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  1. #81
    Bloodsail Admiral Pigglix's Avatar
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    As long they dont pull a ff14 with ability bloat and bullshit abilities just for the sake of "lul new xpack lets give them moar buttons!" im all for it

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I really hope this is true. The fact that my Mage somehow instantly forgets how to cast e.g. Arcane Explosion the moment he specs Fire, has always been quite aggravating to me. Your spellbook shouldn't be just your raid rotation.
    Thats becouse you guys mix gameplay mechanics with lore. Respecing specs is game mechanic just to server as way to change your class but fact you could use previsouly fire spells and now you cant is noncanon. When you spec to frost your mage was simply attuned to frost from beggining and fact you have been previsouly fire is no longer canon story for your mage.

    Also you are all.delusional if you think adding other specs skills will change anything. You wont use them anyway becouse they will always be weaker than your speced skills. What possible use would have fireball in your bar when you can cast frostbolt what does slow and much higher dmg? Only thing what will Blizz bring back are some cross spec utiliti skills.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    In my opinion it would be awesome if classes at max level had access to all spells/abilities. Talents should just enhance certain abilities like back in the days. So a dps Death Knight would always have both frost and unholy abilities available. We should have the option of how specialized we want to be.

    So basically I want the old type of class design back... in a modern version maybe.
    They tried that, that's why we lost the old Talent Trees, "They are too Cookie cutter, if you don't take the exact talent selection, you're not going to be brought along in raid"(or something to that nature they said), well no matter what system they use their will always be a Cookie cutter best option.

  4. #84
    If there's one thing I want back from vanilla, it's being able to mix and match.

    Anyone claiming the old talent were good because they were meaningful is wrong, but the golden part of the oldies was being able play proper hybrid. Like Fury tank.

  5. #85
    Bloodsail Admiral Pigglix's Avatar
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    What if blizz remove the talent trees and and the only customization option the player have is to choose their spec?

    By removing the talent tree, it dosent mean they're removing the abilities, you will just get them autmaticly without having to decide wich one.

  6. #86
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Thats becouse you guys mix gameplay mechanics with lore. Respecing specs is game mechanic just to server as way to change your class but fact you could use previsouly fire spells and now you cant is noncanon. When you spec to frost your mage was simply attuned to frost from beggining and fact you have been previsouly fire is no longer canon story for your mage.

    Also you are all.delusional if you think adding other specs skills will change anything. You wont use them anyway becouse they will always be weaker than your speced skills. What possible use would have fireball in your bar when you can cast frostbolt what does slow and much higher dmg? Only thing what will Blizz bring back are some cross spec utiliti skills.
    No. By that reasoning, a frost Mage shouldn't be able to cast sheep or portals. After all, he is "attuned" (rofl teh headcanon) to just frost, so nO ArC sPelLZ 4 U!1!1!!1!

    Of course a fire Mage's arcane explosion will be weaker than an arcane Mage's. No, probably you won't use it in your typical raid. So what? That's what I meant when I said that your spellbook should be more than your raid rotation. If you don't want to use the extra skills, then don't use them. But the game is more than raids, you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I do mythic raiding and I don’t necessarily see it impacting balancing if most rotations would end up being the same as now. I’m not saying that fire abilities should be a part of the rotation if you’re a frost mage but they should just still be available even if they are useless for raiding.. purely for class identity reasons.

    So basically your spell books would be full of useless spells for raiding... but I want that.
    I am all for non-optimized skills, just for a RP sake. Like sense undead back then things like that, or the things warlocks had and were removed I think. This is a RPG. Now mixing spec widly, I am not too sure this could not make the game unbalanced quickly..

  8. #88
    Banned CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    In my opinion it would be awesome if classes at max level had access to all spells/abilities. Talents should just enhance certain abilities like back in the days. So a dps Death Knight would always have both frost and unholy abilities available. We should have the option of how specialized we want to be.

    So basically I want the old type of class design back... in a modern version maybe.
    I think there should be a set of basic skills available to the whole class not just a spec, but I think specs should have more core abilities, like your rotation should legit change based on your spec, just getting passive talents is really boring.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    No. By that reasoning, a frost Mage shouldn't be able to cast sheep or portals. After all, he is "attuned" (rofl teh headcanon) to just frost, so nO ArC sPelLZ 4 U!1!1!!1!

    Of course a fire Mage's arcane explosion will be weaker than an arcane Mage's. No, probably you won't use it in your typical raid. So what? That's what I meant when I said that your spellbook should be more than your raid rotation. If you don't want to use the extra skills, then don't use them. But the game is more than raids, you know.
    Yes it is. And you wont have any use for those skills anyway. This is not classic. Nothing outside of raids or mythic dungeons is threat to you. You dont need to slow down mobs with frostbolt becouse you simply aoe down 20 mobs in 3 seconds anyway. It made sense back in classic and tbc becouse mobs were actual threat so you would use your entire spell book to your advantage. There is nothing, absolutly nothing in the world content what would requare you to use any other spec skills.
    Last edited by Elias01; 2019-10-18 at 05:20 PM.

  10. #90
    Banned docterfreeze's Avatar
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    I think that's their plan based on what ion said in the 8.2 showcase.

  11. #91
    From a game play and balancing perspective, I understand why they took them away based on the current class design.

    From a lore and logic perspective, it never made sense to me why my Frost mage all of a sudden forgot how to cast Fireball, why my Survival Hunter forgot how to use bows, why my Frost Death Knight can't use Unholy or use a 2-handed weapon, why my Demonology Warlock can't use Incinerate, etc...

  12. #92
    Banned docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Yes it is. And you wont have any use for those skills anyway. This is not classic. Nothing outside of raids or mythic dungeons is threat to you. You dont need to slow down mobs with frostbolt becouse you simply aoe down 20 mobs in 3 seconds anyway. It made sense back in classic and tbc becouse mobs were actual threat so you would use your entire spell book to your advantage. There is nothing, absolutly nothing in the world content what would requare you to use any other spec skills.
    PvP is a viable endgame activity

  13. #93
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Yes it is. And you wont have any use for those skills anyway. This is not classic. Nothing outside of raids or mythic dungeons is threat to you. You dont need to slow down mobs with frostbolt becouse you simply aoe down 20 mobs in 3 seconds anyway. It made sense back in classic and tbc becouse mobs were actual threat so you would use your entire spell book to your advantage. There is nothing, absolutly nothing in the world content what would requare you to use any other spec skills.
    If anything, that's something that should change as well. And PvP is viable endgame, even if you don't participate.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    If anything, that's something that should change as well. And PvP is viable endgame, even if you don't participate.
    Its something what didnt changed since wotlk and wont change anytime soon. Casual content will never have danger in it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    PvP is a viable endgame activity
    Hard to say if you would use other skills even in pvp. Using frosbolt in fire spec to slow down player seems cool but fire alredy have its own snares and cc which will be still more viable than trying to cast frostbolt. People used to use like rank 1 spells for quick snare but since we no longer have ranks it would propably wont be worth of cast compared to much stronger dmg spell

  15. #95
    drop this stupid ass idea already

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Retail is not classic. Don't bring too much classic in retail. If you like the specs in classic where basically 2/3 of specs were useless... go play classic. But please don't change retail to something wow was 15! years ago. That is not compatible anymore
    BS, certain specs in classic are trash becuase blizzard designed them to be such. There are numerous ways to bring them up, but alas, "classic is classic" and they will forever stay... bad.
    Doesn't mean that you'd see rets or hunters as #1 dps but they would be viable enough; besides classic/vanilla is way more fluid in terms of "holy trinity", especially in dungeons so a well enough performing dps with some support capabilities is FINE.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    Anyone claiming the old talent were good because they were meaningful is wrong, but the golden part of the oldies was being able play proper hybrid. Like Fury tank.
    A fundamental issue with this mindset is how specializations work and affect your character.
    A major difference from classic to retail is how the classes were rather basic despite being specialized into something.

    People already realized that deep Prot had barely any serious impact on your threat output or damage reduction, thus a lot of people put like ~17 points into Prot for the important talents, then dumped the rest into Fury, because there was no point in it and the additional threat from Fury was helpful.

    On top of that, Content was simply designed around that obvious lack, without any proper damage reduction talents, the bosses obviously did not hit as hard because there was no way to improve defense outside of gear.

    It simply died down because specializations received actually decent talents, another example is (off)healing, in Classic a Shaman without a lot of points into Resto could still heal pretty decently if he had the proper gear.
    Then BC came and the trouble started, you lacked talents like Improved CH (20% bonus on CH) Nature's Blessing (30% Int as SP) and so forth, you most certainly started to note a difference.

    Then Wotlk came and Resto got stuff like Riptide, then the discrepancy became absolutely obvious, you simply sucked as a healer unless you're deep into Resto.


    Hybrid specs, at least in the case of Tank / Healer, worked in Classic because those talent trees sucked so hard that the baseline tools of a spec usually sufficed to fulfill that role.
    With those specs however getting proper tools in TBC / Wotlk, that just no longer worked, because then content was also designed around a role having certain tools, a Tank simply needed those powerful passives from the Prot tree to not just roll over against any remotely hard hitting boss.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    I think that's their plan based on what ion said in the 8.2 showcase.
    I am not too sure I like this, because it will end to one class with three minor variations, essentially pruning present 3 spec, to just one. But that's how I see it presently.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Balancing basically. If you merge the specs you basically again have only one spec you HAVE to play because it is going to be so much better.

    Right now the specs are at least so close to each other, that most poeple don't care what you play unless you pug high level keys.

    Retail is not classic. Don't bring too much classic in retail. If you like the specs in classic where basically 2/3 of specs were useless... go play classic. But please don't change retail to something wow was 15! years ago. That is not compatible anymore
    We aren't even talking about Classic. There were multiple expansions between Vanilla and BFA. Stop using this excuse to shut people down on this issue.
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2019-10-18 at 05:44 PM.

  20. #100
    Banned docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Hard to say if you would use other skills even in pvp. Using frosbolt in fire spec to slow down player seems cool but fire alredy have its own snares and cc which will be still more viable than trying to cast frostbolt. People used to use like rank 1 spells for quick snare but since we no longer have ranks it would propably wont be worth of cast compared to much stronger dmg spell
    Likely not frostbolt, but cone of cold and blizzard for sure since they're instant. Fire currently would have to either burn a hot streak on an ability that does almost no damage or hardcast a very long spell to apply a snare. Blizzard was also useful for breaking stealth from range, and arcane explosion for breaking stealth in melee. Fire blast for frost/arcane was used to get rid of grounding totem, spell reflect, and low health totems.

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