Bolvar as Lich King, and the Cataclysm Schtick

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Diatribe

LLLLLLLLLLLLLMFAOOOO jesus what a world .. what a world I don't belong in

Should be interesting to see said character changes going forward since everything's fine with Bolvar.

I've longed to see him how you do.

[Sliske]

So when Fall of the Lich King came out, I'm pretty sure I was 9 years old, nearly 10 that month.
I'm including that because I felt back then even as a kid I could see through BS here and there where it mattered to me, and WoW mattered a lot.

As many of you surely know, Catacylsm was announced before Wrath of the Lich King had come to it's narrative completion, and upon 3.3's release and the reveal of the end cinematic.. One thing became abundantly clear to 9 year old me.

Bolvar and the Lich King were made fiery to hype up Catacylsm. *?*

I don't know how so many years later I feel like I'm the only one who got this impression. Not saying I'm right, I'm wondering if I'm seriously wrong or not. I understand now that Bolvar was infused with the Life-Binder's flames, and that the Life Magic is what's keeping him ... alive? Undead?

I just remember it being extremely silly! I still wonder what on earth they can do with Bolvar as a serious version of the Lich King. It was as if they put a cork on the LK for good by just demolishing the character's visual themes.

Especially the Crown's jewel turning orange with Bolvar dawning it.

Now perhaps this was to show that BOLVAR was in control.. NOT the Lich King... So, the question lefts to be begged in my mind.. Will Bolvar change colour again to a more blue/green "Soulflame" like Bwonsamdi visually has around him for example?

Or are all of you perfectly understanding of why he's fiery? Because I really really suspect it was a marketing ploy, and they didn't plan on doing anything with Bolvar or the LK again back then.

This has to be a troll. Its just too stupid not to be.

Bolvar was fiery because his body was literally burnt to a crisp by the Red Dragonflight. Watch the Wrathgate cinematic. When the dragons arrive and burn the plague away, he is in that fire.

It turning orange is just to signify that this isn't simply Arthas again. More importantly, lets say it was just the original blue helmet and full blue armor. Thats not very interesting is it? It reminds me of people who paid for a race change to be a mag'har orc, then wear full plate armor with the helmet on, so its literally impossible to tell that they are mag'har.

Bolvar, as far as we know, was / is in control, however we can see cracks in his psyche as time as went on. First it was a heroic act, then he started suggesting he would kill people that came near him, then he started trying to dominate Archerus, then it was raising red dragons and raiding their sanctuary. Its all coming to a head soon.

Cataclysm had literally *nothing* to do with Bolvar being fiery. That shit is as retarded as saying they were hyping up WoTLK by having Kil'jaedin be the final boss of TBC.

Expansions had no connections prior to MoP > WoD. They were seperate, almost alternate dimensions. No one cares what happened in TBC while in Northrend. No one in Cataclysm references Northrend. The first hint at a continuous storyline was Wrathion, really. Thats it.

[Audrenalyn]

bruh aint no way you were thinking 'this is totally building hype for cataclysm' at 9. I was like 13 and just thought 'worgens are neat, ima make a hunter'

[Cyram]

I've always thought that they chose Bolvar being burnt and tortured to have a stark contrast with the previous Lich King - Arthas was an icy, privileged prince, while Bolvar is a charred, tortured paladin - Ice and Fire, and all that.

... but I guess it was all a marketing strategy to hype up the following expansion. /s

[Archmage Xaxxas]

I've always thought that they chose Bolvar being burnt and tortured to have a stark contrast with the previous Lich King - Arthas was an icy, privileged prince, while Bolvar is a charred, tortured paladin - Ice and Fire, and all that.

That's a good idea as to what they were thinking.

[Soluna]

You mistake me for someone else. I've never been one to shit on them and I'm still not. That being said, I'm not blind to the nonsense in this world and I actively search for cover ups. Call me paranoid, but don't take it further than that.

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Over the course of the thread I've understood that it was potentially Frostmourne's Blue coloured Necromantic/Death Magic that influenced the Blue theme for Arthas, and the Death Knights ingame. With Frostmourne shattered, it could make sense that Bolvar's magic is able to inhabit the crown instead.

So will Bolvar's Death Knights have fiery eyes?

But you basically made the most retarded assumption ever, and when people try to say 'No, that's not what blizzard intended', you try to argue with it by using the 'blizzard is bad at stuff' card. Like holy shit dude.

[Houle]

As others have said, Bolvar being a fried, burning dude is bc of the red dragons fire.
The one thing that wasn't explained is why the crown changed colour when he put it on, and its unlikely we'll ever get a real ingame explanation for that.
They changed the colour of the crown bc of 2 things:
-to make the new Lk look as different as possible compared to Arthas
-bc a grey helmet with a blue gem would look strange on a completely red and yellow burning dude

[THEORACLE64]

Naw dude. You think blizzard is that in depth and thoughtful?

Free Hong Kong.

wow so edgy. edgElorD2004 here.

[Piamonte]

The video doesn't appear to mention the Lich King and Ner'zhul as two separate people. It simply refers to him first by title and then by name.

Saying "The Prince's young death knight has been performing well... almost too well. I begin to wonder if Arthas has ulterior motives for his new... champion." Would not imply that "The Prince" and "Arthas" are two different entities; only that one is a title and the other is his name.

Kel'Thuzad was already a wicked necromancer obsessed with undeath who swore himself to the Lich King at Icecrown. There's also a heavy implication in the Naxxramas trailer that he was raised into undeath in Icecrown prior to becoming a Lich at the Sunwell. This means that every interaction we viewed with Kel'Thuzad in Warcraft 3 would have been with an undead Kel'Thuzad.

Another important aspect is the deadening of emotions upon undeath is a general rule. It doesn't need to apply to every person who goes into undeath in order for the rule to hold.

In the case of Faol specifically, the developers addressed in Ask Devs Round 2 that undead who make consistent use of the light tend to feel more emotion than others:




Another reference is this twitter post regarding the general lack of positive emotion death knights feel:

https://twitter.com/MickyNeilson/sta...86516497047552

There are various other references to this which can be tracked down as well. The overall point being that undeath has an established restrictive effect on one's ability to feel positive emotions which varies from person-to-person in intensity and can be mitigated to an extent by the holy light.

However, a shift in positive emotion does not also constitute an immediate shift in personality. Although emotions make up a large portion of how people feel, think, and act, there are plenty of other considerations which can be taken into account.

Keep in mind, Bolvar's drastic personality shift was observable after he had spent several years living on the throne in isolation, in a state of undeath which enhances negative emotions which dampening positive ones, and entered that state after spending months of being tortured by Arthas after being nearly burned to death by dragon fire. He has not had anything good happen to him since the Wrathgate.

Again, to reiterate, I'm not discounting the possibility of a separate consciousness within the Crown of Domination; just pointing out we have never received any real evidence pointing toward the existence of one, and there exists a plethora of other explanations for what has happened to Bolvar in the interim.

isnt the common consensus that Bolvar isnt dead??

[Piamonte]

That's an interesting point which I've never considered.

He was alive at the end of Wrath, but I'd imagined he slipped into undeath the same way Arthas did: through passive exposure to consistently high levels of necromancy.

He's classified as an Undead in the quest "Jailor of the Damned" from 8.1:

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=146986/the-lich-king

arthas became undead because frostmourne took his soul.

But Bolvar never did, because it was destroyed, he was at the bridge between life and death and then was kept alive by the dragon´s flame.

Thats wowhead, not blizzard.

[rhorle]

Wowhead is citing the in-game classification used during the quest; Blizzard are the ones who labeled Bolvar as an undead when they made the quest. It could be an oversight, but it's certainly evidence.

That doesn't really mean much since what things are classified as mechanically are not always what they are in lore. There is really nothing to make Bolvar an undead unless he wants to become one. The Matthias quests in ICG imply that Arthas willingly gave up his heart/humanity to become something else. Bolvar has been set up to be something beyond mortal already.

He could very well be an undead now. There really isn't a classification for him since he is not really living and not really the typical undead.

[Sylv_]

good job immediately turning this post in to political bait

Thanks.
The matter is of extreme importance and every opportunity available should be taken to bring light to the topic.

Maybe I should have added a future-tense to the subject with something along the lines of, "the rest of the world's future freedom also depends on Hong Kong's freedom."

Don't yall see the new Nazi Germany forming? JFC.

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lol its funny when all people i meat are trying to avoid politics talks but then the same people go that thing on the internet...

Want to try a coherent statement? Not flaming, I just did not understand a lick of what you said.

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wow so edgy. edgElorD2004 here.

How the fuck is it being edgy? You consider an extremely serious political matter to be edge? Bruh.
This political matter has the potential to affect the next fifty-something years of our future.

Bow to China and let atrocities happen now, and then what?

Like really, then fucking what?

Do people not legit understand the connotations behind what is going on right now?
Are people looking at this like it's a singular isolated issue?

The fhindsight is going to be extremely painful as the rest of the world's civil liberties start to vanish.

Call me an edgelord when one day you are told what you are allowed to say.

[Aucald]

This is not the subforum for real-world politics of any kind, head to the Politics forum if you want to discuss real-world politics and political controversies.

[Heldamon]

The helm changed color because he had early access to transmogrification

[Powerogue]

He was a late change to the story when they decided to go with him instead of Tirion as the new Lich King.

I do wonder what that would've been like. We wouldn't have gotten the siege of the paladin order hall, for one.

I don't think it was related to cata at all.

[Radaney]

I think it was just to make Arthas-King and Bolvar-King not completely samey.

[Ringthane]

Especially the Crown's jewel turning orange with Bolvar dawning it.
.

Man, I'm getting old. It took me a while but:

Donning.

Not Dawning.

Infracted.

[Margamanthak]

So when Fall of the Lich King came out, I'm pretty sure I was 9 years old, nearly 10 that month.
I'm including that because I felt back then even as a kid I could see through BS here and there where it mattered to me, and WoW mattered a lot.

As many of you surely know, Catacylsm was announced before Wrath of the Lich King had come to it's narrative completion, and upon 3.3's release and the reveal of the end cinematic.. One thing became abundantly clear to 9 year old me.

Bolvar and the Lich King were made fiery to hype up Catacylsm. *?*

I don't know how so many years later I feel like I'm the only one who got this impression. Not saying I'm right, I'm wondering if I'm seriously wrong or not. I understand now that Bolvar was infused with the Life-Binder's flames, and that the Life Magic is what's keeping him ... alive? Undead?

I just remember it being extremely silly! I still wonder what on earth they can do with Bolvar as a serious version of the Lich King. It was as if they put a cork on the LK for good by just demolishing the character's visual themes.

Especially the Crown's jewel turning orange with Bolvar dawning it.

Now perhaps this was to show that BOLVAR was in control.. NOT the Lich King... So, the question lefts to be begged in my mind.. Will Bolvar change colour again to a more blue/green "Soulflame" like Bwonsamdi visually has around him for example?

Or are all of you perfectly understanding of why he's fiery? Because I really really suspect it was a marketing ploy, and they didn't plan on doing anything with Bolvar or the LK again back then.

No, Bolvar Lich King's design was not intended to hype up Cataclysm in any way. However, if we're going to talk about design choices...

In halls of Lightning, in Loken's chamber, there is a globe of azeroth. Kalimdor, on that globe, has an interesting design feature, in that it is almost split in half. The design, at the time looked utterly ridiculous. Then Cataclysm happened and Thousand Needles got flooded. This orb, to me, was a prediction of the changes to azeroth that Deathwing would bring, even if its wonky design is far too outlandish for Kalimdor's actual design post-Cataclysm.

[Steelcryo]

The way I always took it was that the life binders flames were what cleansed him of the plague, but also left him in some kind of half life state. Which is why he could be the Lich King, not only could he not rejoin the living world in that state, but the same power that cleansed the plague, also gave him the power to resist the corruption that comes with being the Lich King.

So seeing that, I had the opposite thought, I thought they always planned to use him again. Otherwise why make the flames part of it, why not just make him practically dying and so he had no life left to live, so he might as well become the Lich King which would not only keep him alive, but also give him reason to freeze himself. It would have been much simpler. Felt too complex to just leave doing nothing for ever.

[Sanguinerd]

I always thought that since Ner'zhul fused with Arthas to become "The Lich King" the helm of domination no longer held his spirit therefor Bolvar is just Bolvar and the helm changes accordingly since it still is a magical item. Then again.. Arthas reverted back to his old self when he was defeated and saw only darkness.

But if Ner'zhul WAS still in that helm, wouldn't that mean part of Arthas would be in there too now?! So it's Ner'Bolvarthas really. Or maybe the helm is just empty and it's just one of those "corrupts the user" kind of deals.

Doubt it had anything to do with Cataclysm though.