[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Demolitia]

More to the point

Should the EU grant an extension?

I vote no on that question, noone wins if that is done, we will end in nodeal in the end anyhow, keeping this going on and on and on will leave everyone weaker when the enevitable happens, for the good of the EU, of the UK, of the world we should let the breakup happen now

Granted the one assumption i base it on is that we end in nodeal in the end but it seems fair

Will the Withdrawal agreement be up for a vote today?
If it passes there seems to be quite a list of stuff to sort out in just 9 days.

[Teleros]

Will the Withdrawal agreement be up for a vote today?

The Telegraph reckons it won't be - Bercow will probably rule against BoJo - which means the bill will go through on Tuesday. That could be cancelled though if some amendments are added to it - eg ones for a second referendum or a customs union - which means it's down to the EU granting an extension or not.

Fun times .

[Monster Hunter]

Nice to see the "impartial" BBC here pushing the "Oh the big bad EU will kick us out anyway" line.

To be fair, that is now a big cause for concern. The president of the eu hasn't helped that perception by in as many words saying take this deal or fuck off. Not to mention Mr macron seems to be deeply entrenched in no further delay.

Which I totaly sympathise with, we took the last extension to try to get through mays deal or find a new deal and instead we spent it bickering and ousting the pm to put a new one in.....

I mean let's be Frank, we both love in the UK, we both know that with the current make up of parliament no one has enough of a majority to pass any deal and no party is willing to make the compromises and trust each other to change the current status quo without a GE.

And if we see that then the eu see that, they also likely look at the polls to and see that for all the bluster it would be suicide for the opposition to call a GE right now, so as much as GE would break the dead lock one this year is unlikely now. Because it would just hand bojo a majority again.

Looking at the UK from the EUs perspective, and knowing the EU has alot less to lose and in some ways a fair amount to gain from a nodeal when it comes to attracting buissness away from London to the EU. I can see why alot of them are getting a bit impatient with us here.

[Dizzeeyooo]

The president of the eu hasn't helped that perception

To be fair, it's not his job to help that perception - it's his job to support the deal that his team has worked on, until the UK gives a clear position on accepting or rejecting that deal.

A "crucial misunderstanding among many voters, who assume that the 'deal' over which MPs are bickering covers not only the terms by which we leave the EU, but also the details of our trading relationship after we've left". When these focus groups are told that Brexit triggers a longer phase of talks and trade negotiations, the response is often "horrified silence".

#justgetitdonethough

[Monster Hunter]

And to know that people who voted for this did based on a message on a bus to save money by not paying the EU. The amount of money being wasted in this farce is unbelievable not just for the UK but for the EU also.

Once the brexit comes through and the effect actually starts where people will lose jobs on both sides, the UK is going to have a big big issue ever rejoining the EU because people will remember this.

There was more to it than just the bus. There was the years of blaming the EU for problems made by Westminster, the anti globalist sentiment that's risen up since the financial crash and perpetuated by endless austerity, decades and decades of stagnation and neglect in old mining towns up and down the country, a lack of jobs often blamed on immigration, immigration blamed on the EU, the near constant bad behaviour of gypsies in towns up and down the UK, the housing market growing 10x faster than the averedge wage being blamed on immigration and foreign buyers.........

Theres a laundry list of things people are very pissed off with that politicians and the media have been more than happy to pin on and link to the EU. The EU has been a convenient scape goat as its something they saw as stable and immune to outrage.

Bojo did say something very poignant on Saturday that he is right about, the EU conversation in the UK has never been healthy, we have always been cold memebers of the EU, always scuppering the plans for ever closer Union, and even now all we talk about is the damdge to the UK, we don't talk about the grand destiny of the EU, what the project is trying to build. Even the damned referendum was a choice between leaving or more opt outs with Camerons "new deal".....

But he was wrong that its because we're naturally that way inclined, we are that way because ever since we have joined the EU has been painted at different times by both our main left and right wing party's as either a bad corrupt orgonosation or a nessesary evil to do buissness. How can we have support for something our leaders have never shown there full support for?

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To be fair, it's not his job to help that perception - it's his job to support the deal that his team has worked on, until the UK gives a clear position on accepting or rejecting that deal.


#justgetitdonethough

I'd rather we didn't just get it done.
I'd rather we had politicians that would stand up to promote the EU properly not the sad Sack sorry excuse for human beings we have in the Labour Party atm. People who would extol the virtues of the EU project, of ever closer Union and how it will enfranchise all of Europe. No more of this "were giving up our sovereignty" bullshit and more "we are gaining sovereignty over a new world super power based on European values"

[Pann]

Will the Withdrawal agreement be up for a vote today?
If it passes there seems to be quite a list of stuff to sort out in just 9 days.

Bercow will announce whether a vote will be allowed later today, technically as the government did not pull the vote on Saturday it has already been debated once this parliamentary session and as set out in Erskine May it should not be allowed to brought before the House again in this session.

[Acidbaron]

More to the point

Should the EU grant an extension?

I vote no on that question, noone wins if that is done, we will end in nodeal in the end anyhow, keeping this going on and on and on will leave everyone weaker when the enevitable happens, for the good of the EU, of the UK, of the world we should let the breakup happen now

Granted the one assumption i base it on is that we end in nodeal in the end but it seems fair

I am in favour of an extension so long it continues to serve the EU in preparing for the seemingly inevitable crash out.
That way the damage on our end is minimized.

[TwistedSkull]

Dribbles is awfully silent these past two days...

[Monster Hunter]

The current left-wing leadership of the Labour party is not responsible for any of this. The Tories called the referendum, and split their party for 3 years doing nothing.

If any one other than the Tories it is neo-liberal idiots in the EU, the liberal democrats and the corporate wing of the Labour party, that abandoned working class communities to the extent that they would vote for something as nihilistic and suicidal as Brexit.

Essentially it is all the fault of people like you and your morally bankrupt self-serving ideology of nothing but promoting corporate greed. Somehow, you are still blaming anything but yourselves. The truth is, you people held all the political power and you fucked up. Now we get constant righteous indignation about the mess you people created.

So the decades of the current faction Incharge of Labour during the 60s,70s and 80, campaigning against the EU has no baring?

Mr corbyn fucking off in holiday during the referendum campaign has no baring?

All his and mcdonell's speeches against the EU being on record has no baring?

Please those fuckers are as guilty as the tory's for this mess.

I'm a working class guy from a working class northern town, if any one fucking abandond us it Was the fucking Labour party. It was fucking kinnock and his cronies, Blair and his war criminals and corbyn and his high school drop outs. They don't give a fuck, there the ones that fail us every fucking time we elect them and there the ones who started the anti EU narrative right at the start. Fuck them and fuck you for supporting them.

[Jessicka]

Furthermore, BoJo doesn't want one

This is in fact, entirely irrelevant. It's a Parliamentary democracy, where Parliament is sovereign, not a dictatorship that does as Boris pleases.

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The Telegraph reckons it won't be - Bercow will probably rule against BoJo - which means the bill will go through on Tuesday. That could be cancelled though if some amendments are added to it - eg ones for a second referendum or a customs union - which means it's down to the EU granting an extension or not.

Fun times .

It wouldn't be orderly, as the bill has already been amended, to try to pass it again without amendment. It also wouldn't be orderly to not allow amendments to be added to a bill.

I think he might allow a non-binding indicative vote, but I don't think he would want to set such a precedent of allowing it as Boris requests.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Bojo did say something very poignant on Saturday that he is right about, the EU conversation in the UK has never been healthy

Johnson's entire "career" as a journalist was built on creating and fermenting the UK's overall negative attitude to the EU, so him quoting it now is pathetic.

[JohnBrown1917]

So the decades of the current faction Incharge of Labour during the 60s,70s and 80, campaigning against the EU has no baring?

Mr corbyn fucking off in holiday during the referendum campaign has no baring?

All his and mcdonell's speeches against the EU being on record has no baring?

Please those fuckers are as guilty as the tory's for this mess.

Yeah, how dare they oppose the EU's neo-liberal policies, its almost like they don't support right-wing policies!

I'm a working class guy from a working class northern town, if any one fucking abandond us it Was the fucking Labour party. It was fucking kinnock and his cronies, Blair and his war criminals and corbyn and his high school drop outs. They don't give a fuck, there the ones that fail us every fucking time we elect them and there the ones who started the anti EU narrative right at the start. Fuck them and fuck you for supporting them.

Corbyn has never been elected.

[Monster Hunter]

Johnson's entire "career" as a journalist was built on creating and fermenting the UK's overall negative attitude to the EU, so him quoting it now is pathetic.

Yea it was strange to see him point out the very proplem he perpetuated. Is still true though, we hae been dicks to the EU since we joined.

We needed and still need more real pro EU voices in parliament.

Can start by throwing out that cold War relic we have sat in the opposition.

[JohnBrown1917]

Yea it was strange to see him point out the very proplem he perpetuated. Is still true though, we hae been dicks to the EU since we joined.

We needed and still need more real pro EU voices in parliament.

Can start by throwing out that cold War relic we have sat in the opposition.

Don't worry, if you wish hard enough, your blairite buddies will get back in power.

[Monster Hunter]

Corbyn has never been elected.

And he never fucking will be as long as I live.

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Don't worry, if you wish hard enough, your blairite buddies will get back in power.

I hate Blair, he's a war criminal, who sucks yanky dick.

Try harder pinko.

Labour were traitors to the working class from the start, first thing they did with power was hand it back to the Conservatives, my great grandparents used to piss on macdoneled's picture they put at the bottom of the out door toilets.

The only good thing from labour was Attlee, he was a saint. The rest have been utter scum.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Yea it was strange to see him point out the very proplem he perpetuated.

I mean, it's not strange at all when you consider who Johnson is - it's strange that you think it's strange.

I hate Blair, he's war criminal, who sucks yanky dick.

Still an infinitely better PM than Johnson could ever be.

[JohnBrown1917]

And he never fucking will be as long as I live.

Then you can't talk shit about him fucking anything over lol.


Oh no wait, being critical of the EU makes him some far left commie in your eyes. You right-wing libs got the strangest views
of the centre-left

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I hate Blair, he's war criminal, who sucks yanky dick.

Try harder pinko.

So a soc dem is too far left for you, but you don't like blair either.
Seems you like to buy into liberal/conservative propaganda while at the same time blaming them, which one is it?

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Labour were traitors to the working class from the start, first thing they did with power was hand it back to the Conservatives, my great grandparents used to piss on macdoneled's picture they put at the bottom of the out door toilets.

The only good thing from labour was Attlee, he was a saint. The rest have been utter scum.

So they are not far left enough for you now? Which is it?

[Monster Hunter]

I mean, it's not strange at all when you consider who Johnson is - it's strange that you think it's strange.


Still an infinitely better PM than Johnson could ever be.

My arse hole would make a better pm than both of them. Don't make it a good thing.

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Yes, MT will ride forth on his noble steed wielding his magic sword to defend her majesty!

Wouldn't be the first MP removed from office.
Constituants can trigger by-elections.

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Then you can't talk shit about him fucking anything over lol.


Oh no wait, being critical of the EU makes him some far left commie in your eyes. You right-wing libs got the strangest views
of the centre-left

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So a soc dem is too far left for you, but you don't like blair either.
Seems you like to buy into liberal/conservative propaganda while at the same time blaming them, which one is it?

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So they are not far left enough for you now? Which is it?

The political spectrum isn't binary you do know that right. Trust a pinko to not understand basic democracy though.

If this is to hard for you I suggest you retreat to you mis interpretations of Marx and hating on the Jews or what every you fill your free time with.

[Jessicka]

Then you can't talk shit about him fucking anything over lol.


Oh no wait, being critical of the EU makes him some far left commie in your eyes. You right-wing libs got the strangest views
of the centre-left

In this Overton Window where National Socialists are considered an acceptable representation of right wing policies, the Lib Dems are left of centre. So sure, go further left to Social Democratic principals, which are pretty normal on the continent, and that is screamed down as basically Stalinist.

Country's views are fucking screwed, thanks to such a strong far-right media.

[Monster Hunter]

What are you writing is just insane.

Kinnock and Blair were pro-europeans, whatever else might have been wrong with them. I don't get how you blame Kinnock for destroying manufacturing industry in working-class areas, that was unambigously a tory policy opposed by the Labour party. That just doesn't make any sense at all, it is like saying Nigel Farage is responsible for the European Union, it is just stupid.

Corbyn's actual voting record on the EU is this,

67 votes for, 26 votes against, 49 absences, between 2006–2019

consistent with that of his stated attitude of being a sceptical pro-european. There isn't any evidence at all to suggest he is a Brexiteer or anti-european, he only votes against the EU when he perceives worker interests are being damaged.

Yea they were pro Europe, but kinnock was such a failure he effectively prompt up thatcher as she destroyed the north of England.

And Blair threw is into two pointless wars to please his bff in America as well as gave Hong knong over to a human rights violator, blew our budget on failed programs, and wrote most of the laws that hae been used to remove people's freedoms without trial...

Corbyn sin is being so fucking useless he manages to lose elections against the most un popular goverment in modern history..

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What are you writing is just insane.

Kinnock and Blair were pro-europeans, whatever else might have been wrong with them. I don't get how you blame Kinnock for destroying manufacturing industry in working-class areas, that was unambigously a tory policy opposed by the Labour party. That just doesn't make any sense at all, it is like saying Nigel Farage is responsible for the European Union, it is just stupid.

Corbyn's actual voting record on the EU is this,

67 votes for, 26 votes against, 49 absences, between 2006–2019

consistent with that of his stated attitude of being a sceptical pro-european. There isn't any evidence at all to suggest he is a Brexiteer or anti-european, he only votes against the EU when he perceives worker interests are being damaged.

He abstained those votes so he didn't break the whip and still not provide support. He's a cunt who plays the system.