill your demand. In a no-deal scenario not much would change, except that you'd pay up to 30% customs tariffs as per the glorified WTO rules that your Brexiteer fascists like so much. You still need to eat. You still need to have medicine readily available. As for luxury goods, I don't know how often I hear British people telling me that Europe will crumble because we might not sell to the UK. Have you looked at the trade volume the EU is doing lately? If you don't buy from us, we'll sell somewhere else. We don't care who buys our stuff. We have FTAs or at least negotiated trade agreements in some form with every single country on the planet, with the exception of some obscure African state that I forgot everytime I point this out.

Go on, have another go. I'm not convinced, yet.

You do understand that Just in Time manufacturing works both ways across the channel, right? And we sell you a lot of pharmaceuticals. Literally we have shortages here, because we're flogging them to European stockpiles because it's more profitable than selling them direct to the UK market.

[Lollis]

Yeah, I'm just sorry I have to point it out so bluntly. It would be horrible for you lot. Oh, you would survive and another British survival myth be created, but it is so pointless... so unnecessary.

And in 50 years (according to that jrm cunt) when we start feeling the benefits, we can look back and say:

"See, we managed to neuter ourselves for HALF A FUCKING CENTURY, but we're back now"

If I was so inclined I'd love for it to completely blow up and go completely to shit just to show those morons exactly how idiotic they were, unfortunately I'm not quite so self destructive, and it'd probably only lead them to blaming everyone else even more anyway.

[Jessicka]

So the fucking lunatics in the ERG are now looking to get a no deal at the end of 2020.

https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/st...45415013937152

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And in 50 years (according to that jrm cunt) when we start feeling the benefits, we can look back and say:

"See, we managed to neuter ourselves for HALF A FUCKING CENTURY, but we're back now"

If I was so inclined I'd love for it to completely blow up and go completely to shit just to show those morons exactly how idiotic they were, unfortunately I'm not quite so self destructive, and it'd probably only lead them to blaming everyone else even more anyway.

The problem here is, no matter how destructive it would be, these are not the people who would actually suffer.

[Slant]

You do understand that Just in Time manufacturing works both ways across the channel, right? And we sell you a lot of pharmaceuticals. Literally we have shortages here, because we're flogging them to European stockpiles because it's more profitable than selling them direct to the UK market.

You just believe that... you're so good at it. But you must believe strongly.

[Jessicka]

Here is the thing though. Which side of the Channel do you think suppliers will move to create new, functional supply chains?

Doesn't matter if they're not built and up and running already. And setting up a pharmaceutical manufacturing facility is not a quick or simple process, it then needs to then have its own suppliers in order as well.

If it was simple, they've had them going back in March.

[Slant]

The problem here is, no matter how destructive it would be, these are not the people who would actually suffer.

Newspapers are reporting that Brexit-areas would suffer the most. So it's not all bad. Even if you won't get the ERG. Btw, they'll be filthy rich by then. Well, more so than now anyway.

[Jessicka]

You just believe that... you're so good at it. But you must believe strongly.

We literally just banned the sale of a lot of pharma to outside the NHS to shore up those medicines because of where they were ending up. So yeah, I believe it 'strongly'.

[Slant]

We literally just banned the sale of a lot of pharma to outside the NHS to shore up those medicines because of where they were ending up. So yeah, I believe it 'strongly'.

Ok, here's a reality check for you:

The EU Medical Agency has already moved to Amsterdam: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/about-u...n-union-brexit

Here's a Guardian article about what the big pharmas are doing:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...tical-industry



Now, you tell me... how exactly is this not a good thing for the EU? If we wanted to make more profit, we would absolutely shut you down right now. That we're not doing it is because we're playing nice. So, tell me again... what are you putting on the table that would motivate the EU to grant you another extension? It's certainly not interrupted supply chains or pharma. What else you got?