WoW 9.0 Who is Death?

[Sanguinerd]

I just knew reading the title some nutjob would say Argus

I'm guessing "Death" is something we havn't seen before.

[Vakir]

I just can't full buy into Sylvanas being benched when she's the focus character for BlizzCon.

[KrakHed]

I just can't full buy into Sylvanas being benched when she's the focus character for BlizzCon.

If she ends up in three expansion cinematics in a row, I'm going to be annoyed.

[lostsoup]

I imagine she'll play a role at the start of the expansion then have focus shifted to other things.

Also, an awful idea just occurred to me, what if Tinkers got added as a Hunter spec since Survival already has bombs and the like? lol

[Vakir]

If she ends up in three expansion cinematics in a row, I'm going to be annoyed.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like it anymore than anyone else. I think we're in danger of Sylvanas fatigue the same way WoD brought orc fatigue after Mists. It just seems telegraphed. Especially with the black mist around her to make it more recent. If she was just a random throwaway character for lack of any other way to not spoil the next chapter, they wouldn't have gone that route.

[KrakHed]

Don't get me wrong, I don't like it anymore than anyone else. I think we're in danger of Sylvanas fatigue the same way WoD brought orc fatigue after Mists. It just seems telegraphed. Especially with the black mist around her to make it more recent. If she was just a random throwaway character for lack of any other way to not spoil the next chapter, they wouldn't have gone that route.

Blizzard should really try to fit character arcs into one expansion.

[Traveler Voltin]

Blizzard should really try to fit character arcs into one expansion.

that is really boring

[KrakHed]

that is really boring

Quite the opposite actually. It means they have to actually pack the story into one expansion instead of spreading it over years and years until we're all 50. Waiting for WoW's plot to develop is slow as fuck, and each patch barely gives any story. They should tell character stories faster and get to the next story with other characters so we don't get worn out.

[Vakir]

Blizzard should really try to fit character arcs into one expansion.

They managed it with Illidan and Jaina, after the latter's breaking point. And the former was MIA for the first third of his expansion, even. Whether you wanna call it GOOD or not, at least you can say they are more or less done.

But with Sylvanas, they made this...bizarre slow-burn for something that was both transparently obvious and didn't require the build.

It ended up being a stupid answer to an interesting question. "What could it be? Has she been evil all along? Did she REALLY burn down this tree? Did she really---" YEP.

Like, WHY did this go on so long?

[Three Faced Goddess]

Allied races are the new "It" thing. New classes are going to become the same way that way the class isn't tied to the expansion's narrative. That's....down the road a bit though

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Sylvanas has had her time in the limelight. Her arc has lasted almost as long as Thrall's, if not longer.

Thank you for answering me and not ignoring me. I really hope I get the allied race I want as I've wanted it ever since I first started in BC after I read Sylvanas' backstory and the lore behind Blood Elves, Banshees and Dark Rangers. If there's hope for undead elves or dark rangers, I'll continue to play. Not really any of the allied races have appealed to me so far.

Its too bad tinkers the next class though. It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for some of its ruder more obsessive fans.

[Khaza-R]

My theory is Elune is the goddess of Life and Mueh'zala (name may change) is her counter part and the god of Death

I think one of the overlooked pieces of imagery in BfA was the similarity between the blood moon in Nazmir and the black moon in Darkshore. The blood moon is specifically tied to Bwonsamdi who serves an unknown master and seemingly appears from another dimension - possibly the Shadowlands - when he uses his powers. I feel like Mueh'zala is the Shadowlands version of Elune. Instead of light he brings darkness, instead of life he brings death.

[Mehrunes]

Sylvanas is likely equating herself with death at this point. She already said the "all will serve death" in Three Sisters comic. But then she followed it up with "all will serve me". So the equation mark between death and Sylvanas is quite strong there. Chances are that after Genn fucked her chance at immortality over, she grew even more radical in her attempts at getting it and decided to become a death entity and carve up a part of the Shadowlands for herself, Helya acting as an inspiration for her.

Now, there are two bits that put that theory in question. First is Sylvanas talking about feeding souls to the hungering dark. Second is Azshara's remark from the vision of her bargain with Sylvanas about her knowing what Sylvanas wants to unleash upon Azeroth. But it may not necessarily indicate a death entity that Sylvanas works for. Perhaps by sacrificing souls to Shadowlands she inadvertently feeds all its current denizens too. Which could be used by a more malevolent one like Muez'hala to strike against Azeroth in the next expansion with Sylvanas simply not giving a shit anymore as she intends to leave it for the Shadowlands anyway.

Quite the opposite actually. It means they have to actually pack the story into one expansion instead of spreading it over years and years until we're all 50. Waiting for WoW's plot to develop is slow as fuck, and each patch barely gives any story. They should tell character stories faster and get to the next story with other characters so we don't get worn out.

It's Blizzard. Even if they picked up the pace and crammed a character's story into one expansion they'd do it at the expense of the amount of the material that makes this story. There wouldn't be any more story per patch. So you'd only end up with a shallow and even more rushed character arc.

Though arguably it is indeed preferable. The less of a story each character has the less it gets raped by Blizzard as they contort the character around the story they want to tell.

[KrakHed]

They managed it with Illidan and Jaina, after the latter's breaking point. And the former was MIA for the first third of his expansion, even. Whether you wanna call it GOOD or not, at least you can say they are more or less done.

But with Sylvanas, they made this...bizarre slow-burn for something that was both transparently obvious and didn't require the build.

It ended up being a stupid answer to an interesting question. "What could it be? Has she been evil all along? Did she REALLY burn down this tree? Did she really---" YEP.

Like, WHY did this go on so long?

Yeah. That's what I think they should do. Use a spotlight character for an expansion, then move them into the background after their development is complete. They can still be doing things, but it shouldn't be their story anymore. If the arc is going to be continuing over expansions, it should be because they weren't much of a focus in the first place, or it should represent a new story for them. Prolonging it over three expansions would be awful.

[Mehrunes]

Yeah. That's what I think they should do. Use a spotlight character for an expansion, then move them into the background after their development is complete. They can still be doing things, but it shouldn't be their story anymore. If the arc is going to be continuing over expansions, it should be because they weren't much of a focus in the first place, or it should represent a new story for them. Prolonging it over three expansions would be awful.

You kinda described Sylvanas in Legion then. Kinda undermining the entire source of this argument of yours. And the other alternative describes her in BfA as BfA Sylvanas is a result of Before the Storm fucking the entire Forsaken lore in the ass with a ten foot dildo.

[Trumpcat]

I wouldn't want them to change character focus every expansion, I like this feeling of an ongoing story with several characters that I build different feelings towards. The story should flow much faster though. You can't do 10 minutes of storytelling with a cliffhanger for months. These cliffhangers work on TV series that keep you watching every week or every day.

Sylvanas was made a Warchief more than 3 years ago. Since then she's been doing evil in books and cutscenes, but there has been no development whatsoever: we knew she doesn't care about the Horde (unless if we were fanbois in denial), we knew "something" pulled the strings to make her a warchief and we knew she has an agenda on her own.
But 3+ years is now two expansions and we still know nothing that we didn't already know.

So who/what is "death" and why it wants Sylvanas to do what she does? Perhaps "death" is like the Light with no singular physical representation. I'd imagine Kel'thuzad will be doing a return, but I doubt he is the entity in the background.

Yes, lots of things happened in BfA story-wise, more than any previous expansion, but the big plot element remains untouched. It's way too long. Either bigger volume or faster pace, Blizzord! Kthxbye

[Dismayxz]

My theory is Elune is the goddess of Life and Mueh'zala (name may change) is her counter part and the god of Death

I think one of the overlooked pieces of imagery in BfA was the similarity between the blood moon in Nazmir and the black moon in Darkshore. The blood moon is specifically tied to Bwonsamdi who serves an unknown master and seemingly appears from another dimension - possibly the Shadowlands - when he uses his powers. I feel like Mueh'zala is the Shadowlands version of Elune. Instead of light he brings darkness, instead of life he brings death.

I think an even more unpopular guess would be that, while yes, the theory sounds cool. Having Elune and Mueh'zala be at odds. But whether either is any god of anything.. and correct me if I'm off here (mainly on the timeline for the existence of the Loa), but.. wouldn't that make more sense if Elune was a Loa as well? Which I wouldn't deem impossible personally, considering that Night Elves are basically just an evolutionary step after trolls? When did they actually start worshipping Elune? The trolls had their Empire far before the nightelves existed, if I remember this correctly.

And more importantly... both theories are completely stupid, if Khadgar alluding to Elune possibly being linked with the Naaru is actually.. well... true?

[KrakHed]

You kinda described Sylvanas in Legion then. Kinda undermining the entire source of this argument of yours. And the other alternative describes her in BfA as BfA Sylvanas is a result of Before the Storm fucking the entire Forsaken lore in the ass with a ten foot dildo.

I'm saying that her plot should have been finished in BFA. But now she's been the main plot driver, even if barely present, to the degree that I just don't want to put up with the horseshit around her.

[withpuppys]

There is no secret behind-the-scene plan she has like Illidan did for the Legion.

except we know she has a secret plan, she even thinks about in the good war and how elune opposes her on it. there is even a letter to nathanos that you can find that talks about the end game that they are building towards

[Shinrael]

Argus

He's the only one that killed us without us being able to release without interference of another Titan (of Life)

His defeat was just us freeing him from the Pantheon and allowing him to return to his domain

Also Sargeras decided to stab Azeroth with his sword only AFTER he realized that we've defeated Argus and freed the Pantheon. And his sword was imbued with the red (Death) essence of Argus (that was being sucked out of the world soul in Antorus). The reason he stabbed Azeroth (which he could've done plenty of times while we were fighting Argus if his goal was to kill her) might have been because he wanted to save Argus from the Pantheon? So they don't imprison him within a planet again (as you find out they did in the Thousand Years War audiodrama). So basically we have Argus hiding on our planet and only he can bring us True Death.

EDIT: ALSO. When did Sylvanas go NOTHING LASTS mentality? Patch 7.3.5 when she touched the Azerite shard which is a byproduct of the blood of Azeroth and the essence of Argus (if my theory above is correct). As a character who is probably the most intimate with Death, surely if anyone could see that Azerite isn't just Azeroth's blood but has the Essence of Death intermingled with it, surely it would be her, no? Which would explain so many of her story this expansion and why she said "This will change everything."

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I think an even more unpopular guess would be that, while yes, the theory sounds cool. Having Elune and Mueh'zala be at odds. But whether either is any god of anything.. and correct me if I'm off here (mainly on the timeline for the existence of the Loa), but.. wouldn't that make more sense if Elune was a Loa as well? Which I wouldn't deem impossible personally, considering that Night Elves are basically just an evolutionary step after trolls? When did they actually start worshipping Elune? The trolls had their Empire far before the nightelves existed, if I remember this correctly.

And more importantly... both theories are completely stupid, if Khadgar alluding to Elune possibly being linked with the Naaru is actually.. well... true?

No, because Mueh'zella isn't a Loa. In some Troll sources it is listed as a Troll Loa indeed but the Death entity that has been hinted at throughout BFA might not be Mueh'zella. Point is that there is an all-powerful Death god-esque being that we have yet to see and either Bwomsamdi or Sylvanas or both serve it. And that Elune is also an all-powerful Light/Arcane/Life/Shadow/???? god-esque being that the Night Elves serve. Also she is referred to as an "Upstart Goddess" which, if Mueh'zella is a God whom the Trolls worshipped and then Elune overthrew him and became her own Goddess and took a fraction of the trolls as her worshippers and turned them into Night Elves (as a powerful entity often does to its select worshippers in WoW...) it would make lots of sense.

[Shampro]

except we know she has a secret plan, she even thinks about in the good war and how elune opposes her on it. there is even a letter to nathanos that you can find that talks about the end game that they are building towards

Yup. This is why I don't belive Jericho on this, doesn't matter if he was right about Legion from a day before the announcement. His contact doesn't even work at Blizzard anymore.

And quote in question:

Not to mention the loyalist cutscene, where she literally says that she has plans to put in motion. ''Just being insane!!!!!111one'' is not a plan.

I imagine one of them involves usurping whoever is the deity of Death. Sylvanas doesn't like to ''work'' for anyone, for obvious reasons. Atleast that's one of her consistant traits.