In the wake of the El Paso shooting, I have some serious questions

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Pretty sad to see 8chan's service providers terminating their service. Hopefully 8chan finds a new service provider.

[Mormolyce]

based on this. https://thenextweb.com/contributors/...d-hate-speech/

You just linked another opinion piece lol.

How does that prove the study was partisan?

Again, I have a study. You have some opinions.

[announced]

You just linked another opinion piece lol.

How does that prove the study was partisan?

Again, I have a study. You have some opinions.

Your study is a joke. If you bothered to read the article you would have learned that your study

Indeed, a 2017 study titled, “You Can’t Stay Here: The Efficacy of Reddit’s 2015 Ban Examined Through Hate Speech,” showed that banning hate speech on the website simply pushed people onto other sites.

Which proves my point. If you ban people somewhere, they will just go somewhere else.

The article I linked is based on 9 separate studies, facts and history dating back to the 1920s.

As Ben Franklin once said "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech". The internet doesn't have an official free speech rule, but it should.

[Slant]

They are free to do so on their platform, I agree. My point was it's better to let them discuss their opinions openly(as long as they aren't inciting violence), and maybe someone can help change their mind and break the echo chamber that they live in. When you use use authoritarian tools like censorship you can end up proving the radicals point that they are being silenced. This helps feed into the belief that they are being targeted and it ends up creating more potential radicals.

I've heard this narrative before. Usually it comes from Americans. And it usually ignores the fact that America is by now the most radicalised of the western democracies. You openly display racism and even your President engages in very, very questionable administrative actions against foreigners.

Your strategy? It's not working. Radicals won't be convinced by the moderate center to leave their ways. And they have created a shell outside their bubble that normal people cannot penetratea, it's the age-old propaganda shell of us vs. them which by now applies to large populations within the US as well.

The best argument I've heard so far is that law enforcement authorities would have a harder time listening in to these conversations if they went underground. But your argument about free speech, it's failing in the US. You're less free than any European democracy. Your journalism is less free. And y'all live in constant fear of danger from all sides, be it crime, mass shootings, foreigners, whatever the next thing is the President is tweeting about and China for some, to me, yet unknown reason.

[Xarkan]

Your study is a joke. If you bothered to read the article you would have learned that your study Which proves my point. If you ban people somewhere, they will just go somewhere else.

The article I linked is based on 9 separate studies, facts and history dating back to the 1920s.

As Ben Franklin once said "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech". The internet doesn't have an official free speech rule, but it should.

Free speech on the internet in general would be a horrible idea

If you host a forum then suddenly anyone and everyone would be allowed to post their nazi or communist propaganda there and you would have no say regardless of the intended topic, no right to censor?

[Mormolyce]

Your study is a joke. If you bothered to read the article you would have learned that your study Which proves my point. If you ban people somewhere, they will just go somewhere else.

The article I linked is based on 9 separate studies, facts and history dating back to the 1920s.

LOL, your article refers to:

1) The Streisand Effect
2) A study showing that Prohibition failed
3) A Pew poll on which country is the most tolerant
4) An article about a guy befriending the KKK
5) An advert from the ACLU???
6) A study that shows trolls are sadists
7) A UNESCO study on the relationship between violent extremism and social media, which says in the very text the article links to:

"The study concludes that research on the subject is still at a budding stage, and it urges caution about the results and interpretations. The literature reviewed in the study provides no definitive evidence on a direct link between the specificities of social media and violent radicalization outcomes on youth. Likewise, there is no definitive evidence about the impact of counter-measures."

8) A Brookings study on ISIS propaganda - but it doesn't link to the study, in fact it links to another op-ed that references the study. The study itself makes no such conclusions:

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content...ger_morgan.pdf

The study is in fact a nuanced analysis of the pros and cons of various actions against ISIS recruitment online that's meant to inform people rather than prescribe a solution. Ironically it's being used here as disinformation. For what it's worth, the case study they looked at did result in reduced ISIS activity.

9) A 2011 University of Greenwich study about the Arab Spring Uprising and UK riots, which used a "social simulation" to propose that less censorship in those type of scenarios led to less violence. So, not real data.


Perhaps you should read your article lol.

Again, the study I linked to specifically studied the closure of hate subs on reddit, directly relevant to the question of this thread. You can't just call it biased because it doesn't support your beliefs. Where is your proof that it is biased? Provide it or admit you made that up.

[announced]

Snip

This is where factual arguments end, and you just resort to calling anyone who disagrees with you a racist.
It's right out of the left's playbook, when in doubt just claim they are or they support racists.

Maybe not all of the radicals will be convinced, but even if we could only convince a few them at a time it does stem the flow of hate. I've still yet to see anyone provide a source saying America is the most radicalized of the western democracies. You should also read this report https://www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START...7_July2018.pdf the number of terrorist attacks appear to be decreasing. We should be concerned with white supremacy in the US, but the majority of people posting online aren't the ones you'll see in the news shooting up places.

Journalism is still free, and it's never been under attack. Trump saying mean words to journalists, and calling them out when they post fake news doesn't count. China actually is a problem btw, and something we need to take seriously.

snip

I'm not surprised you got banned, but anyway. You remind me of a flat earther that posts one study claiming how the earth is flat and how your evidence from one study is the only proof you'll ever need. When you decide to come back to reality you should be able to piece everything together. Each study listed shows the cause and effects of censorship, from censoring pictures, alcohol, to various other things. If you think real hard, maybe you can learn something from each of those studies and eventually you'll reach a different conclusion.

Free speech on the internet in general would be a horrible idea

If you host a forum then suddenly anyone and everyone would be allowed to post their nazi or communist propaganda there and you would have no say regardless of the intended topic, no right to censor?

You would have the same say as everyone else, just no ability to ban people.

Think of it like walking down a busy street, and after a while you encounter someone entertaining a crowd by telling people about how he believes in aliens. Moving further down the street you encounter some religious people, and they are also entertaining a crowd. As you continue further down this street you encounter all sorts of people, some are anti vaxxers, some are anti government conspiracy theorists, and yes some might even believe in white supremacy. Here's the catch, the internet is a big place and this street is over 1 million miles long. The amount of hate groups you would find pales in comparison to everyone on this street, it's not even close.

Trolls like to post hateful messages for attention, and they thrive on being banned. They just make alt accounts and the whole cycle starts over again. If you don't feed them, they will simply get bored and move on.

[Orbitus]

Journalism is still free, and it's never been under attack. Trump saying mean words to journalists, and calling them out when they post fake news doesn't count. China actually is a problem btw, and something we need to take seriously.

See this shit right here? It is bullshit. Trump is actually trying to shut them down, simply because they are writing mean words about him, by DIRECTLY QUOTING TRUMP. They could have an article that is just the video of Trump lying to everyone, and moronic Trump supporters will STILL scream fake news.

[announced]

See this shit right here? It is bullshit. Trump is actually trying to shut them down, simply because they are writing mean words about him, by DIRECTLY QUOTING TRUMP. They could have an article that is just the video of Trump lying to everyone, and moronic Trump supporters will STILL scream fake news.

Trump says a lot of crap. You should look at his actions, instead of his words. Obama prosecuted and spied on multiple reporters, Trump temporarily banned one for being a dick.

sources
https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion...304-story.html
https://www.apnews.com/ffc60235c26c4...straight-story
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...zing-newsrooms

[Orbitus]

Trump says a lot of crap. You should look at his actions, instead of his words. Obama prosecuted and spied on multiple reporters, Trump temporarily banned one for being a dick.

sources
https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion...304-story.html
https://www.apnews.com/ffc60235c26c4...straight-story
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...zing-newsrooms

Except, you know, Trump trying to sue CNN for some bullshit law that has no bearing on what is actually going on, because of some "false advertising", which isn't what is happening. Meanwhile Fox News is fucking lying and running conspiracy theories. But good job trying to bring Obama up, when no one fucking mentioned him. That and Trump inciting violence, even having his security guards slamming reporters to the ground. Oh, and don't forget the Cult45 member that made bombs that he sent to CNN and Democratic leaders, thanks to the urging of Trump to do violence to these people. Calling them fake news and all that bullshit. Excuse me while I ignore you trying the whataboutism tactic.

[Slant]

This is where factual arguments end, and you just resort to calling anyone who disagrees with you a racist.
It's right out of the left's playbook, when in doubt just claim they are or they support racists.

Maybe not all of the radicals will be convinced, but even if we could only convince a few them at a time it does stem the flow of hate. I've still yet to see anyone provide a source saying America is the most radicalized of the western democracies. You should also read this report https://www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START...7_July2018.pdf the number of terrorist attacks appear to be decreasing. We should be concerned with white supremacy in the US, but the majority of people posting online aren't the ones you'll see in the news shooting up places.

Journalism is still free, and it's never been under attack. Trump saying mean words to journalists, and calling them out when they post fake news doesn't count. China actually is a problem btw, and something we need to take seriously.

The US is 48th on the World Press Freedom index. Your neighbours are Romania and Senegal, if you are interested. Not sure what you're on about with the rest, but since you seem to get overly defensive about me calling everyone a racist, I'll assume you really, really have no clue what I'm on about. See ya.

[Thestrawman]

Pretty sad to see 8chan's service providers terminating their service. Hopefully 8chan finds a new service provider.

Miss having access to that kiddy porn huh?

[YUPPIE]

After some extensive reading into this, it actually is amazing 4chan is still allowed to exist. In particular, why was its original creator Christopher Poole not prosecuted as a terrorist? The site is linked to all kinds of criminal shit despite the SFW boards not dissimilar to its now-defunct brother. At the least how has Google not removed it from its search index? You can just freely type in its name or any of its boards to get results unlike 8Chan on its last days.

[Mormolyce]

I'm not surprised you got banned, but anyway. You remind me of a flat earther that posts one study claiming how the earth is flat and how your evidence from one study is the only proof you'll ever need. When you decide to come back to reality you should be able to piece everything together. Each study listed shows the cause and effects of censorship, from censoring pictures, alcohol, to various other things. If you think real hard, maybe you can learn something from each of those studies and eventually you'll reach a different conclusion.

Responds to my study with an op-ed which he hasn't read, calls me a flat earther.

LOL.

- - - Updated - - -

Pretty sad to see 8chan's service providers terminating their service. Hopefully 8chan finds a new service provider.

And nothing of value was lost.