How much is too much? (Corpse Camping)

[Merin]

Whatever the rules allow.

WoW world pvp has been featureless, half finished nonsense since release, MMOs that came out in the 90s had more functionality. WoWs only real non-regressions were quest to cap and instances so I’d temper expectations with the game design rather than blame others.

Players will usually push what they can get away with. This conversation has been occurring for 15 years now.

[Geognosis]

Hello, I know nothing at all. But just to throw some cedar planks on the fire. Remember when the guild Serenity rekt the everloving shit out of a role-play funeral over a real life death. If those reading don't know, you tube the video, funny as hell. But basically a guild trashed this funeral procession of people all dressed up to the nine. Holy shit they got destroyed. First time i saw this video with over 5 million views i hurt from laughing so hard. They got banned!! Cant remember the total ban but it happened. I am not making a point at all just stirring the pot of boring as hell conversation i found myself reading at work....have fun.......go watch the video

[Charge me Doctor]

Just to be clear, I believe your whole story is completely made up with no proof.

At this point you sound like history denier. Stuff happened, there are recordings of this, you simply refuse to believe it but keep arguing on the topic.

[Boostab]

100% I agree with your statement.

[Zyky]

Source please. People here have been claiming blizz said this. Blizz said that, but arkanon has been the only person to provide actual proof.

I literally did, go back and find it instead of quoting me to make me repost it.

[Charge me Doctor]

And because corpse camping a.k.a killing someone multiple time on a short time is pvp, a dick move, but still pvp. But as soon as you do it for a prolonged time, a.k.a several hours/days.etc... it can be griefing, and Blizzard can look into it and may act and punish.

I like how this ongoing "conversation" started with one guy saying that "you can't be banned even if you camp someone 24/7 or bring 120 players into a location and spend a week in it" which ARE the examples of things you actually CAN be banned for on a PvP settings, blizzard blueposts confirm that they are investigating those cases of players being unreasoably camped, there is this ruinous gaming guild who used to get into all sorts of stories on tichondrius (iirc) server involving players being banned for zone disruption (as in parking their sorry asses in a location, denying access to another faction for a ridiculous amount of time and lagging the server down the drain).

But some people keep linking "camping is allowed" FAQ, being completely oblivious that corpse camping can be a form of harassment, and blizzard GMs do investigate those cases, which is confirmed by multiple blue posts
1
2
3
This conversation constantly gets brought up almost every year

- - - Updated - - -

I literally did, go back and find it instead of quoting me to make me repost it.

I like how some posters can actually go "lalala, can't see it" and keep asking for sources.

[Ragedaug]

Sorry for no snip, on phone. I think this is everything I have been saying, put together in one very well formed post.

If people used any other word - frustrating, annoying, childish, anything other than griefing, it would be fine. But in this context, griefing is a very specific word with very specific meanings. People are doing mental gymnastics over something very clearly outlined by blizzard. Their deff of what IS griefing is quite vague, so they have added a few examples of things that are never griefing, and corpse camping / killing lowbies is mentioned specifically for a reason.

In those quotes Blizzard is actually leaving it intentionally vague. The say "griefing" is against the rules, but give no definition for what it means. They later clarified a little in a Blue post by saying if someone targets you for a few days in a row to report it so they would look into it. So even that is vague, as they would need to look into it to see if it is or not.

So based on what they said, someone would need to be targeting you for a minimum of a few days for it to be potentially considered griefing.

So I'm mostly picking hairs here, but I just wanted to note that Blizzard did not clearly or specifically define what the term "griefing" means, and I suspect they did that on purpose.

[arkanon]

In those quotes Blizzard is actually leaving it intentionally vague. The say "griefing" is against the rules, but give no definition for what it means. They later clarified a little in a Blue post by saying if someone targets you for a few days in a row to report it so they would look into it. So even that is vague, as they would need to look into it to see if it is or not.

So based on what they said, someone would need to be targeting you for a minimum of a few days for it to be potentially considered griefing.

So I'm mostly picking hairs here, but I just wanted to note that Blizzard did not clearly or specifically define what the term "griefing" means, and I suspect they did that on purpose.

Yup, and i have acknowledged this a few times and thought i was quite clear, but obviously not. What i should have said was very specific word with very specific results. And you are absolutely right that it would be intentional on their part. What is extremely specific though, is when Blizzard state that corpse camping and killing low lvl players will NEVER be actioned by a GM.

- - - Updated - - -

I like how this ongoing "conversation" started with one guy saying that "you can't be banned even if you camp someone 24/7 or bring 120 players into a location and spend a week in it" which ARE the examples of things you actually CAN be banned for on a PvP settings, blizzard blueposts confirm that they are investigating those cases of players being unreasoably camped, there is this ruinous gaming guild who used to get into all sorts of stories on tichondrius (iirc) server involving players being banned for zone disruption (as in parking their sorry asses in a location, denying access to another faction for a ridiculous amount of time and lagging the server down the drain).

But some people keep linking "camping is allowed" FAQ, being completely oblivious that corpse camping can be a form of harassment, and blizzard GMs do investigate those cases, which is confirmed by multiple blue posts
1
2
3
This conversation constantly gets brought up almost every year

- - - Updated - - -



I like how some posters can actually go "lalala, can't see it" and keep asking for sources.

How on earth do you extrapolate "we might investigate" into "we will and have taken action against accounts for corpse camping"?????

The bans you mention have NOTHING to do with pvp or corpse camping. At all. Why do people keep bringing that up? it had nothing to do with corpse camping or pvp.

[Ragedaug]

Thank you for admitting that you use extreme hyperbole to try to strengthen your case. You say you are wrong. I say you are wrong. We are in agreement

I didn't admit to using extreme hyperbole, but I'm guessing you knew that. I didn't say I'm wrong, so does that make you a liar? Could it be that you just read it wrong? Not sure. But based on your response and the blatant falsehoods in it, it seems like you are here to fight and not talk. So I'll just hope things get better for you.

- - - Updated - - -

Yup, and i have acknowledged this a few times and thought i was quite clear, but obviously not. What i should have said was very specific word with very specific results. And you are absolutely right that it would be intentional on their part. What is extremely specific though, is when Blizzard state that corpse camping and killing low lvl players will NEVER be actioned by a GM.

You are almost completely correct in everything you say, but then throw out a statement like "Blizzard state that corpse camping and killing low lvl players will NEVER be actioned by a GM" which is clearly false. Blizzard has never stated that. I've only seen you state that. Blizzard was pretty clear in their clarification, and I thought it was you that provided that Blue post. If you are corpse camping someone for days, then it potentially become griefing, and a GM may action the camper/griefer based on the results of their investigation.

[arkanon]

You are almost completely correct in everything you say, but then throw out a statement like "Blizzard state that corpse camping and killing low lvl players will NEVER be actioned by a GM" which is clearly false. Blizzard has never stated that. I've only seen you state that. Blizzard was pretty clear in their clarification, and I thought it was you that provided that Blue post. If you are corpse camping someone for days, then it potentially become griefing, and a GM may action the camper/griefer based on the results of their investigation.

https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/10184

"The following actions may be considered dishonorable but are considered legitimate PvP tactics and will not be addressed by our Game Master staff:

Corpse camping
Killing players well below your level"


Last updated 2 days ago.

[Ragedaug]

https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/10184

"The following actions may be considered dishonorable but are considered legitimate PvP tactics and will not be addressed by our Game Master staff:

Corpse camping
Killing players well below your level"


Last updated 2 days ago.

https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/...d-for-ganking/

That said, we don't abide is players deliberately trying to ruin the enjoyment of others; it is a game after all. If someone made it their mission to constantly kill another player (e.g., following them around and killing them whenever they're online, day after day, over a long period time), that could make it extremely difficult for the victim to play.

At that point it stops being PvP and becomes harassment. We'd want to hear about it and would, at the very least, look into the matter.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...650621#post-12

If someone is specifically targeting a player over a long period of time, we may look into the matter and it is possible that we would take action based on the situation.


------
edit: sorry, not sure why we are making the big letters, but I saw you did it and hope it helps you.

[arkanon]

https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/...d-for-ganking/

That said, we don't abide is players deliberately trying to ruin the enjoyment of others; it is a game after all. If someone made it their mission to constantly kill another player (e.g., following them around and killing them whenever they're online, day after day, over a long period time), that could make it extremely difficult for the victim to play.

At that point it stops being PvP and becomes harassment. We'd want to hear about it and would, at the very least, look into the matter.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...650621#post-12

If someone is specifically targeting a player over a long period of time, we may look into the matter and it is possible that we would take action based on the situation.


------
edit: sorry, not sure why we are making the big letters, but I saw you did it and hope it helps you.

Remember when you said they had NEVER said it? What happened?

[Ragedaug]

Remember when you said they had NEVER said it? What happened?

They never said it. That is what happened.

What Blizzard did say is:
Corpse camping and Killing players well below your level will not be addressed by our Game Master staff.

What Blizzard did not say is:
corpse camping and killing low lvl players will NEVER be actioned by a GM


Because when Blizzard was asked that very question, to clarify, in the threads that both you and I have quoted, they said there can be a point where corpse camping can become unreasonable, at which points it ceases to be "PVP" and becomes "Harassment". That is the point as which Blizzard may take action against corpse camping.

So based on what Blizzard themselves said, they may action a person if they corpse camp to an unreasonable degree.

[arkanon]

They never said it. That is what happened.

What Blizzard did say is:
Corpse camping and Killing players well below your level will not be addressed by our Game Master staff.

What Blizzard did not say is:
corpse camping and killing low lvl players will NEVER be actioned by a GM


Because when Blizzard was asked that very question, to clarify, in the threads that both you and I have quoted, they said there can be a point where corpse camping can become unreasonable, at which points it ceases to be "PVP" and becomes "Harassment". That is the point as which Blizzard may take action against corpse camping.

So based on what Blizzard themselves said, they may action a person if they corpse camp to an unreasonable degree.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that "will not be addressed" is different to "will never be addressed"?

[Ragedaug]

Are you seriously trying to suggest that "will not be addressed" is different to "will never be addressed"?

Yes. Because after they said it will not be addressed. People were like, "say whaaaaaat???" and Blizz was all like, "we meant to say in most cases but in some we may take action".

So you see, the key part is Blizzard clarified their original statement with a newer clarifying statement. Which is to say their "will not be addressed" statement was not precise, as in to say they left out 'normal' in their "[normal] corpse camping will not be addressed", which they clarified by saying "unreasonable corpse camping may be addressed".

[arkanon]

Yes. Because after they said it will not be addressed. People were like, "say whaaaaaat???" and Blizz was all like, "we meant to say in most cases but in some we may take action".

So you see, the key part is Blizzard clarified their original statement with a newer clarifying statement. Which is to say their "will not be addressed" statement was not precise, as in to say they left out 'normal' in their "[normal] corpse camping will not be addressed", which they clarified by saying "unreasonable corpse camping may be addressed".

Last updated 2 days ago. Seems pretty recent.

[StayTuned]

Meh, when I kill someone, I don't camp them unless they deserve it. You gotta do something really fucked up to me to get camped. Like, killing me when I'm fighting mobs in an area you well know how fucking far it is to walk back.

Then I'll camp you once or twice. And then I'll leave you alone.


On the other hand, I was only once so far camped by a hunter who was waiting in n8elf stealth around my corpse. after he killed me thrice I called for help in /1 and then we ganked him all the way out of the area.


As long as you don't go out of your way to snipe someone forever, I don't see it as a general problem. If someone is camping you, a lot of people are willing to help in /1.

[Wickedtongue]

Hello, I know nothing at all. But just to throw some cedar planks on the fire. Remember when the guild Serenity rekt the everloving shit out of a role-play funeral over a real life death. If those reading don't know, you tube the video, funny as hell. But basically a guild trashed this funeral procession of people all dressed up to the nine. Holy shit they got destroyed. First time i saw this video with over 5 million views i hurt from laughing so hard. They got banned!! Cant remember the total ban but it happened. I am not making a point at all just stirring the pot of boring as hell conversation i found myself reading at work....have fun.......go watch the video

Nice try. Absolutely nothing happened to Serenity Now for that, other than fame, but nice try.

[Necromantic]

Are you seriously trying to suggest that "will not be addressed" is different to "will never be addressed"?

I can agree with this statement. Blizzard has changed stances on things before. I never thought speaking against a streamer would be an actual offense but here we are.

[arkanon]

I can agree with this statement. Blizzard has changed stances on things before. I never thought speaking against a streamer would be an actual offense but here we are.

Yes they have, which is why we should always rely on their most recent statement, and the one I linked was updated 2 days ago at the time of posting.