Why do people say the Alliance 'lost' or were 'passive' in the Fourth War?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The Alliance took the Arathi Highlands and nearly permanently uprooted the horde from the Eastern Kingdoms aside from Andorhal and Quel'thalas, the only two Horde bastions not mentioned in the war campaign or war table.

I really wish Gilneas wasn't in limbo, at BlizzCon 2017 Blizzard said a big reason the Horde wanted Stromgarde was a good striking point to hit Gilneas... Yet Genn still acts like an exile. It's confusing! And they could have resolved/answered the question in the worgen heritage armor questline but noooope, it has to be a big nothing storyline that feels like a filler episode.

They rarely show Alliance stuff in the game ... is part of the problem. Supposedly Gilneas was retaken, but it was really only in a book. In no real way is Gilneas back in the hand of the Alliance... same with Arathi.

[VladlTutushkin]

@VladlTutushkin

Speaking of undead night elves, Delaryn and company voluntarily decide to kill their race because of their rejection despite everyone pleading with them to come back, this happening under the moon of their goddess and an avatar of her wrath. That's not enough to overcome their trauma and so they stick with Sylvanas. But the nanosecond a they hear that an undead human using the holy light they've never met offers them help, they immediately reverse course and seek redemption.

That was actually so awful my mind spaced out and forgot that. So yeah, there wasnt any “greater plan” or “revelation” or any hidden reason behind undead nelfs - they apparently just were mad and angery and whatnot and killed their own people begging them to return. And then a Light (not even Elune) priestess comes to talk to them and they are super fine with listening. Also i love how they cram those nelfs with forsaken as “100% forsaken” when they literally an opposite - raised voluntarily (not against their will), serving their killers willingly (not under mind control) and accepted by their people but chose to stay emo (unlike forsaken).

[Super Dickmann]

That was actually so awful my mind spaced out and forgot that. So yeah, there wasnt any “greater plan” or “revelation” or any hidden reason behind undead nelfs - they apparently just were mad and angery and whatnot and killed their own people begging them to return. And then a Light (not even Elune) priestess comes to talk to them and they are super fine with listening. Also i love how they cram those nelfs with forsaken as “100% forsaken” when they literally an opposite - raised voluntarily (not against their will), serving their killers willingly (not under mind control) and accepted by their people but chose to stay emo (unlike forsaken).

Blizzard double dip in fucking up night elf and forsaken fans simultaneously.

I genuinely don't understand the purpose of these characters. Why did Sylvanas even bother raising them and why was such a big deal made of their hopelessness or whatever if she was going to ditch them anyway? Did Blizzard just abort the plotline because of the backlash but then decide that they could still use this to kick the night elves while they're down so they made their change of heart be about Calia? If they weren't mind-controlled then why would they join the Horde and why would the Alliance take them back? If that was their free will and they were such messes, why didn't they stay with Sylvanas as raid fodder henchmen?

[VladlTutushkin]

Blizzard double dip in fucking up night elf and forsaken fans simultaneously.

I genuinely don't understand the purpose of these characters. Why did Sylvanas even bother raising them and why was such a big deal made of their hopelessness or whatever if she was going to ditch them anyway? Did Blizzard just abort the plotline because of the backlash but then decide that they could still use this to kick the night elves while they're down so they made their change of heart be about Calia? If they weren't mind-controlled then why would they join the Horde and why would the Alliance take them back? If that was their free will and they were such messes, why didn't they stay with Sylvanas as raid fodder henchmen?

All that basically. If they so mad then they should have stayed with Sylvanas. If they were forced or corrupted somehow they should have returned and repented to their people. If they just confused and whatnot they should have left and stay neutral. No bloody reason... they just ruined only good moment for the night elfs and good new character (Delaryn) for shit nothing. This is too depressing for me and my life sucks as it is. Why cant they just stop humiliating night elfs? Whats their problem with the race?

[Super Dickmann]

Whats their problem with the race?

It's uncanny. Every time they see an opportunity to fuck the night elves over, they take it. Someone should sneak the question in at Blizzcon.

On that note, Tyrande's chat with Shandris makes me dread to think that we were meant to actually agree with Delaryn/Sira/Sylvanas that Elune had betrayed them and they're building up to her being evil in some way.

[Nerovar]

Blizzard absolutely mastered ability to write outcomes that satisfy absolutely noone.

That's because they don't have the balls to truly anger one of the faction's playerbase by committing (for once) to the consequences of their own writing.


"Since you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to spit you out of my mouth."

[VladlTutushkin]

It's uncanny. Every time they see an opportunity to fuck the night elves over, they take it. Someone should sneak the question in at Blizzcon.

On that note, Tyrande's chat with Shandris makes me dread to think that we were meant to actually agree with Delaryn/Sira/Sylvanas that Elune had betrayed them and they're building up to her being evil in some way.

Because tearing down night elven nation, heroes, army, population and homeland wasnt enough. Now they have to destroy their religion. What will be left when they are done? Whats their narrative goal with nelfs? Also if they make Tyrande “redeem” her “blind anger” against the Horde by going against Elune... that will be worse then death.

[Mehrunes]

The fact that Anduin has a gall to chastise Tyrande while he did NOTHING to help night elfs, he didnt even used his famed “negotiations talent” to talk Thrall or Baine or Lor’Themar into giving back their lands... and meanwhile he cheers up Saurfang is beyond disgusting. The fact that genocide victims portrayed as “throwing a temper tantrum” is insane.

Anduin sent help to Darkshore five minutes after he told Tyrande he can't send help to Darkshore because the Alliance is already stretched too thin. Meaning that he overextended for the sake of the Night Elves.

Blizz might not be targeting Alliance on purpose (which they do on Blizzcons btw) but they simply neglect the faction so much that it suffers like from abuse. Best parallel will be a drunkard and his pets/children. He dosent want them dead or hurt but he is way too drunk to realize what he is doing or to care about what harm comes their way.

Yeah, the faction that is pushed again and again as the paragon of all that is awesome and a model of what a faction should be like, to the point the Horde is consistently more and more Alliance-ified whenever Blizzard decides to tout how systemically wrong the Horde is without the guidance of a teenage human twerp like Anduin is totes a victim of the story. Where are you people seeing this Horde focus and Horde's lack of neglect?

The Horde's goddamn story in this expansion is that we needed Anduin to explain to us not only what honor is about, but what the Horde itself is about. And then the anti-Alliance Horde members got lobotomized on the spot by Anduin's mere presence, forgetting their grievances against the Alliance that made them follow Sylvanas to the end in an instant. That's some mighty focus you got here. But somehow I get the feeling that if Alliance received such a focus we'd still heard tales of HORDE BIAS Outer God coming to eat us.

The Shandris thing is the most obnoxious thing since the undead night elves. Tyrande is her mother of 10k years, she's known Anduin for 3 or 4 at absolute tops and he's nobody to her. The people who burned in that tree are her people too, so are the ones who the Horde offed in their invasion, an invasion orchestrated in part by Saurfang. Yet she's prioritizing him over Tyrande and her own race. We all know there's only two ways out from here - Tyrande is turned into a patch villain for opposing the Unifaction and dies, or she decides only Nathanos and Sylvanas did anything wrong and forgives everyone else, like Jaina after her spirit quest.

Here's to hoping that just like Shandris fawning over the Rambo shit joke of a character this won't hit live.

@VladlTutushkin

Speaking of undead night elves, Delaryn and company voluntarily decide to kill their race because of their rejection despite everyone pleading with them to come back, this happening under the moon of their goddess and an avatar of her wrath. That's not enough to overcome their trauma and so they stick with Sylvanas. But the nanosecond they hear that an undead human using the holy light they've never met offers them help, they immediately reverse course and seek redemption.

Yeah, I really struggle to see what the point of turning them into "Forsaken" was in the first place. At least if they remained some of the few Forsaken still loyal to Sylvanas that would just get some bonus lulz points. Plus at least then there'd be some purpose to Sylvanas raising them to begin with.

They rarely show Alliance stuff in the game ... is part of the problem. Supposedly Gilneas was retaken, but it was really only in a book. In no real way is Gilneas back in the hand of the Alliance... same with Arathi.

Gilneas wasn't retaken in a book. In Before the Storm Genn outright said that Gilneas is home to the Forsaken.

[mysticx]

Anduin sent help to Darkshore five minutes after he told Tyrande he can't send help to Darkshore because the Alliance is already stretched too thin. Meaning that he overextended for the sake of the Night Elves.

Some heroes go there (More a gameplay decision than a story one), i spent a lot of time there to farm up those tokens for the Sentinel mount, and as far as i could see, there are no Alliance soldiers there besides Night elves and a few Worgen, because Genn told Anduin he couldn't leave the NEs to fight on their own after what they had done for the Worgen.

So Anduin did just leave them hanging, because picking a fight with the Zandalari and driving them into the Horde's arms was a far better idea, anyway.

[Soon-TM]

Blizzard double dip in fucking up night elf and forsaken fans simultaneously.

I genuinely don't understand the purpose of these characters. Why did Sylvanas even bother raising them and why was such a big deal made of their hopelessness or whatever if she was going to ditch them anyway? Did Blizzard just abort the plotline because of the backlash but then decide that they could still use this to kick the night elves while they're down so they made their change of heart be about Calia? If they weren't mind-controlled then why would they join the Horde and why would the Alliance take them back? If that was their free will and they were such messes, why didn't they stay with Sylvanas as raid fodder henchmen?

They just want to prop up their lightforged MILF no matter how.

[Maljinwo]

You know you are fucked when even troll sympathizers start to feel sorry for the Night Elf story

[VladlTutushkin]

Anduin sent help to Darkshore five minutes after he told Tyrande he can't send help to Darkshore because the Alliance is already stretched too thin. Meaning that he overextended for the sake of the Night Elves.




Yeah, the faction that is pushed again and again as the paragon of all that is awesome and a model of what a faction should be like, to the point the Horde is consistently more and more Alliance-ified whenever Blizzard decides to tout how systemically wrong the Horde is without the guidance of a teenage human twerp like Anduin is totes a victim of the story. Where are you people seeing this Horde focus and Horde's lack of neglect?

The Horde's goddamn story in this expansion is that we needed Anduin to explain to us not only what honor is about, but what the Horde itself is about. And then the anti-Alliance Horde members got lobotomized on the spot by Anduin's mere presence, forgetting their grievances against the Alliance that made them follow Sylvanas to the end in an instant. That's some mighty focus you got here. But somehow I get the feeling that if Alliance received such a focus we'd still heard tales of HORDE BIAS Outer God coming to eat us.




Here's to hoping that just like Shandris fawning over the Rambo shit joke of a character this won't hit live.




Yeah, I really struggle to see what the point of turning them into "Forsaken" was in the first place. At least if they remained some of the few Forsaken still loyal to Sylvanas that would just get some bonus lulz points. Plus at least then there'd be some purpose to Sylvanas raising them to begin with.




Gilneas wasn't retaken in a book. In Before the Storm Genn outright said that Gilneas is home to the Forsaken.

You can try and throw sarcasm around all you like but there IS Horde bias and while it might vary in degree it is a present fact.

[Super Dickmann]

Yeah, I really struggle to see what the point of turning them into "Forsaken" was in the first place. At least if they remained some of the few Forsaken still loyal to Sylvanas that would just get some bonus lulz points. Plus at least then there'd be some purpose to Sylvanas raising them to begin with.

The whole bit about hope or lack thereof as a criterion was never intended, far as I see it. I.e, Sylvanas was not meant to take anyone with her the way we know she does some Dark Rangers in the loyalist version as the loyalist quests weren't supposed to happen. So while following her rationale in that quest, the undead night elves would be as hopeless as it gets and be viable followers, given that they were willing to off their kin because they were so sad, that rationale, much like that quest, was never meant to be available. Which only makes it more nonsensical why Delaryn was raised and had so many parallels with Sylvanas in the first place if she was just going to find jesus with Calia. Except more character shilling for that execrable Purity Sue, I mean.

[Mehrunes]

You can try and throw sarcasm around all you like but there IS Horde bias and while it might vary in degree it is a present fact.

Ah, there IS? I guess CAPS makes it a "present fact". Mea culpa

[VladlTutushkin]

Ah, there IS? I guess CAPS makes it a "present fact". Mea culpa

How sublimely condescending. I simply do not wish to dive into a text-wall argument with you since you are the type of person who considers any yellow liquid being lemonade even when it comes not from a bottle at all.

[Nathreim]

Because in the end even with Saurfang's army they didn't have the forces to defeat rest of the Horde. The victory at Zandalar came too late the Alliance military was already on its last legs according to Genn.

With the destruction of the Alliance fleet they lost the only chance at winning the war.

[Mehrunes]

How sublimely condescending. I simply do not wish to dive into a text-wall argument with you since you are the type of person who considers any yellow liquid being lemonade even when it comes not from a bottle at all.

What wall of text argument? My previous reply to you was whooping two paragraphs long. So let's be honest here. You don't want to enter into any argument. As that would showcase that you don't actually have one. Because what you've got is an inane conspiracy theory that you have zero real evidence for.

And the remark in bold would make much more sense and have much more validity to it if it didn't come from someone who sees """""proof""""" of HORDE BIAS under every virtual rock in WoW. To the point where an expansion that made the Horde lose a war with the Alliance, Alliance-ified all its races, turned all its remaining leaders into Alliance's boot-lickers and is going to make an Alliance-leaning character like Calia a replacement for Sylvanas as Forsaken racial leader is somehow chief example of aforementioned HORDE BIAS. Right next to Cataclysm giving some Alliance's zones to the Horde (even though that was done in order to fix an actual zone imbalance that favored of the Alliance). But since it did, that remark is essentially meaningless. And rather ironic.

[VladlTutushkin]

What wall of text argument? My previous reply to you was whooping two paragraphs long. So let's be honest here. You don't want to enter into any argument. As that would showcase that you don't actually have one. Because what you've got is an inane conspiracy theory that you have zero real evidence for.

And the remark in bold would make much more sense and have much more validity to it if it didn't come from someone who sees """""proof""""" of HORDE BIAS under every virtual rock in WoW. To the point where an expansion that made the Horde lose a war with the Alliance, Alliance-ified all its races, turned all its remaining leaders into Alliance's boot-lickers and is going to make an Alliance-leaning character like Calia a replacement for Sylvanas as Forsaken racial leader is somehow chief example of aforementioned HORDE BIAS. Right next to Cataclysm giving some Alliance's zones to the Horde (even though that was done in order to fix an actual zone imbalance that favored of the Alliance). But since it did, that remark is essentially meaningless. And rather ironic.

Yeah nice “loss” for the Horde when Alliance apparently was so weak they couldnt even defeat Sylvans forces alone and had to beg Horde Rebels for help. Also how Anduin betrayed his allies and sold them out with his “peace” while also forgiving all atrocities in one gesture.

[Mehrunes]

Yeah nice “loss” for the Horde when Alliance apparently was so weak they couldnt even defeat Sylvans forces alone and had to beg Horde Rebels for help. Also how Anduin betrayed his allies and sold them out with his “peace” while also forgiving all atrocities in one gesture.

Do notice how at now point have I said anything about the story for the Alliance being particularly better. But I guess in the choice between "the story is overall shit" and "the story for the Horde is oh, so amazing and the only reason why it isn't the case for the Alliance is a conspiracy by Blizzard" the latter makes more sense.

[Arrashi]

Ah, there IS? I guess CAPS makes it a "present fact". Mea culpa

I dunno why but everytime alliance posters talk about "horde bias" and are dead serious i have mental imagine of alex jones in alliance shirt.