View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. This poll is closed
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #22641
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    my bad sorry, the 500 pages were including the protocols and signatures and useless blabla, so you can trim it down to 200 or so, but it's still a chunky document that covers much more than you usually see in other constitutions.
    https://europa.eu/european-union/sit..._europe_en.pdf

    It was ambitious and necessary, which is why they passed it as a Treaty when France and the Netherlands rejected it, but you can't really expect people to read something like that and cast an informed vote.
    Well, yes, it is 200 pages. But I'd argue that in today's times, with modern constitutions, it's not that uncommon. We know a lot more about how to structure... let's call it country-like entities. As I said before, you don't get away with slapping a constitution on one page and call it a day. Too many loopholes.
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  2. #22642
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Well, yes, it is 200 pages. But I'd argue that in today's times, with modern constitutions, it's not that uncommon. We know a lot more about how to structure... let's call it country-like entities. As I said before, you don't get away with slapping a constitution on one page and call it a day. Too many loopholes.
    It makes sense that it should be longer than a regular one. I question however the wisdom of having 40 pages laying out internal policies and then calling it a constitution.

    Anyway, that's a bit of pointless bickering. It came into force anyway under another name, and that's good. This was just another example of "don't ask the people stuff they won't read and digest themselves because somebody will weaponize it" just like a Brexit referendum.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Is this what it has come to?

    'Getting seriously worried that HMG will pull Bill if Programme Motion is defeated. Surely best for all of us who regard this deal as the least of the evils to vote for the Programme Motion, whatever we really think of it.'

    https://twitter.com/oletwinofficial/...59454118514690

    Don't worry that the bill might be shit - vote for it anyway!
    Looks like another day in the Commons from that side of the pond XD

  3. #22643
    Brexit bill clears its first hurdle as MPs back the deal by 329 to 299 - but key timetable vote is yet to come

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-p...ments-50136270

  4. #22644
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    It's the technocratic conundrum.

    Society and systems (in all domains) are becoming more complex, harder to understand for laymen, and thus easier to be explained and portrayed as dysfunctional by populists.

    The only thing holding back human progress right now is the median human education.
    This is so important to realize.
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  5. #22645
    Damn MPs should have called his bluff and voted against it. Anything short of keeping full free movement and in the 4 freedoms need to be rejected out of principle.

  6. #22646
    The timetable bill has been rejected! 322-308

  7. #22647
    I didn't expect the bill itself to make it, but the timetable failed.
    So now the UK waits for the EU to decide to give a small extension?

    well congratulations to the UK parliament to decide on something for the first time.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  8. #22648
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Johnson gets his first division victory before going back to the standard practice of losing.
    Ex-Mod. Technically retired, they just won't let me quit.

  9. #22649
    I would be so much more happier if you lot had gone already. No matter the problems it might bring, just END IT AND FUCKING GO.

    Then it would be just YOUR shitshow and OUR shitshow we need to think about.
    "It's just like I always said! You can do battle with strength, you can do battle with wits, but no weapon can beat a great pair of tits!"

  10. #22650
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    I didn't expect the bill itself to make it, but the timetable failed.
    So now the UK waits for the EU to decide to give a small extension?

    well congratulations to the UK parliament to decide on something for the first time.
    I guess that warrants a slowclap? Good job UK!

  11. #22651
    Quote Originally Posted by tumppu View Post
    I would be so much more happier if you lot had gone already. No matter the problems it might bring, just END IT AND FUCKING GO.

    Then it would be just YOUR shitshow and OUR shitshow we need to think about.
    We would first have to deal with the aftermath of an uncontrolled no deal shitshow, which would be the mother of all shitshows. Clearly nobody wants that so we are riding the lesser shitshow instead.

  12. #22652
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tumppu View Post
    I would be so much more happier if you lot had gone already. No matter the problems it might bring, just END IT AND FUCKING GO.

    Then it would be just YOUR shitshow and OUR shitshow we need to think about.
    How though? That's the bit no one can agree on.
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  13. #22653
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Only a three week extension?

    You’re all thinking: another extension. I am thinking: another three weeks listening to Farage

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/s...691009/photo/1

    Ah well Boris can take his bill off pause in 2 weeks time and parliament gets even less time to amend it. Result.
    13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"

  14. #22654
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Only a three week extension?

    You’re all thinking: another extension. I am thinking: another three weeks listening to Farage

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/s...691009/photo/1

    Ah well Boris can take his bill off pause in 2 weeks time and parliament gets even less time to amend it. Result.
    It's not up to nigel or guy, and BoJo's request is until january.

  15. #22655
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Only a three week extension?

    You’re all thinking: another extension. I am thinking: another three weeks listening to Farage

    https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/s...691009/photo/1

    Ah well Boris can take his bill off pause in 2 weeks time and parliament gets even less time to amend it. Result.
    Donald Tusk seems to be up for accepting the UK's request for an extension, presumably this is until Jan 31st as set out BJ's non-signed letter

    'Following PM @BorisJohnson’s decision to pause the process of ratification of the Withdrawal Agreement, and in order to avoid a no-deal #Brexit, I will recommend the EU27 accept the UK request for an extension. For this I will propose a written procedure.'

    https://twitter.com/eucopresident/st...37952313004032


    ...and I think that tweet from Verhofstadt was supposed to be a joke..

  16. #22656
    Titan draykorinee's Avatar
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    Fuck my life, this shit won't be done by Christmas? Just so sick of this.

  17. #22657
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Fuck my life, this shit won't be done by Christmas? Just so sick of this.
    Just hang in there. You've got ten years of free trade negotiations coming after this is dealt with.

  18. #22658
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Just hang in there. You've got ten years of free trade negotiations coming after this is dealt with.
    Oh yes short of revoking article 50 completely this is not going to be done for a decade or more. The initial brexit acceptance would just be the start of the long process of putting everything back into place that is needed so if people are sick of this brexit stuff then they are in for a surprise.

  19. #22659
    This pic seems to say it all:


  20. #22660
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Fuck my life, this shit won't be done by Christmas? Just so sick of this.
    Nope, just to cheer you up a little even if Johnson gets deal through we could be having exactly the same the conversation at the end of the transition period! Great, innit!

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