Sadly looking like Tinkers could become a reality.

[Dragtox]

Or maybe she will appear in the next expansion because we will never see a goblin/gnome themed expansion. Blizzard has proven that they trust so little in these races that Mechagon was included as absolute side content with no relevancy to the main plot. That means, Blizzard, who have the true numbers and statistic, thought that a tiny bit of gnome related content had to included as a tiny, unimportant and basically fully optional sidestory to the real storyline and raid, which was naga and elves.

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So you base your class on the biggest brain dead trash content in the game? I mean, that kinda fits the overall themes of the gnomes.

I mean, we are still talking about a class that would be so weak that an army of them lost against troggs. Or a single unit of the SI:7. How could they be presented as a viable option?

did not say next expansion were gona be goblin/themed most likly not does not matter bfa i already death themed tho

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We are talking about people who are among other things really are into grandpas with the bodys of toddlers. You are the sane person in the insane asylum.

so you most hate Peter Dinklage becus of his size then thats the argument you are building on now Shiza

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forcing people to play gnomes, will only increase the numbers of people who play gnomes. It won't make them LIKE gnomes. I'm not fond of gnomes or goblins. If tinkers get locked to them, I will play goblin... not becasue I want to, but because I have to.

Using metric to gauge interests works when you have no incentive and free choice when it comes to playing gnomes or not... if they become tinker locked any metric that shows a raise in popularity will most likely be tied to tinker, rather than the race.

same argument can be put on night elves many use them only becus shadowmeld makes them go out of combat and is nice in pvp becus 1 racial ability does not meen they all love elves

[Kumorii]

same argument can be put on night elves many use them only becus shadowmeld makes them go out of combat and is nice in pvp becus 1 racial ability does not meen they all love elves

Definitely.

[Dragtox]

You're being disrespectful of Vern Troyer here and it's totally uncalled for, Just because people hate gnomes doesn't mean they hate small people in real life if anything your projecting by using this argument constantly.

Now please STOP being disrespectful of the dead.

fine if i use Peter Dinklage wuld it help

[Dragtox]

No not really because you're using strawman tactics to try and call people out, using real life examples against a game is just purely wrong and not very well thought out.

you do know the arguments are so simlair to it that you can put in here every time you focus on the body size the argument is not really any diffrent from the thing in real life
and yes love both those actor but i wuld call out the thing of useing gnome and goblin size as a argument

and teriz is fine with other tinker race he said aswell aslong as its based around their on tech thing and i agree
dont want a lightforged draenei that use the same robot suit model as goblin that wuld be wierd to lore

[GenericDragon]

you do know the arguments are so simlair to it that you can put in here every time you focus on the body size the argument is not really any diffrent from the thing in real life
and yes love both those actor but i wuld call out the thing of useing gnome and goblin size as a argument

Good lord. Some people just don't like small races. And calling them out with real life examples of small people saying shit like "well you must hate them too" is just rude. I get what Shiza is saying with their dislike of gnomes. I absolutely will not play a gnome in warcraft because I just do not like how they're modeled. No, I don't dislike them because they're small, but because they're very oddly proportioned. They look way more cartoony than most of the other races because of those proportions.

But I like gnomes in other settings, like D&D and EverQuest, because they actually look well proportioned for their size. I like goblins for the same reason, and most of the other WoW races, even if some of the male models are a bit too muscle-y for me.

[Shiza]

did not say next expansion were gona be goblin/themed most likly not does not matter bfa i already death themed tho

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so you most hate verne troyer becus of his size then thats the argument you are building on now Shiza

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same argument can be put on night elves many use them only becus shadowmeld makes them go out of combat and is nice in pvp becus 1 racial ability does not meen they all love elves

Verne Troyer is a human being, you lackwit. Gnomes are not. Gnomes are inhuman fantasy beings which resemble toddlers with old man heads. Are you a fucking psychopath or just plain stupid, in being unable to differenciate between fucking fantasy creatures which look like toddlers with old grandpa heads which at their most related serve as a mockery of little people and of real human beings who happen to have a small stature?

Like, seriously, lackwits like you are responsible for the fact, that little people for the most time only get roles as gnomes or kobolds or other whimsical fairy creatures and have to play a mockery of themselves, if they want jobs as actors. Because people like you can't differenciate between a human being with the full complexity of human emotions, experiences and ambitions and whimsical stupid fantasy gnomes. Because of ignorant people like you, the character of Tyrion Lannister to this day remains outstanding, revolutionary and unique because he actually just just a little person in a fantasy world and one of the few opportunities for a little person to play a complex, three-dimensional and heroic character. I mean, fuck. Can we stop conflating little people with gnomes? This is disgusting. You are an evil human being.

I mean, this is part of the whole problem around gnomes. Gnomes are not a serious race, they were always conceptualized as a fucking joke, as a whimsical slapstic element of the world. Even the one moment of importance a gnome character ever had in the game was nothing but lame and bullshit slapstic in which the leader of all gnomes and High Tinker barely managed to push a fucking button. And because people like you conflate gnomes with little people, people tend to carricature them as a mockery of human beings instead of just human beings with a small stature. this kind of conflation and stereotyping leads to actors who could have potential to make it to be restricted into bullshit comedy roles and the fact that Tyrion Lannister still remains something many of us have never seen in movie and television, because it was new and exciting that an actor of Peter Dinklage Stature was allowed to play a so complex, nuanced and intricate character and proof his acting talents to the entire world.

[Dragtox]

Good lord. Some people just don't like small races. And calling them out with real life examples of small people saying shit like "well you must hate them too" is just rude. I get what Shiza is saying with their dislike of gnomes. I absolutely will not play a gnome in warcraft because I just do not like how they're modeled. No, I don't dislike them because they're small, but because they're very oddly proportioned. They look way more cartoony than most of the other races because of those proportions.

But I like gnomes in other settings, like D&D and EverQuest, because they actually look well proportioned for their size. I like goblins for the same reason, and most of the other WoW races, even if some of the male models are a bit too muscle-y for me.

its more that the aggresive argument i have seen around on people born with those size so it kinda is more emotional topic thing to see to certain degree i know some of them were happy with gnome as race becus of the size so it hard to see the argument to not be simlair when they are aggresive on the size thing

i do also agree some of the races and got to much muscle to my taste

[protip]

Think about it: what you're basically saying is that if we put Bear Grylls in a high-tech lab, he'd be able to cobble up together machines he had no idea how they work before entering said lab.

Bear Grylls is a good example of someone who has a specific set of knowledge, which as you mentioned is different from intelligence. What I'm suggesting is more along the lines that if Einstein had been interested in law instead of physics, he probably would've been a fairly competent.

Also, you're exaggerating the level of knowledge that our characters start with. A rogue at level one can only use Sinister Strike. A mage can use what? Frostbolt? No one expects a level one mage to lead the Kirin Tor, our characters have to progress to that point. Allied races start at level 20 with a handful of abilities, when tinkers are released, the level and number of abilities that allied races start at will likely be even lower due to the incoming level squish. Vulpera don't have to start out with knowledge to rival Gazlowe or Mekkatorque from day one, they just need a bit of help getting started.

It has nothing to do with "old" or "new" animation rigging. Because what consumes time developing is the effect animations: how a mage's fireball looks, the impact of a warrior's leap on the ground, how the warlock's summoning portal looks, how the paladin's avenging wrath looks, etc.

Character animations are small potatoes. The overwhelming majority of them already exist.

I wasn't talking about spell effects. I said specifically that races with similar proportions would require less polish when copying over animations. How much of a difference that makes is unclear, but character animations are widely considered to be difficult and time consuming. How big or small those potatoes are depends on how good the new rigging system works, and we simply don't know that.

He didn't. He simply pointed out a perceived tendency. It's a counter to someone saying "we got enough edgy classes, we need light-hearted classes".

It's kinda pathetic when nerds think they are big brain goblins in rl. Sample sizes doesn't matter here, the players have shown a clear bias which is consistent with the played races of this game. So far, previous experiences and common knowledge of player preferences. Monk was basically entirely what you want Tinker to be. Something new, experimental and bright we didn't had so far in WoW which was tailored towards a more comedic and whimsical race. Guess what, it failed, despite being open for every single race with the exception of Goblins and Worgen, who are not popular to begin with. So what are your arguments, that a class even more out of what people are used to in World of Warcraft and which is fully restricted to the most unpopular races wouldn't totally crash?

People dislike whimsical and comedic elements in World of Warcraft if they are pushed to the forefront and for player choices. We can see this with Gnomes, Goblins and Pandaren being the most unpopular choices in the game while allied races like Nightborn, Zandalari and Void Elves doing insanely well despite their restrictions. Blizzard knows this or why do you think they introduced Mechagon as pure side content unrelated to the story of the expansion, with Nazjatar and Elves at the absolute forefront? Blizzard don't believe in the techno themes of their game themselves, otherwise they could have pushed Mechagon as a full blown raid on the forefront. So far, experiences show that people like the more serious races of the game, elves in particular and more darker themed new classes, as the brighter and heroic themed classes are already filled since classic.

I mean, the thing is, nobody likes your niche. You are just a loud minority, which is why the illusion exists that tinker is such a popular concept, because you spend your day writing fanfiction about Tinker classes, which manipulates peoples perception. If Tinker would become a thing and if it isn't op, then people would play it for the first weak but it would be the least played class on 120. And if it is restricted to Gnomes and Goblins, races that are generally disliked, then it would barely be existent on level 120.

So, my point was that you should probably make a real argument instead of hurling insults, hyperbole, and mockery around like confetti at a parade.

On topic, though, if it's as simple as darker classes being more popular, why are death knights and warlocks two of the four least popular classes at 120? With three "darker classes," or perhaps 4 including shadow priests, why are only demon hunters above average popularity?

I agree that elves are popular, but we're talking about a class here, not a race. Race options can (and in my opinion, should) be far less restrictive than just gnomes and goblins. So, if you like, make a reasonable argument for why tinkers are unlikely or bad for the game, and if you can manage to not be rude about it, I'll be happy to consider your points.

[Pigglix]

I would love to see a Shiza reaction when someone playing a jOkE rAcE whoops his or her ass on pvp or pve.

Please Shiza, record that.

Also, pandaren is the #1 unpopular race. So get your facts straight please.

I also have 1.49m irl and gnomes and goblins are my favorite race. So please, avoid speaking for everyone else or having the nerve to say what is a normal person or not. Because you know? Your opinion isnt a fact.

Good day!

[Shiza]

So, my point was that you should probably make a real argument instead of hurling insults, hyperbole, and mockery around like confetti at a parade.

On topic, though, if it's as simple as darker classes being more popular, why are death knights and warlocks two of the four least popular classes at 120? With three "darker classes," or perhaps 4 including shadow priests, why are only demon hunters above average popularity?

I agree that elves are popular, but we're talking about a class here, not a race. Race options can (and in my opinion, should) be far less restrictive than just gnomes and goblins. So, if you like, make a reasonable argument for why tinkers are unlikely or bad for the game, and if you can manage to not be rude about it, I'll be happy to consider your points.

According to which statistics? Though Death Knights tend to be rather weak right now. Otherwise, my core argument against Tinkers would be likely that the class itself is so centered around goblins and gnomes and the technology is basically a joke. The only aesthetically really pleasing science-based thing I have seen in wow so far were the apothecaries, as they had an interesting design. Otherwise, Tinkers are restricted by the quirks and idiocies of gnomes and goblins. predominantly gnomes, as goblins are a one trick rocket pony. So it would be all centered around shit like mechanical bunnies and chickens.

I mean, the name tinker already indicates...garbage. A basically joke class with no real epic identity to its own. I mean, you notice the difference already if you compare it with the tech-based classes in FF14. Machinist, Gunbreaker. And then Tinker, which one sounds more like the hero you want to be. I don't really trust Blizzard to include really...yeah, really cool gadgets into the class kit. Again, look at the current iteration of the Machinist in Final Fantasy 14. He just looks fucking stunning. He has a cool western gunslinger style while utilizing cool gadgets and summoning a mecha. Like, in terms of mechas, I have to admit, the traditional goblin ones can look neat, but I am unsure if they would be something I would want to run around as permanently.

Generally, Blizz has failed to introduce a cool and interesting technology aspect into the game. They were close with the Iron Horde, but didn't really utilize it.

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I would love to see a Shiza reaction when someone playing a jOkE rAcE whoops his or her ass on pvp or pve.

Please Shiza, record that.

Also, pandaren is the #1 unpopular race. So get your facts straight please.

I also have 1.49m irl and gnomes and goblins are my favorite race. So please, avoid speaking for everyone else or having the nerve to say what is a normal person or not. Because you know? Your opinion isnt a fact.

Good day!

Actually, pandaren are as a race more popular than gnomes or goblins. They are just split up into two factions, which screws the numbers.

And I'm 1 meter in real life and had to watch my family being burned alive by gnome and goblin fans when I was a child, so I have proven that we all can make strawmen.

But to be honest, I don't hate Goblins really. I think Gazlowe is lame as fuck, but I actually enjoyed Gallywix. And while I find their technology is boring and restricted, the whole culture around being a parody of american style capitalism is actually a good joke and something which could be build upon. The Gnomes are failures. They look weird as fuck and can't be taken seriously and they don't really have a joke, they are irritating for the fake of being irritating. When they could have been good as a counterbalance to the Goblins if they would have been concepted as, like maybe a parody of russian styled communism. With which you could build something awesome, just watch the Death of Stalin if you want to know what I mean.

[Ielenia]

Why would it make little sense? We kill Nzoth is one patch, so what's wrong with Sylvanas getting ended after an entire expansion? Like I said, BFA began with Sylvanas, and it will end with Sylvanas. Ending her shenanigans in BFA is the perfect end to her story.

Thankfully that means that we'll begin fresh in the next expansion, and wash the stank of BFA away.

Ending Sylvanas' story in a x.x.5 patch would be the biggest letdown Blizzard could make, to the point it'd make the rest of BfA a masterpiece of great writing by comparison.

Sylvanas' story is way too convoluted and complex to simply be ended in a 'minor patch' like that. She has shady deals upon shady deals and we don't even know her real master yet.

No way it's ending in a x.x.5 patch.

[Pigglix]

To be honest i think Sylvanas story ended on 8.2.5 when she revealed her end game.
That dosent mean we wont be seeing her anymore. But for BfA, i think they're done with her.

I have a gut feeling that we will see a sylvanas book to hype the next xpack, or some RP Audio like blizz did with Kadghar and Gul'dan for the tomb of sargeras.

[Ielenia]

Bear Grylls is a good example of someone who has a specific set of knowledge, which as you mentioned is different from intelligence. What I'm suggesting is more along the lines that if Einstein had been interested in law instead of physics, he probably would've been a fairly competent.

But vulpera is not your "Einstein". They are, at best, your "Bear Grylls".

Also, you're exaggerating the level of knowledge that our characters start with. A rogue at level one can only use Sinister Strike. A mage can use what? Frostbolt? No one expects a level one mage to lead the Kirin Tor, our characters have to progress to that point. Allied races start at level 20 with a handful of abilities, when tinkers are released, the level and number of abilities that allied races start at will likely be even lower due to the incoming level squish. Vulpera don't have to start out with knowledge to rival Gazlowe or Mekkatorque from day one, they just need a bit of help getting started.

My point is that, if your claim (not yours, specifically, I'm talking in general) is that tinkers should be restricted to gnomes and goblins, because of their racial background with technology, as well as mechagnomes, then vulpera are not a good fit because their race does not have a background with with technology, and are the 2nd least technology-oriented in the Horde, and those who want vulpera as tinkers along gnomes/goblins/mechagnomes are just including them because they're a short race. But if the tinker class is open to all the races, then yeah, add vulpera, I don't care.

Again, it's about consistency with the arguments: if the argument is that the tinker class should be restricted to just the "three Gs" (goblin/gnome/mechagnome) because of their technological background, then that argument disqualifies the vulpera.

I wasn't talking about spell effects. I said specifically that races with similar proportions would require less polish when copying over animations. How much of a difference that makes is unclear, but character animations are widely considered to be difficult and time consuming. How big or small those potatoes are depends on how good the new rigging system works, and we simply don't know that.

Not really. The chances that the class will have "unique" animations is kind of small, and the chances of them having MANY unique animations is even smaller. The overwhelming majority of the differences between a goblin and a human class animations (for example) is scale, which is... incredibly simple to adjust. Races already have their animations built-in, the class just uses a set number of them. There's no need to create exclusive animations when there is no need for them.

[protip]

According to which statistics? Though Death Knights tend to be rather weak right now. Otherwise, my core argument against Tinkers would be likely that the class itself is so centered around goblins and gnomes and the technology is basically a joke. The only aesthetically really pleasing science-based thing I have seen in wow so far were the apothecaries, as they had an interesting design. Otherwise, Tinkers are restricted by the quirks and idiocies of gnomes and goblins. predominantly gnomes, as goblins are a one trick rocket pony. So it would be all centered around shit like mechanical bunnies and chickens.

I mean, the name tinker already indicates...garbage. A basically joke class with no real epic identity to its own. I mean, you notice the difference already if you compare it with the tech-based classes in FF14. Machinist, Gunbreaker. And then Tinker, which one sounds more like the hero you want to be. I don't really trust Blizzard to include really...yeah, really cool gadgets into the class kit. Again, look at the current iteration of the Machinist in Final Fantasy 14. He just looks fucking stunning. He has a cool western gunslinger style while utilizing cool gadgets and summoning a mecha. Like, in terms of mechas, I have to admit, the traditional goblin ones can look neat, but I am unsure if they would be something I would want to run around as permanently.

Generally, Blizz has failed to introduce a cool and interesting technology aspect into the game. They were close with the Iron Horde, but didn't really utilize it.

I just checked the source someone else linked for the race distribution. Here is the link.

I guess the visual appeal is subjective, but I do feel like there are enough threads to pull from. That said, I will admit I'm a bit worried that the visuals will be a mix of all different types of engineering and that we'll see weird cross faction abilities. I don't think they'd go overboard with the exploding sheep, but you're probably right that there will be some jokes. Personally, I hope there will be, but there needs to be some abilities with proper impact too.

Point being, I share your concerns about the implementation, and I wouldn't personally want to play something overly gnome themed either, but I don't think that would need to dominate the class as a whole. If it does we can always complain

But vulpera is not your "Einstein". They are, at best, your "Bear Grylls".

I figure if the allied race preview says that they stand out for their cleverness and resourcefulness in a universe like Warcraft's, they're closer to Einstein than Bear Grylls. I'm basing that primarily on the allied race preview because it is Blizzard's description of the race in general, while their in game representation may not consistent. They are also capable of being all caster classes except druids, without any clear sort of training, so I would take that as indicative of intelligence as well.

My point is that, if your claim (not yours, specifically, I'm talking in general) is that tinkers should be restricted to gnomes and goblins, because of their racial background with technology, as well as mechagnomes, then vulpera are not a good fit because their race does not have a background with with technology, and are the 2nd least technology-oriented in the Horde, and those who want vulpera as tinkers along gnomes/goblins/mechagnomes are just including them because they're a short race. But if the tinker class is open to all the races, then yeah, add vulpera, I don't care.

Again, it's about consistency with the arguments: if the argument is that the tinker class should be restricted to just the "three Gs" (goblin/gnome/mechagnome) because of their technological background, then that argument disqualifies the vulpera.

So, I disagree because of the earlier statement, but I follow the logic for sure. I'd also say that such a small pool of races would hurt tinker's popularity, and I have to trust Blizzard not to make that mistake.

Not really. The chances that the class will have "unique" animations is kind of small, and the chances of them having MANY unique animations is even smaller. The overwhelming majority of the differences between a goblin and a human class animations (for example) is scale, which is... incredibly simple to adjust. Races already have their animations built-in, the class just uses a set number of them. There's no need to create exclusive animations when there is no need for them.

Many classes are getting unique spell animations lately. Not between races, I mean, but animations specific to a given class. Take paladins with the new Holy Light and Templar's Verdict, for example. The other visual updates to spells have featured similar changes to casting animations, etc. In any case, this was a minor point from the beginning, so if you don't agree, I don't mind at this point. I'd be interested to have more information on the subject, but I don't think I'm that interested in splitting hairs about it. The point above is the important one, on that we agree.

[Shiza]

I just checked the source someone else linked for the race distribution. Here is the link.

I guess the visual appeal is subjective, but I do feel like there are enough threads to pull from. That said, I will admit I'm a bit worried that the visuals will be a mix of all different types of engineering and that we'll see weird cross faction abilities. I don't think they'd go overboard with the exploding sheep, but you're probably right that there will be some jokes. Personally, I hope there will be, but there needs to be some abilities with proper impact too.

Point being, I share your concerns about the implementation, and I wouldn't personally want to play something overly gnome themed either, but I don't think that would need to dominate the class as a whole. If it does we can always complain

I mean, having different skins for different factions would be kind of a new thing, so there is already the problematic question of which kind of mecha-suit Tinker would be using. And I wouldn't really be opposed to some whimsical elements which are just gimmicks and are not gameplay related. Though the theme would be a problem. I mean, we can't expect that every race is represented with them, the best we have ever gotten with faction representation in classes was with Demon Hunters, wo had different colored skins for their starting armor and their metamorphosis. So it would probably be a weird mix of goblin and gnome stuff, which I would personally dislike as the only technological aspect of the game I really liked was the Blackrock Clans Iron Horde technology. And tbh if I would play a tinker, than probably only with a blackrock orc. Or as an Undead, if they get a plague and alchemy based dps spec. I mean, I would also like if they would borrow from FF14. I think the machinist, especially the shadowbringers version, is a good example of how to make a cool technology based class.

[Kumorii]

To be honest i think Sylvanas story ended on 8.2.5 when she revealed her end game.

That she wants dead people to feed a "hungering darkness"? Not sure if that's a way to end a story... it's like the middle part where you think "now things are getting real".
It's far from ended.

[Ielenia]

So, I disagree because of the earlier statement, but I follow the logic for sure. I'd also say that such a small pool of races would hurt tinker's popularity, and I have to trust Blizzard not to make that mistake.

Basically. Yes, we're in agreement here.

Many classes are getting unique spell animations lately. Not between races, I mean, but animations specific to a given class. Take paladins with the new Holy Light and Templar's Verdict, for example. The other visual updates to spells have featured similar changes to casting animations, etc. In any case, this was a minor point from the beginning, so if you don't agree, I don't mind at this point. I'd be interested to have more information on the subject, but I don't think I'm that interested in splitting hairs about it. The point above is the important one, on that we agree.

Which is my point. The amount of unique animations within a class are small, and not exactly an issue to adapt to other races. Dwarves cast "holy light" and "templar's verdict" with the same animation as the humans and draenei, don't they? The short races' skeleton rig for the arms, for example, have the same number of 'joints' as the bigger races: one shoulder joint, one elbow joint, one wrist joint. It's not hard to do minor tweaks to an animation script to fit other races.

They did so for the monk, who is 90% unique animations (from combat stance to basic attacks to special abilities) that were new and exclusive to them for almost all the races available at the time, so why would the tinker be different?

[Polybius]

It's kinda pathetic when nerds think they are big brain goblins in rl. Sample sizes doesn't matter here, the players have shown a clear bias which is consistent with the played races of this game. So far, previous experiences and common knowledge of player preferences. Monk was basically entirely what you want Tinker to be. Something new, experimental and bright we didn't had so far in WoW which was tailored towards a more comedic and whimsical race. Guess what, it failed, despite being open for every single race with the exception of Goblins and Worgen, who are not popular to begin with. So what are your arguments, that a class even more out of what people are used to in World of Warcraft and which is fully restricted to the most unpopular races wouldn't totally crash?

People dislike whimsical and comedic elements in World of Warcraft if they are pushed to the forefront and for player choices. We can see this with Gnomes, Goblins and Pandaren being the most unpopular choices in the game while allied races like Nightborn, Zandalari and Void Elves doing insanely well despite their restrictions. Blizzard knows this or why do you think they introduced Mechagon as pure side content unrelated to the story of the expansion, with Nazjatar and Elves at the absolute forefront? Blizzard don't believe in the techno themes of their game themselves, otherwise they could have pushed Mechagon as a full blown raid on the forefront. So far, experiences show that people like the more serious races of the game, elves in particular and more darker themed new classes, as the brighter and heroic themed classes are already filled since classic.

I mean, the thing is, nobody likes your niche. You are just a loud minority, which is why the illusion exists that tinker is such a popular concept, because you spend your day writing fanfiction about Tinker classes, which manipulates peoples perception. If Tinker would become a thing and if it isn't op, then people would play it for the first weak but it would be the least played class on 120. And if it is restricted to Gnomes and Goblins, races that are generally disliked, then it would barely be existent on level 120.

Eat a Snickers, seriously. This is why people are tired of edgelords.

[DotEleven]

Eat a Snickers, seriously. This is why people are tired of edgelords.

I really like how he keeps making these claims of "Nobody likes them, nobody will play them" while all the polls show otherwise and is only evidence is "I don't like it and won't accept those polls. My feelings are more logical than your proof"

[Shiza]

Eat a Snickers, seriously. This is why people are tired of edgelords.

Being into Toddlers with Grandpa heads stills make you the minority and a rather weird. Being into elves and darker themed stuff is normal. So...yeah, whats on being an edgelord? It is a fully common thing people enjoy in fantasy and sci-fi settings. Hell, Heath Ledger became post-mortem a critically acclaimed actor on this basis.

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I really like how he keeps making these claims of "Nobody likes them, nobody will play them" while all the polls show otherwise and is only evidence is "I don't like it and won't accept those polls. My feelings are more logical than your proof"

Nobody likes them enough for an expansion. And without a proper themed expansion, no Tinker